Comparison of contemporary US Wings to Licensed Cooper...

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:12 pm

I had one of those 1989 Coopers with the little pockets and the LC collar stand. That was a pretty cool jacket. I gave it to a buddy. I think I can still borrow it and take pictures. It's too bad they don't make them like that anymore. Cheers

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:15 pm

I'll see if I can get it tonight and post tomorrow. Cheers

Cowboy · Post by **Cowboy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:17 pm

Great

I just bought a US last week. (OK, it was only $89, but) :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: . Dang you _

Cowboy · Post by **Cowboy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:21 pm

Does this mean that the photo on the website is wrong? Hey technonut- how does your's compare?

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:24 pm

Speaking on how Coopers have changed, I just looked at Paterson’s old Wings Kangaroo jacket on the main site, and just from memory I remember that the pockets on my old jacket were dead on TOD. Those were tiny suckers. Cheers

Rixter · Post by **Rixter** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:27 pm

_ wrote:I’ve managed to get my hands on a US Wings Indy Jones that purportedly shipped to its owner last December. I have to say I am surprised (not a "good" surprised, a "bad" surprise). I have compared it to a few examples I have in various closets and boxes around the house and have a list of discrepancies. What am I going to do with them? Might send them to David Hack or I may just finish my write-up and outline them there…

It seems to me that someone with your 'push' (from all that I've read from you) that you should be able to at the least get an insight into what David Hack himself has in mind concerning these "discrepancies" by simply asking him. Maybe I'm naive as to the way things really work, but whenever talking to him over the phone as a mere customer, I never got the impression that he was someone to mince words and was more than willing to explain exactly what he thinks, and, or why he does things. Of course, sending him some of your examples or pictures wouldn't hurt if he was willing to consider your input. Git-R-Done!

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:30 pm

4. The old Cooper has a taper to the rear panel, while this current US Wings is almost identical top to bottom in width…

And That just looks a little goofy to me..

Doug C

Cowboy · Post by **Cowboy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:31 pm

oh and some more

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:37 pm

Buck-up Cowboy, for $90 I certainly wouldn't knit pick any of this, it's seriously unreasonable to expect perfection from just an awesome deal. Full price on the other hand is a different story though.

Also, note that the current US Wings jackets have leather faceing behind the zippers (inside the jacket) that should not be there if originallity is expected..see this thread : viewtopic.php?t=21259

Doug C

Cowboy · Post by **Cowboy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:40 pm

_ wrote:
Cowboy wrote:Great I just bought a US last week. (OK, it was only $89, but) :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: . Dang you _
See, now this is the part that hurts... I know that this is not your intention, and I appreciate the caveat about what you paid, but it is why I get a bit animated about the topic of "what do you really know" about this stuff... I am sorry about you buying it. If you decide to return it, I'll cover the postage you have to eat - please...

Friend, we are all Big boys (and girls) here. You have done a stellar job my friend..........Heck, had I not even read your post.......I would not be smart enough to know what SA is.... Your welcome by my (in my non SA jackets) fire any time.....COWBOY

Cowboy · Post by **Cowboy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:42 pm

IT WAS A JOKE!!!! A FREEKING JOKE!!!!! I can barely put the right boot on the left foot, let alone know anything about SA......I BEG for forgivemess

Technonut · Post by **Technonut** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:43 pm

Cowboy wrote:Does this mean that the photo on the website is wrong? Hey technonut- how does your's compare?

My U.S Wings Imported goatskin is very close to a Wested LC that was made last December.... The U.S. Wings is a size large, and the Wested LC a 42R...

Storm Flap
Wested: 1.5"
USW: 1.5"

Pockets
Wested: 8.5" L x 7" w
USW: 8.5" L x 6 3/4" w

Collar Stand Width
Wested: 1 1/4"
USW: 1 1/4"

Pleat Depth
Wested: 2 3/8"
USW: 1 3/8"

Lower Collar Seam To Yoke
Wested: 6 1/4"
USW 7 1/4"

Back Panel Width (Top)
Wested: 19"
USW: 18"

Back Panel Width (Bottom)
Wested: 17"
USW: 15"

Cowboy · Post by **Cowboy** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:45 pm

What about the arm seam?

Technonut · Post by **Technonut** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:52 pm

Cowboy wrote:What about the arm seam?

I will get top men on it immediately.....

I'll get some pics up shortly... The Wested sleeve seams are a pet peeve of mine...

Technonut · Post by **Technonut** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:25 pm

Here are a couple of seam pics....

U.S Wings

Wested LC

As you can see, the USW sleeve seam lines-up with the sideseam. The Wested sleeve seam is WAY turned to the left in the pic... (That is just a crease, and not a seam by the sideseam) This causes the seam to practically run along my forearms when reaching out. The USW does NOT do this.

I will post pics of what I mean in a little while....

Technonut · Post by **Technonut** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:00 pm

Here are pics of how the seams run along my forearms:

Wested LC

U.S. Wings

If the Wested seams are screen-accurate, I can do without them... The seams were EXACTLY the same on the size 44R Wested LC that I sent back....

The U.S. Wings seams stay hidden as I think they should IMHO.. I have found another jacket or two that have the turned sleeve seams, but they manage to stay hidden...

CM · Post by CM » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:38 pm

_ wrote:
Here are the differences, and I am honestly disappointed as I can see why even the least picky would have issues here…

1. The total cut of the sleeve has changed. While the panels still seem to cover the same relative amount, the entire sleeve has been rotated clockwise and is much fuller cut. This means the armpit seam now does not line-up with the body seam under the arm. The effect feels like what one might characterize an ‘80’s cut. I don’t like it…
2. The pockets have become what I used to jokingly call “clown” pockets (on some circa 1999 Wested LC jackets). Almost 1 inch longer and wider than the old Cooper…
3. The collar attachment looks more like a Wested Raiders on this US Wings I have here, while the old Cooper has a pretty narrow collar stand and attaches to the storm flap where the zipper lines up, i.e. splitting the storm flap…
4. The old Cooper has a taper to the rear panel, while this current US Wings is almost identical top to bottom in width…
5. The side vent/pleat is even shorter in this current US Wings, while the old Cooper almost exactly splits the difference between the hem and the side straps where the vent closes

I wish they still looked like they do on their website. I would buy one in a flash.

Never mind, things change in manufacturing land. Looking forward to your new jacket write up.

Regards - CM

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:06 pm

Looking at Technonut's pics, I had to see for myself, so I just put my Wested Raiders lamb on (am at work, but ALWAYS have my trusted Raiders!)

Now what I found interesting is that the sleeve for the right arm, the seam is on the inside of the sleeve, between the arm and my side, but the left arm, the seam seems to be more out towards the outer arm, facing forward (??)

Now, I know I am funny with some things (you should see what I do to car seats after a while

) but this seemed unusual.

BUT this is interesting!! In this pic, borrowed without permission by TIE.C

you can see that the seam on the left is centered towards the inside of the arm, and the right is forward, towards the front! Hmmmm....so Technonut's LC's right sleeve IS screen accurate!

Dengar · Post by **Dengar** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:12 pm

Looking at technonut's US Wings pics, I wonder why his jacket looks so different than mine.

Mine is a US Wings goat skin (non-imported). The color is a lot darker and the sleeves are bigger (even though mine is a size medium).

Technonut · Post by **Technonut** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:37 pm

Gater wrote:Looking at Technonut's pics, I had to see for myself, so I just put my Wested Raiders lamb on (am at work, but ALWAYS have my trusted Raiders!)

Now what I found interesting is that the sleeve for the right arm, the seam is on the inside of the sleeve, between the arm and my side, but the left arm, the seam seems to be more out towards the outer arm, facing forward (??)

Now, I know I am funny with some things (you should see what I do to car seats after a while ) but this seemed unusual.

BUT this is interesting!! In this pic, borrowed without permission by TIE.C

you can see that the seam on the left is centered towards the inside of the arm, and the right is forward, towards the front! Hmmmm....so Technonut's LC's right sleeve IS screen accurate!

The left sleeve seam on my Wested looks exactly the same as the right seam also.....

It's neither here nor there anyway... I just do not like sleeve seams that ride on the tops of the forearms...

Screen accuracy is great to a point, but most people that did not know the difference would think it was a factory 2nd or something...

I was just showing basically how close the U.S. Wings is to the LC Wested... Pretty damnn close IMO (except the sleeve seams)... I'm not sure how different the U.S.A. made versions are. Maybe someone that has one could post specs to compare...

DeWayne · Post by **DeWayne** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:59 pm

I don't know if this helps. I just snapped these pics outside of my Disney jacket that I bought from there in 2000. This one is in pretty-much new condition. I have another one that I got in 1997 (the one that's on Indygear). They're identical. I know that they did have some jackets with this same cut, but in a different leather, for a while.

Excuse the flash in the bottom three pics, kinda messes up the look of the leather.

The taper looks quite exaggerated here because of the big fold that is running along the back of the jacket.

CM · Post by CM » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:52 pm

Wow, thanks for posting that jacket, DeWayne. So is that the US Wings/Cooper jacket that is said to be the original jacket used in TOD?

The windflap seems unusually wide - am I right?

Regards - Chris

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:10 am

I never thought that looked like Harrison Ford in that picture. He must have just woken up or something.

Thanks for posting those pictures of the Disney (cooper I guess?) jacket, not sure I've ever seen it so thorough.

Doug C

CM · Post by CM » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:17 am

I just realised with the press studs, etc it must be an official LC jacket. Oops! Actually, it looks a lot more like a LC jacket than my Wested LC does. I like those pockets.

Regards - CM

DeWayne · Post by **DeWayne** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 12:22 am

No Problem.

To me, the (Disney) jacket has always felt like a ToD/LC hybrid. ToD-ish pockets, but it has the LC collar stand just about perfect, in my opinion. The storm flap, while LC-ish, seems quite a bit wider than any of the movie jackets. Again, this is all just my opinion.

I don't know about other non-Disney Cooper's of the era, or years previous.

Jorenz · Post by **Jorenz** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:43 am

DeWayne, I have that jacket from disney. I bought mine in 94. It's still tough as nails. I wanted to pick up anther one in 2000 as well but by the time I decided to get one they stopped stocking it.

I posted some pics a while back. Here is the original post with pics.
viewtopic.php?t=7699&highlight=

DeWayne · Post by **DeWayne** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:11 am

That's a sweet looking jacket Lorenz! From the pics, the storm flap looks better on yours. About as close as I've seen to an LC jacket, along with Magnoli's shown on the same page. In my opinion of course.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:54 am

Those Disney jackets are gorgeous. I love the color and the grainy leather. The natural distressing of Indy Magnoli’s jacket is beautiful, one of my favorites.

Magnoli, can you source leather like that of your Disney jacket for your own jacket line?

- Mac

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:52 am

I remember when Disney/Coopers were looked upon with as much distain as DF wool felt fedoras.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:23 pm

these disney jackets look great and are perfect collector's additions. wouldn't it be nice if there were a crate of these somewhere and they were brand spank'n new?

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:35 pm

This one looks to be from about the same time as Magnoli’s on the other thread. I got it in 89’ or 90’ I believe. My friend had the sleeves shortened a tad. At this point I remember that I had been waiting for an Indy jacket for ten years (I had no idea Lee Keppler even existed). This jacket was like the holy grail for me for a time. Looking at it now, the pockets are narrow at least, but they are longer than I remember (as stated above). The pleats are also narrow. The collar is sort of the Holy Grail for LC collar construction (how accurate the cut of the collar is debatable). Cheers

Ps- The regular things like backwards sidestraps are present.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:35 pm

Jorenz · Post by **Jorenz** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:53 pm

Rundquist wrote:At this point I remember that I had been waiting for an Indy jacket for ten years (I had no idea Lee Keppler even existed). This jacket was like the holy grail for me for a time.

Man do I remember feeling that way too. When I saw this jscket at Disneyland I knew I had to get it right then and there. I still remember the whole day thinking about it. I thought it looked so cool hanging in Adventure Outpost.

Even though I wear my Wested pretty much everywhere nowadays. My Disney Indy and I had plenty of great adventures. And is still the one I wear when I ride my Motorcycle being that it's thicker than my Wested Lamb.

Thanks for posting

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:28 pm

Rundquist, I think we could get a better sense of the jacket if you would post more pictures – and clearer ones at that.

Seriously, thanks for photos and the detail. I wish we all could take pictures as well those. I love the color and the grain. The leather is predistressed, is it not?

- Mac

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 7:51 pm

Mac wrote:Rundquist, I think we could get a better sense of the jacket if you would post more pictures – and clearer ones at that.

Seriously, thanks for photos and the detail. I wish we all could take pictures as well those. I love the color and the grain. The leather is predistressed, is it not?

- Mac

You know, I looked at the post again and realized that I double posted many of the pics. I've fixed it. Yeah it's on old pre-distressed cowhide. I think all the old Coopers were pre-distressed cowhide. Cheers

raider 57 · Post by **raider 57** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:58 pm

Just an observation on the old Cooper vs US Wings Indy jacket comparison. My USW indy jacket was purchased in Jan '07, not a clearance item, regular price. The inner sleeve seams don't line up with the body seam on mine. They are about 4 inches towards the front of the coat. Do I understand correctly Wested and old Cooper's also offsets these seams? Or should they meet the body seam? Maybe the construction of clearance jackets are slightly different than the regular price jackets. Sorry no photos,I'll need to research the process here.

raider 57

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 12:06 am

Wow, I didn't think I'd like cowhide at all but that one Rundquist posted is sweet in everyway...well, except for the huge "Indiana Jones" lable inside, I know it's shallow of me but that would make me feel a little

. Otherwise I love it!

Doug C

raider 57 · Post by **raider 57** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 4:18 pm

In follow up to my above post, Rundquist's '89 Disney Cooper jacket pic also appears to have an "offset" inner arm seam as well. My newer USW may have fuller cut sleeves,but the seam arrangement appears the same as the old Disney. Back panel tapers from 15.5 inches at top to 13.5 inches at bottom. As a side note, our recent visit to Disney and the MGM Indy special effects show, got me hooked into this stuff. I always loved the movies, but now................

raider 57

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:28 pm

I post this pic from time to time, here's the ad showing the "Cooper" that was included in the Last Crusade soundtrack back in 1989...

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:23 pm

That girls hot, in an 80's kind of way

... man I remember those Guess jeans!

Doug C

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:36 pm

Just too bad the folks at Cooper are not making these any more. Maybe the impending release next year (?) of IJ IV will impel them to make a bunch...(wishful thinking).

Cassidy · Post by **Cassidy** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:32 am

God, I am so ticked now that I sold my Indy Disney jacket which looked just like Rundquists...I bought it in 1990 and sold it two years ago.

I'd love to remember who I sold it to and get it back...

Comparison of contemporary US Wings to Licensed Cooper...

Re: Comparison of contemporary US Wings to Licensed Cooper..

USW Sleeve Inner Seam

USW Arm Seam