Comparison of contemporary US Wings to Licensed Cooper...
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It seems to me that someone with your 'push' (from all that I've read from you) that you should be able to at the least get an insight into what David Hack himself has in mind concerning these "discrepancies" by simply asking him. Maybe I'm naive as to the way things really work, but whenever talking to him over the phone as a mere customer, I never got the impression that he was someone to mince words and was more than willing to explain exactly what he thinks, and, or why he does things. Of course, sending him some of your examples or pictures wouldn't hurt if he was willing to consider your input. Git-R-Done!_ wrote:I’ve managed to get my hands on a US Wings Indy Jones that purportedly shipped to its owner last December. I have to say I am surprised (not a "good" surprised, a "bad" surprise). I have compared it to a few examples I have in various closets and boxes around the house and have a list of discrepancies. What am I going to do with them? Might send them to David Hack or I may just finish my write-up and outline them there…
Buck-up Cowboy, for $90 I certainly wouldn't knit pick any of this, it's seriously unreasonable to expect perfection from just an awesome deal. Full price on the other hand is a different story though.
Also, note that the current US Wings jackets have leather faceing behind the zippers (inside the jacket) that should not be there if originallity is expected..see this thread : viewtopic.php?t=21259
Doug C
Also, note that the current US Wings jackets have leather faceing behind the zippers (inside the jacket) that should not be there if originallity is expected..see this thread : viewtopic.php?t=21259
Doug C
Friend, we are all Big boys (and girls) here. You have done a stellar job my friend..........Heck, had I not even read your post.......I would not be smart enough to know what SA is.... Your welcome by my (in my non SA jackets) fire any time.....COWBOY_ wrote:See, now this is the part that hurts... I know that this is not your intention, and I appreciate the caveat about what you paid, but it is why I get a bit animated about the topic of "what do you really know" about this stuff... I am sorry about you buying it. If you decide to return it, I'll cover the postage you have to eat - please...Cowboy wrote:Great I just bought a US last week. (OK, it was only $89, but) :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: . Dang you _
- Technonut
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My U.S Wings Imported goatskin is very close to a Wested LC that was made last December.... The U.S. Wings is a size large, and the Wested LC a 42R...Cowboy wrote:Does this mean that the photo on the website is wrong? Hey technonut- how does your's compare?
Storm Flap
Wested: 1.5"
USW: 1.5"
Pockets
Wested: 8.5" L x 7" w
USW: 8.5" L x 6 3/4" w
Collar Stand Width
Wested: 1 1/4"
USW: 1 1/4"
Pleat Depth
Wested: 2 3/8"
USW: 1 3/8"
Lower Collar Seam To Yoke
Wested: 6 1/4"
USW 7 1/4"
Back Panel Width (Top)
Wested: 19"
USW: 18"
Back Panel Width (Bottom)
Wested: 17"
USW: 15"
- Technonut
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Here are a couple of seam pics....
U.S Wings
Wested LC
As you can see, the USW sleeve seam lines-up with the sideseam. The Wested sleeve seam is WAY turned to the left in the pic... (That is just a crease, and not a seam by the sideseam) This causes the seam to practically run along my forearms when reaching out. The USW does NOT do this.
I will post pics of what I mean in a little while....
U.S Wings
Wested LC
As you can see, the USW sleeve seam lines-up with the sideseam. The Wested sleeve seam is WAY turned to the left in the pic... (That is just a crease, and not a seam by the sideseam) This causes the seam to practically run along my forearms when reaching out. The USW does NOT do this.
I will post pics of what I mean in a little while....
- Technonut
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Here are pics of how the seams run along my forearms:
Wested LC
U.S. Wings
If the Wested seams are screen-accurate, I can do without them... The seams were EXACTLY the same on the size 44R Wested LC that I sent back....
The U.S. Wings seams stay hidden as I think they should IMHO.. I have found another jacket or two that have the turned sleeve seams, but they manage to stay hidden...
Wested LC
U.S. Wings
If the Wested seams are screen-accurate, I can do without them... The seams were EXACTLY the same on the size 44R Wested LC that I sent back....
The U.S. Wings seams stay hidden as I think they should IMHO.. I have found another jacket or two that have the turned sleeve seams, but they manage to stay hidden...
Re: Comparison of contemporary US Wings to Licensed Cooper..
I wish they still looked like they do on their website. I would buy one in a flash._ wrote:
Here are the differences, and I am honestly disappointed as I can see why even the least picky would have issues here…
1. The total cut of the sleeve has changed. While the panels still seem to cover the same relative amount, the entire sleeve has been rotated clockwise and is much fuller cut. This means the armpit seam now does not line-up with the body seam under the arm. The effect feels like what one might characterize an ‘80’s cut. I don’t like it…
2. The pockets have become what I used to jokingly call “clown” pockets (on some circa 1999 Wested LC jackets). Almost 1 inch longer and wider than the old Cooper…
3. The collar attachment looks more like a Wested Raiders on this US Wings I have here, while the old Cooper has a pretty narrow collar stand and attaches to the storm flap where the zipper lines up, i.e. splitting the storm flap…
4. The old Cooper has a taper to the rear panel, while this current US Wings is almost identical top to bottom in width…
5. The side vent/pleat is even shorter in this current US Wings, while the old Cooper almost exactly splits the difference between the hem and the side straps where the vent closes
Never mind, things change in manufacturing land. Looking forward to your new jacket write up.
Regards - CM
- Gater
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Looking at Technonut's pics, I had to see for myself, so I just put my Wested Raiders lamb on (am at work, but ALWAYS have my trusted Raiders!)
Now what I found interesting is that the sleeve for the right arm, the seam is on the inside of the sleeve, between the arm and my side, but the left arm, the seam seems to be more out towards the outer arm, facing forward (??)
Now, I know I am funny with some things (you should see what I do to car seats after a while ) but this seemed unusual.
BUT this is interesting!! In this pic, borrowed without permission by TIE.C
you can see that the seam on the left is centered towards the inside of the arm, and the right is forward, towards the front! Hmmmm....so Technonut's LC's right sleeve IS screen accurate!
Now what I found interesting is that the sleeve for the right arm, the seam is on the inside of the sleeve, between the arm and my side, but the left arm, the seam seems to be more out towards the outer arm, facing forward (??)
Now, I know I am funny with some things (you should see what I do to car seats after a while ) but this seemed unusual.
BUT this is interesting!! In this pic, borrowed without permission by TIE.C
you can see that the seam on the left is centered towards the inside of the arm, and the right is forward, towards the front! Hmmmm....so Technonut's LC's right sleeve IS screen accurate!
Last edited by Gater on Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
- Technonut
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The left sleeve seam on my Wested looks exactly the same as the right seam also.....Gater wrote:Looking at Technonut's pics, I had to see for myself, so I just put my Wested Raiders lamb on (am at work, but ALWAYS have my trusted Raiders!)
Now what I found interesting is that the sleeve for the right arm, the seam is on the inside of the sleeve, between the arm and my side, but the left arm, the seam seems to be more out towards the outer arm, facing forward (??)
Now, I know I am funny with some things (you should see what I do to car seats after a while ) but this seemed unusual.
BUT this is interesting!! In this pic, borrowed without permission by TIE.C
you can see that the seam on the left is centered towards the inside of the arm, and the right is forward, towards the front! Hmmmm....so Technonut's LC's right sleeve IS screen accurate!
It's neither here nor there anyway... I just do not like sleeve seams that ride on the tops of the forearms... Screen accuracy is great to a point, but most people that did not know the difference would think it was a factory 2nd or something...
I was just showing basically how close the U.S. Wings is to the LC Wested... Pretty damnn close IMO (except the sleeve seams)... I'm not sure how different the U.S.A. made versions are. Maybe someone that has one could post specs to compare...
I don't know if this helps. I just snapped these pics outside of my Disney jacket that I bought from there in 2000. This one is in pretty-much new condition. I have another one that I got in 1997 (the one that's on Indygear). They're identical. I know that they did have some jackets with this same cut, but in a different leather, for a while.
Excuse the flash in the bottom three pics, kinda messes up the look of the leather.
The taper looks quite exaggerated here because of the big fold that is running along the back of the jacket.
Excuse the flash in the bottom three pics, kinda messes up the look of the leather.
The taper looks quite exaggerated here because of the big fold that is running along the back of the jacket.
No Problem. To me, the (Disney) jacket has always felt like a ToD/LC hybrid. ToD-ish pockets, but it has the LC collar stand just about perfect, in my opinion. The storm flap, while LC-ish, seems quite a bit wider than any of the movie jackets. Again, this is all just my opinion.
I don't know about other non-Disney Cooper's of the era, or years previous.
I don't know about other non-Disney Cooper's of the era, or years previous.
- Jorenz
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DeWayne, I have that jacket from disney. I bought mine in 94. It's still tough as nails. I wanted to pick up anther one in 2000 as well but by the time I decided to get one they stopped stocking it.
I posted some pics a while back. Here is the original post with pics.
viewtopic.php?t=7699&highlight=
I posted some pics a while back. Here is the original post with pics.
viewtopic.php?t=7699&highlight=
- Michaelson
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This one looks to be from about the same time as Magnoli’s on the other thread. I got it in 89’ or 90’ I believe. My friend had the sleeves shortened a tad. At this point I remember that I had been waiting for an Indy jacket for ten years (I had no idea Lee Keppler even existed). This jacket was like the holy grail for me for a time. Looking at it now, the pockets are narrow at least, but they are longer than I remember (as stated above). The pleats are also narrow. The collar is sort of the Holy Grail for LC collar construction (how accurate the cut of the collar is debatable). Cheers
Ps- The regular things like backwards sidestraps are present.
Ps- The regular things like backwards sidestraps are present.
Last edited by Rundquist on Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:48 pm, edited 7 times in total.
- Jorenz
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Man do I remember feeling that way too. When I saw this jscket at Disneyland I knew I had to get it right then and there. I still remember the whole day thinking about it. I thought it looked so cool hanging in Adventure Outpost.Rundquist wrote:At this point I remember that I had been waiting for an Indy jacket for ten years (I had no idea Lee Keppler even existed). This jacket was like the holy grail for me for a time.
Even though I wear my Wested pretty much everywhere nowadays. My Disney Indy and I had plenty of great adventures. And is still the one I wear when I ride my Motorcycle being that it's thicker than my Wested Lamb.
Thanks for posting
Mac wrote:Rundquist, I think we could get a better sense of the jacket if you would post more pictures – and clearer ones at that.
Seriously, thanks for photos and the detail. I wish we all could take pictures as well those. I love the color and the grain. The leather is predistressed, is it not?
- Mac
You know, I looked at the post again and realized that I double posted many of the pics. I've fixed it. Yeah it's on old pre-distressed cowhide. I think all the old Coopers were pre-distressed cowhide. Cheers
- raider 57
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USW Sleeve Inner Seam
Just an observation on the old Cooper vs US Wings Indy jacket comparison. My USW indy jacket was purchased in Jan '07, not a clearance item, regular price. The inner sleeve seams don't line up with the body seam on mine. They are about 4 inches towards the front of the coat. Do I understand correctly Wested and old Cooper's also offsets these seams? Or should they meet the body seam? Maybe the construction of clearance jackets are slightly different than the regular price jackets. Sorry no photos,I'll need to research the process here.
raider 57
raider 57
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USW Arm Seam
In follow up to my above post, Rundquist's '89 Disney Cooper jacket pic also appears to have an "offset" inner arm seam as well. My newer USW may have fuller cut sleeves,but the seam arrangement appears the same as the old Disney. Back panel tapers from 15.5 inches at top to 13.5 inches at bottom. As a side note, our recent visit to Disney and the MGM Indy special effects show, got me hooked into this stuff. I always loved the movies, but now................
raider 57
raider 57
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