Thank You, _

[CM]

Thank you _ for supplying us with decent and reliable information about the famous jacket. I appreciate it a great deal.

The new info about the Cooper jacket sounds right to me. It is a major breakthrough.

I am new to this forum and do not dress as Indy. My interest was always to get a cool jacket like the one in the movie, without getting too anal about SA issues. Buckles etc don’t faze me too much. Zipper size isn’t important. But pocket size, flaps, and the general cut are - they are so obvious.

As soon as I got my Wested LC I thought there was something amiss. How could a guy with the plans get the pockets so wrong? Looking at all the Raiders jackets on this site, I noticed that they were mostly wrong too. A lawyer friend of mine looked at the Wested certificate of authenticity and said – ‘this proves they don’t have the patterns.’ A laminated certificate is a cheap sales trick – known as bluff in the old days. I was more than a little annoyed, even though I like the Wested a great deal. I don’t like being told a bunch of porkies. The jacket is cheap and well made. It doesn’t need to be turned into the shroud of Turin, if you know what I mean.

I have noticed an almost cult like status around Peter and his product. Some of the testimonials read like dodgy pledges by zealous converts. Rabid and scary. This can only blind people to the truth. Of course, Peter is pleasant and a nice man, etc. This is called customer service. He has made a great deal of money from fans.

Maybe he shoud have his own jacket site for those people who would like to worship. It'd hopefully free up this site.

I look forward to the rewritten jacket story in the gear section. Can I respectfully suggest lots of headings in bold to make it easier to read? Maybe some of the information that at this point remains conjecture could be written in another colour? Just a thought.

Reading these posts has been a fascinating experience. I have to say that you, _ have been pretty unflappable amidst all the cant and dogma. Michaelson has been a pleasure to read also. It must be frustrating for you guys to get people on here who either try to promote themselves or offer information and dubious insights that only serve to obscure the facts.

I was amazed to read about the construction of the LC jacket. Imagine using a fan constructed jacket by another producer as the basis for your work! It’s a good example of how odd things can be in the real world.

I think once the jacket story is carefully written up, it should put an end to people’s conjecture. I look forward to reading it a great deal. Thanks for your work.

Cheers - CM

[Lao Feng]

"The new info about the Cooper jacket sounds right to me. It is a major breakthrough."

Did I miss something? Is Coopercoming out with an Indy jacket after many years of not doing so?

[agent5]

I have noticed an almost cult like status around Peter and his product. Some of the testimonials read like dodgy pledges by zealous converts.

People who know me know that I've been preaching this for years, but not only about Wested, about quite a few of the vendors, FS and AB to name a couple, who also have some incredibly overzealous fans.
I really got into it a few times with people holding AB's and Steve on a pedestal like a god, which is whacked out. I always made it clear I was not speaking out about the product or it's maker, but the fans reaction to them. Sometimes just a bit too out there for reality. Alot of this too, was coming from fans who purchased the AB as their FIRST hat ever and calling it the best in the world. I'd say that's jumping the gun without getting all the facts.
I guess the overexcitement has always been a part of cow that I can now sort of look past. I just have to look fast.

[Doug C]

I keep telling myself to quit adding to this discussion but here I am again. Just want to say that I agree and appreciate _'s posting of this info., very good to know all the details. But If I'm being honest though I have to say that I'm not comfortable with how it has been presented, in a hostile tone (JMHO). Just not necessary to do that I don't think. I personally think no less of Wested or their product, the COA never meant anything to me anyway. I think the fan base has gained something from having Wested involved here, if only a well made and reasonably priced jacket. Don't get me wrong, I am not toting anyone's flag, I would (and have) always consider each maker before buying. Had my share of complaints with the Westeds I've own too. I'm just saying a little diplomacy or tact wouldn't hurt. My $.02

Doug C

[agent5]

the COA never meant anything to me anyway. I think the fan base has gained something from having Wested involved here

I feel the same of the COA and yes, I've always said that the fanbase gains from all the vendors in one way or another. It's great we're not stuck in the days of Indyfan with only one or two options of everything, if that. Now, we have something to please everyone, for the most part.

[Dr.Seuss]

People who know me know that I've been preaching this for years, but not only about Wested, about quite a few of the vendors, FS and AB to name a couple, who also have some incredibly overzealous fans.
* * * I always made it clear I was not speaking out about the product or it's maker, but the fans reaction to them. Sometimes just a bit too out there for reality. * * * I'd say that's jumping the gun without getting all the facts. I guess the overexcitement has always been a part of cow that I can now sort of look past. I just have to look fast.[/quote]

Agreed. This is essentially the theme I raised and pursued in the Fedora Forum. Why have previously highly praised vendors, now been moved to the back shelves, with only an occasional dusting off of their products? Once, these vendors were at the top of their game. Have they simply not kept up with the times in term of quality or demand? Or are their products so far removed from what the fan base desires, the product is obsolete?

The plethora of "recommended" products, currently offered across the COW boards, all appear to be of the highest quality. How does the neophyte choose, when the recommendations are often but one, or two. As a psychology/political science major, I once stood up at a Dr. Who Conference, and asked Tom Baker, why he believed what was essentially a child's TV show turned out to be amongst the longest running adult viewed science fiction TV sagas. The jeers and boos from that largely adult audience were likely amongst the loudest recorded in the annuals of sound recording (perhaps save at major sporting events). The lesson, never question the pious or devoted.

All the vendors who support or have supported this hobby and group should be congratulated. Perhaps a "tad" of objective information is a laudable thing.

Sincerely,

[CM]

Hi Suess,

I'm not sure that falling standards is the issue. The fact is, standards are improving. Certainly as far as Wested is concerned. What started as a "bellhop's jacket" is now almost screen accurate. That's entirely thanks to certain fans.

The issue is deception. Vendors making claims which are untrue and were untrue right from the beginning. It's probably more a case of us growing up and questioning the sometimes labyrinthine mythos.

In terms of the needs of the neophyte... a little research on the site and comparison of photos should establish things pretty well. The fact getting things right isn't easy only adds to the charm of the hobby.

Regarding Doctor Who: How dare you!!! Who do you think you are!!! Just joking....

Cheers - CM

[Dre]

As an owner of a wested jacket, I do genuinely think that it's a fantastic jacket for the price. The leather and worksmen ship DO feel like rather good quality - certainly over and above anything i've seen in department stores for more money.

Am I to gather from this thread that wested/peter did not make the original jacket? I wasn't aware that was suspect? As far as i've been told, peter helped design the original jacket and had the pattern for it - is this suspect now? Or is what is suspect is the claim that wested make a screen accurate jacket?

It does seem like peter may never have had the original patterns - the fit of the jacket seems way off, and it does seem odd that peter is taking so long to produce a 'screen accurate' jacket if he already had the patterns from the movie? Or if he had a screen used jacket anywhere, why not just copy that and make a pattern from that? Shouldn't take too long at all I would have thought.

As for the fit, I do think that the fit of the jacket, including the 80s, has strayed too much from the original. Wested/Peter, I think, seem to be under the impression that this newer, baggy fit is what customers want, and is somehow more 'modern' than a fitted jacket. I'd totally disagree, and although a baggier jacket may have been more modern years back, I think fitted jackets are quite stylish again now. If I could change anything about wested it would definetely be the fit.

But overall, I do love my wested. I'm not sure where the all the hosility does come from - I guess it's from them claiming their jackets are somewhat screen accurate - which they're not. Still a good alternative in the way of quality and price imo.

[Kt Templar]

I'm one of those being portrayed as an overzealous nut job and this is far from the truth, I am as cynical and jaded as the next man! Probably more so, I work in licensing. I know what sort of deals are done by official licensees.

I don't put the guy on a pedestal, I like him a lot, he works hard to try and please the fans here and at other sites and has also been very generous in the past, giving a free jacket at one summit that I know of.

A couple of years ago I found out about "Indygear", there was a place on the net where a bunch of fans have found out who made the original stuff from a great movie and can put you in contact with them and you can even buy the stuff. AMAZING.

So after reading all the information on the main site and also some of the forum and finding, to my astonishment, that one of the producers was only about half an hour away from me. I went to see Peter. You can read my account from my first post a couple of years ago. There is a tone of awe in my account, slightly tongue in cheek, if you hadn't gathered that. But something you should know about meeting him. He is very down to earth, likes to tell a joke. A throughly nice guy and a good salesman.

Anything that's an embellishment is told with a wink and a smile so you know to take it with a pinch of salt. Something some folk here should learn how to do.

I've had a few jackets from him and have helped a little providing photos for a couple of his more recent non Indy projects.

The crazy thing is, I've never had a made to measure, his ones always fit me good enough there and then so I haven't had to. It is very difficult to get clothes to fit me in a normal retail store. I am very short but sort of broad. But he does sizes outside those that normal retail would do, this more than anything makes me appreciate him. It's a relief to actually find something that fits!

My information about gear history comes only from this site I have no inside information about the 80's films and contrary to any assumptions I've never actually talked with Peter about the ins and outs of how he came to make the Raiders jacket in the first place. We've chatted about films he's worked on and he's shown me various samples of old jackets he has in the shop. I have a Bond style jacket from the Roger Moore days that he sold me for a song, it even has a Leather Concessionaires label in it. He has told me he has measured Ford on 2 occasions, for Indy and for Hannover Street. I believe him.

I've never taken the COA as anything other than a bit of fun.

I've seen the way he works. I brought photos of a jacket I wanted him to make from another franchise. He started to think about it, "It's an X body with a Y collar and a Z belt, Yes I can put that together from the patterns I have here". (Note: The X, Y, and Z are my shorthand I didn't catch the refererences he noted to himself).

That's possibly how he went about putting his Indy jacket together for Raiders, perhaps after that the bits went back into their slots in the pattern alphabet and were lost to the mists of time.

25 years ago he and his workers made a bunch of jackets, he'll now make you a similar one.

He produces a decent product that he could have sold for far far more but chose to sell at below retail price.

Anyway please don't demonise the man, he's 63 now will be retired and out of your hair before too long.

Thank YOU Peter.

Illegitimi non carborundum est

Jason.

[Strider]

A lawyer friend of mine looked at the Wested certificate of authenticity and said – ‘this proves they don’t have the patterns.’ A laminated certificate is a cheap sales trick – known as bluff in the old days. I was more than a little annoyed, even though I like the Wested a great deal. I don’t like being told a bunch of porkies. The jacket is cheap and well made. It doesn’t need to be turned into the shroud of Turin, if you know what I mean.

You're funny. The fact that Peter makes a Certificate of Authenticity for the sake of fun does not "prove" anything, and if you really had a friend who was a lawyer, then he would know that nothing is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt until the evidence is sitting on the table. Some lawyer.

I have noticed an almost cult like status around Peter and his product.

That's because he's spent years working with the fans and catering to them to build up such a fan base. Don't hate.

This can only blind people to the truth.

"The truth" being what? The truth according to you?

Of course, Peter is pleasant and a nice man, etc. This is called customer service. He has made a great deal of money from fans.

Of course he has, because he caters to the fans. Is there something wrong with making money from fans? I mean, reading your post, you make it sound as if Peter has taken advantage of us in some way.

Maybe he shoud have his own jacket site for those people who would like to worship. It'd hopefully free up this site.

You're funny.

I look forward to the rewritten jacket story in the gear section.

So do I. Can't wait to see what they write about Wested in there.

I have to say that you, _ have been pretty unflappable amidst all the cant and dogma.

Maybe he shoud have his own jacket site for those people who would like to worship. It'd hopefully free up this site.

This is too easy! Have a cookie!

Michaelson has been a pleasure to read also. It must be frustrating for you guys to get people on here who either try to promote themselves or offer information and dubious insights that only serve to obscure the facts.

It's even more frustrating to read posts from people who have no idea what they're talking about. I mean, can you imagine?

In terms of the needs of the neophyte...

I hate it when people refer to themselves in the third person.

I think once the jacket story is carefully written up, it should put an end to people’s conjecture. I look forward to reading it a great deal.

I think so, too! Just imagine all the extra info we'll see in the Wested section of it!

[Technonut]

CM wrote:
I think once the jacket story is carefully written up, it should put an end to people’s conjecture. I look forward to reading it a great deal.

Strider wrote:
I think so, too! Just imagine all the extra info we'll see in the Wested section of it!

_ has it pretty much written-up... The summary goes:

_ wrote:
When I rewrite the jacket section, Wested Leather will be listed as a subcontractor that took the order for the jacket that became the final choice for the Raiders jacket. Deb doesn’t know Peter from Adam – she figured he was an employee of Monte Berman. Deb Nadoolman will be given full credit for the design, as she deserves that credit. The fact that the various jacket makers submitted jackets that for the most part were virtually identical is a credit to her vision of the character as relayed by Steven Spielberg and George Lucas. After all, she had the good sense to NOT include the feather in the headband of the fedora - didn't she?

Temple of Doom? Credit goes to LucasFilms Licensing and Cooper for being so professional and thorough in their prior submissions.

LC? Well Wested made them, but would have screwed-the-pooch had it not been for Lee Kepler and Flight Suits... Peter owes Lee a “thank you”, but instead he received nada, zilch, not a blessed-thing… Heck, it took years just to get his Flight Suits jacket back from Wested…

I could go on, but I won't other than to say that to argue that there has not been abuse of the privileges’ here to the benefit of one vendor and his flagrant misrepresentations would be insulting to this entire community. It has to stop. We could be nice and gentle and stop it slowly, but then a few more members or even worse – the casual stopper-by - might fall for the old lie and spend their hard-earned money on a sham. We can do it my way and stop it now. That way, fewer of us are being hypocrites, and if people want to look at Wested for what it is – lower price, varying degrees of consistency and accuracy and quality, according to ones taste and needs, but with decent customer service and a willingness to do one-off mods… Heck - what I just said about them makes them a good choice! Why is the false "legend" so important when it is so misleading?

In case anyone missed it, the thread is here: viewtopic.php?t=21170&postdays=0&postor ... &start=100

[CM]

Hey strider,


You poor sensative soul,


You're right: everything I wrote was motivated by hate and lies. I specifically decided to poor out bile in order to upset your delicate self.

Have a nice day,

CM

[CM]

Strider, I was going to leave it, but I figured I should try and address your points which were almost all wrongheaded. So with respect, here goes.

You're funny. The fact that Peter makes a Certificate of Authenticity for the sake of fun does not "prove" anything, and if you really had a friend who was a lawyer, then he would know that nothing is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt until the evidence is sitting on the table. Some lawyer. :roll:.

What my lawyer friend said (yes Strider, he does exist) is that in retail an old confidence trick to help move a dodgy product was to supply a certificate of authenticity. It's often taken as a sign these days that something is not quite right. People used to fall for it all the time. Still do, it seems. Of course it doesn't hold up in court, it isn't meant to be a legal document. That was not my friend's point. As for Peter offering the certificate in fun - he was dead serious about it when I spoke with him about it - on two occasions.

That's because he's spent years working with the fans and catering to them to build up such a fan base. Don't hate.

This is not said in hate, only in fact. Your extraordinary and defensive stance is just proof of my whole point.

The truth" being what? The truth according to you?

No, you weren't reading properly, Strider. The truth according to those people who were here at the start of all this and have acquired a sound body of knowledge instead of dogma. I'm just trying to sift the facts from the bulldust - or is that not allowed?

Of course he has, because he caters to the fans. Is there something wrong with making money from fans? I mean, reading your post, you make it sound as if Peter has taken advantage of us in some way.

Did I say there was something wrong with making money?? No. Is Peter taking advantage? Well, yes to some extent. It is clearly in his financial interests to stretch the truth. He is telling us falsities about the jacket and about having the original plans. If this is done in fun, then the joke is lost on me.

In my conversations with Peter, he was deadly serious about having invented and produced the jackets in all three films and having the drawings. This is not just my fancy - those are the researched views of many here. My point about him being nice is that some people offer this as proof of him being as honest as the day is long. There is no connection between honesty and being nice.

You're funny.

Is that meant to be insulting?

It's even more frustrating to read posts from people who have no idea what they're talking about. I mean, can you imagine

No idea? Me? What a kind and lovely person you are. Actually, I think I'm pretty much accurate here in describing the situation. This is not personal and shouldn't be. I'm sorry if it upsets you so much. Maybe you need to find an outlet to deal with it. It would be better still if you didn't resort to abusive postings.

I hate it when people refer to themselves in the third person.

So do I. Again, if you had been reading properly, instead of judging others, you might have noticed that I was quoting from the guy who posted before me. I figure you simply feel the need to be insulting because someone has insulted your Wested faith.

For the last time - I like my Wested a lot and Peter is a nice man. But this has nothing to do with the truth behind the jacket which is the whole point of this site.

Strider, what you have executed here is the old fallacy of attacking the man and not the argument.

Cheers for now - CM

[GCR]

This again...what the **** is up with the jacket?

I've been avoiding sticking my nose in this thread, mainly because threads like these tick me off. I've been around this hobby for a long time. Not always posting and contributing, mind you...but always out there somewhere, on the fringe. I was around in the Indyfan days, I saw the rise of the "jacket wars", back when all of this first got stirred up. I thought it was BS then, and I think it's BS now.

What is BS, you might ask? That's the thing...that's the very nature of BS, you can't be sure what is BS and what isn't. I don't care how good you are at sniffing these things out, unless you've got proof, you've got nothing. In essence, this whole dang thing might be BS from top to bottom. Wested's story might be BS, _'s story might be BS, they might both have elements of BS in them, but one thing is sure, they can't both be true.

So who do you believe? Both sides might have things to be gained or lost from people buying into their version of the truth. Perhaps one more than the other, depending on your perspective. But which one is it? That's the real question here, and that's when the lines get drawn in the sand and people are forced to choose sides, all over a dang jacket.

As for me, I'm perfectly willing to accept the fact that we may NEVER know the true jacket story. We have two versions right now, and I honestly think the "truth" lies somewhere in between them. And I'm okay with that, I'm able to accept the unknown instead of choosing one side or the other. Choosing "sides" isn't what this hobby is about for me. And it never has been...

And to be clear, I don't know Peter or _ personally. I've never met either of them, or talked with them face to face, on the phone or through some other form of communication outside of these forums. My sole source as a judge of character is this very board (and Indyfan, though I admit, my memory of those days isn't great). I'm sure both of them are great guys, and I do not question that. Nor is it my goal to question that with this post. I merely wish to show that there is no one "true" jacket story, despite what people claim. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence, heresay and conjecture, but there is nothing solid enough, concrete enough to positively declare any one jacket story as "the truth", in my opinion. Perhaps someday there will be, but until then...

-GCR

[agent5]

GCR has a point. Fact is that we've gotten conflicting info from even the people who have worked on the films. If so, how can even their word be gospel? As much as I'd like that to be the case, conflicting stories from those involved do nothing but create more questions, which has been the case since day one.
I think it is important that these people have been tracked down and their stories taken, but unless evidence is presented by those parties to present fact on those statements then we are just taking them at their word. In some cases that has not been so true to memory. Of course, this is not attemting to take away from those who worked on the films. I have a hard time remembering things from last week so I can understand the trouble in recalling jobs from 20+ years ago. Heck, even 6 months ago.
As GCR is saying, I'm not trying to imply anyones story is BS, but that some of the facts might be have taken liberties over the years. Nothing intentional.

[Strider]

Hey strider,


You poor sensative soul,


You're right: everything I wrote was motivated by hate and lies. I specifically decided to poor out bile in order to upset your delicate self.

Have a nice day,

CM

Lame. No cookie for you!

What my lawyer friend said (yes Strider, he does exist) is that in retail an old confidence trick to help move a dodgy product was to supply a certificate of authenticity. It's often taken as a sign these days that something is not quite right. People used to fall for it all the time.

No, no...if I remember right, you said Mr. Lawyer said: "this PROVES he doesn't have the patterns," not: "this is an old confidence trick...yadda yadda yadda." Does the fact that he produces a COA mean that he doesn't have the patterns? Only a few people really know the answer to that question, and it ain't you or me. The rest is simple speculation, so until you can prove something, you shouldn't lay it out on the table.

As for Peter offering the certificate in fun - he was dead serious about it when I spoke with him about it - on two occasions.

And your point is? Ok, so it's meant to be serious, not in fun. So what? Does that prove or disprove anything? Riiight.

This is not said in hate, only in fact. Your extraordinary and defensive stance is just proof of my whole point.

Oops, my fault. I tried to use a different slang language on you than you're probably used to hearing. For us younger folks, "don't hate" means the same as "don't be envious."

No, you weren't reading properly, Strider. The truth according to those people who were here at the start of all this and have acquired a sound body of knowledge instead of dogma.

There is more than one person who was "there at the start of all this," and as GCR said, their stories conflict. So how do you know one is telling the truth and the other isn't?

Is Peter taking advantage? Well, yes to some extent. It is clearly in his financial interests to stretch the truth. He is telling us falsities about the jacket and about having the original plans.

Well, I haven't seen any proof that these are the things Peter is doing, and until then, the man is innocent until proven guilty in my book. If you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt these things are going on, please, bring your evidence to the table. I'd like to see it.

In my conversations with Peter, he was deadly serious about having invented and produced the jackets in all three films and having the drawings.

Like I said, I haven't seen any proof otherwise. I only hear certain people who are clearly biased saying otherwise. Of course, I've only been here for two years.

What a kind and lovely person you are.

Oh, I know. Thanks.

Actually, I think I'm pretty much accurate here in describing the situation.

All I see is you describing a situation and I don't see any proof. Where is the hard evidence? I will be the first to say: "Boy, was I wrong" if such evidence were lurking around the forums here and I had somehow missed it in the last 2 1/2 years I've been here. So you can think you're as on target as you like, but until I see something serious, it's all speculation, and I don't know why I should believe a word of it. Take it into consideration, yes. Which, by the way, I have. I am willing to entertain all possibilities here, but not just because someone says I should. If they can bring the bacon home and show me why I should take their points of view as fact, then more power to them. Until then, I have to make a decision based on the amount of knowledge I have at the time.

I figure you simply feel the need to be insulting because someone has insulted your Wested faith.

I don't have a Wested faith. I've bought some jackets from them, and I've liked them, but I don't have a blind faith to anyone.

Strider, what you have executed here is the old fallacy of attacking the man and not the argument.

Well, to you anyway.

[Cowboy]

Has anyone asked themselves-------- If Peter were a liar, wouldn't Lucas and Spielberg be suing his ### for Copyright, licensing etc??? Look at his site. It looks like it came straight from the movies. They sued over a lightsaber. Why did they not do the same for the man "claiming" to be the maker of the "Indy" Jacket? I would say that even Lucas knows this to be true. BTW, I am looking forward to my first US Wings jacket. I plan on getting a FS in time too. I am most interested in the toughest c"lose enough" Indy Jacket. Frankly, in a world where boys are dying in the desert and children are starving in Africa and Korea....... The real Bull S&*T is arguing about a #### coat...... Some folks need to grow up or go into acting.....Then you can all (Screen accurate cry babies) make believe that you have the EXACT #### jacket that Harrison Ford wore to Egypt, the Temple of Doom, Venice or the toilet. (Oh I am sure that someone here will want a screen accurate toilet scene ) Now all of you---Cow Boy up or go sit in the truck.

[St. Dumas]

A lawyer friend of mine looked at the Wested certificate of authenticity and said – ‘this proves they don’t have the patterns.’ A laminated certificate is a cheap sales trick – known as bluff in the old days.

Speaking of certificates of authenticity, have you checked the authenticity of your lawyer friend's law degree?

I guess my point is that it's one thing to nitpick over the acreen accuracy of a leather jacket; it's another thing to attack a businessman's reputation. For ther record, I like my Westeds just fine, Peter's a fine craftsman and his customer service is second to none.

SD

[Bogie1943]

Are there any moderators around?? I think this thread is going to kindergarten and fast...

[Michaelson]

They're around.....no reason to slam the door yet.

Remember, this is the new and improved, warm and fuzzy moderated Indygear.com now, as requested last year in the feedback section by so many members!

Of course, always with the understanding that should anyone get things completely off the rails, things will be quickly shut down, and those creating the problems dealt with.

Regards! Michaelson

[DeWayne]

Am I to gather from this thread that wested/peter did not make the original jacket? I wasn't aware that was suspect?

Was this said or just hinted at? So is there evidence it may not have even have been a Wested/Leather Concessionaires on screen in "Raiders"?

[Michaelson]

No, that was never said or hinted at.

As a matter of fact, this IS what was said by _...

I give Peter credit for making the Raider's jacket. I have no reason to believe Deb was not as thorough with him as she was with everyone else she left in her wake... All praise Peter and the jacket!

You really need to into that now 3 page string and read it over. Lot's of pertinent information there to mull over, but that was NEVER said or hinted at.

Regard! Michaelson

[DeWayne]

Ah. Thanks Michaelson.

Sitting here recovering from my emergency appendectomy a few days ago, nothing better to do than catch up on the Indy drama I missed while in the hospital. Looks like a lot to catch up on!

[Michaelson]

First of all....WOW!! We didn't know (or at least I didn't know ) you were on your back, old friend!!!

Hope you're on the mend!!!

Yep, lots of interesting stuff in the last few days of the week. Really reminded me of the good old days at Indyfan! That was a day to day bar room brawl most days!!

Not saying that was good.....but lots of stuff shook out of the dust!

HIGH regards, and get better soon!!

Michaelson

[CM]

I've said my piece guys, I stick by the points made. Incidentally, the same points have been made better by many others here. No need to walk inside the kindergarten and escalate this internet quagmire any further.

Strider... I hope we can leave it at this. The site should remain a fun place to discuss jackets. Okay with you?

In summary; you think Peter's jackets are screen accurate and that everything he tells us is equally accurate. I do not.

Cheers for now - CM

[DeWayne]

First of all....WOW!! We didn't know (or at least I didn't know ) you were on your back, old friend!!!

Hope you're on the mend!!!

Yep, lots of interesting stuff in the last few days of the week. Really reminded me of the good old days at Indyfan! That was a day to day bar room brawl most days!!

Not saying that was good.....but lots of stuff shook out of the dust!

HIGH regards, and get better soon!!

Michaelson

Yeah it's been quite a week. I was even in the E.R. all night Monday for an unrelated thing.

More fun for us old-guys to sit back and watch the brawls now, eh? For this old guy anyway.

Thanks very much for the well-wishes Michaelson!

[Strider]

Strider... I hope we can leave it at this. The site should remain a fun place to discuss jackets. Okay with you?

Yeah, I'm with that. That's totally cool by me.

Tho...

In summary; you think Peter's jackets are screen accurate and that everything he tells us is equally accurate. I do not.

That's not what I think, for the record. I'm just saying that if you're going to come at me with some things like this, I'd just like to see proof before I turn on the man. Is that so bad?

[CM]

I'm happy with that, Mate.

Cheers - CM

[Kaplan]

Some folks need to grow up or go into acting

This is one of the funniest things I've read in a while. Thanks for the laugh cowboy!

[davyjones007]

I would say that the MOST screen accurate jacket is the one best represented by the vendor who sales the jacket YOU see on screen. I have a Wested DB lamb. No handwarmer pockets and an extra inside pocket. That is the jacket I wanted and if I didn't tell anybody about this site or bump into any of the folks here, well none would be the wiser about screen accuracy. I told my friends at work that this was a copy of the jacket used in the movies and they think that is so awsome that you can get stuff like that. ME too. So to all the vendors and fans that gave life to this site, I say thanks for helping that 11 year old boy get his dream jacket 25 years later. Now if only yall would have helped pay for it, that would have been really cool!

[Dre]

Thanks for clarifying it for me guys. Personally, I don't really care if peter doesn't have the patterns or not. He makes a good jacket, and DID make the original raiders jacket. That's good enough for me. His price is good enough for me. The quality is fantastic and good enough for me. And his customer service is good enough for me. All these things were over and above what I expected.

But yeah, I guess the jacket could be more screen accurate. I do beleive he's working on that now though?

[Cowboy]

Some folks need to grow up or go into acting

This is one of the funniest things I've read in a while. Thanks for the laugh cowboy!

[Mike]

As _ has acknowledged this and it is a potential powder keg, we'll close it down.

Move along...move along.