I heard it through the grapevine...

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:33 am

...that Aero Leather is going to be offering the Indy jacket soon.

IndyBlues · Post by **IndyBlues** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:53 am

Sounds like they are changing their tune. Didn't they try their hand in the Indy jacket market before?? I thought they gave up because of the detail involved, and all of our nit-picking.
'Blues

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:57 am

I guess they're trying again coz they think we can afford to pay 900 pounds for a jacket!

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:09 am

I'll bet about £3-£350, which doesn't look too bad until you realise that's $700!

I got a few leather samples from them just out of nosiness, their chocolate steerhide is an almost exact match for Wested Dark brown cow (which makes sense I suppose).

Their seal goat is stiffer than the Wested goat and looks like dark brown too.

Their russet smooth horse is weird... very light, light coloured too and really fake looking, it looks like that bonded leather. The surface is nothing like the Wested horse.

Garzo · Post by **Garzo** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:15 am

I like Aero because they make classic jackets but I've had three different jackets from them and they all tend to fit short. At the moment I have jerky horsehide highwayman and the leather is very glossy and stiff, very different than the Wested horsehide. Interesting. But I doubt they will be able to compete with Wested, which looks like it's in the process of dumping its prices in an all out battle for control of the Indy Jacket Market. The Jacket Wars have begun!

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:25 am

I guess they bought the Westeds to copy the pattern - now they're selling them off.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 12:17 pm

I guess they're trying again coz they think we can afford to pay 900 pounds for a jacket!

for that price i would rather fly to england and visit peter and gemma to have my measurements taken and get a custom made jacket done up.....then i'd hook up with KT and we'd go for sushi

Flyer05 · Post by **Flyer05** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:29 am

FS/ GB already makes a gorgeous Indy jacket that we all know is very well built...moreso than the Wested is. Aero's construction will no doubt be rock solid, but I would think on par with FS. The only thing that Aero seems to offer that few other dealers do that would justify the jump in price for this jacket, is their stunning hides. The leather they use is gorgeous! But again, ain't nothing wrong with FS. For the price, I'll probably stay with FS, though I love Aero and am awaiting delivery of one of their Navy AN6552 jackets as we speak.

Flyer05 · Post by **Flyer05** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:47 pm

I asked a pretty connected source at Aero, and they answered with a definitive "no" when asked about whether they would be doing an Indy jacket.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Feb 12, 2007 7:57 pm

Then maybe a more suitable question to ask would be why they bought those indy jackets.

Flyer05 · Post by **Flyer05** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:01 am

I didn't ask that specific question, but the answer that I got made reference to those jackets and why they had them. They had no reason to lie to me. I made it known that I was getting ready to purchase an FS Indy jacket, but that if Aero had plans for one that I would be willing to wait and possibly purchase one. But, as I said, they deifintively answered "no", and for pretty specific reasons.

They may have not wanted people to know that the jacket might be coming out. But this stuff isn't trade secret or anything. It's not like competitors would beat them to the market. The competition has been in the market for years. Aero would be the late-comer.

Hey, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But, I take the answer that I got as definitive.

Flyer05 · Post by **Flyer05** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:36 pm

Yep. The biggest reason cited wasn't difficulty with the design per se. It was difficulty in coming up with a design that would please the die-hard collectors and fans. I think that you have all these people who think they know what the jacket is supposed to look like down to the number of stitches in the lapel, when the finer details of the jacket did actually vary (as we all know) from scene to scene within the same movie, as well as from movie to movie. Try to offer up a definitive replica, and you wind up with emails from people saying, "in this screencap the buckles are this color, so your jacket is wrong", or whatever, and on and on.

Being somewhat of a collector of custom leather jackets, I know the level of insanity that people can drive these companies to with their Rainman-like obsession with minutiae. That's why a lot of companies don't even like to try and touch custom work. People are too difficult and unrealistic in their demands to deal with. I think Aero may have seen the level of OCD they'd be dealing with, and just said "too much of a headache". That's my guess.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:56 pm

Flightsuits used to do custom work, but it got to the point where they had to stop because they were losing so much money on those jackets. Some crazy fan would return a custom jacket and FS ended up with a jacket that went on the clearance rack and was hard to sell. Even when the jacket eventually did sell, they didn’t make a profit on it. You don’t stay in business doing that for very long.

Peter on the other hand does do custom work (his business is partially based on that), and he also takes back loads of your returned jackets. I surmise that he can do that only because he sells such volume and because he can get rid of those returned jackets with walk-in customers easier than most other companies. A huge selling point for Peter is being the originator of the Indy jacket. People that walk into his shop want to leave with a jacket. Most don’t know it’s a returned jacket from some crazy fan (not that he only sells returns in his shop).

The companies that make military reproductions (like Aero) spend a lot of money on the design of specific contract jackets (there were at least 20 makers of the A-2 jacket for instance). If they don’t get every minute detail correct, some freak will return the jacket. But at least there was a jacket to copy (even if some jackets made by the same manufacturer with the same contract number had different details in it's production run).

In the case of the Indy jacket, there aren’t even jackets to copy. The FS Expedition is one of the only Indy jackets derived from a screen used jacket. The US Wings pattern came from some jacket, but clearly some things were changed for their production pattern. Peter doesn’t have an original Indy jacket that I’m aware of. We think that he has basic patterns (as he’s stated), but clearly some of the details (such as pocket placement and things of that nature) are not included in those patterns. Even if these details were included in the original patterns (screen jacket variation doesn’t support this), he’s changed the details of the jacket so many times over the years to support what the fans want, that it hardly matters.

All the other jackets in production are based on two dimensional images or were derived from changes made to Wested or Flightsuits models. My point is that none of you guys are ever going to get a definitive Indy jacket. You should all learn to live with it and move on. Enjoy what you got. At least you have choices. Cheers

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:08 pm

HIGH regards, old friend!

Michaelson

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:36 pm

Rundquist wrote: Peter on the other hand does do custom work (his business is partially based on that), and he also takes back loads of your returned jackets. I surmise that he can do that only because he sells such volume and because he can get rid of those returned jackets with walk-in customers easier than most other companies. A huge selling point for Peter is being the originator of the Indy jacket. People that walk into his shop want to leave with a jacket. Most don’t know it’s a returned jacket from some crazy fan (not that he only sells returns in his shop).

I'm quite pleased that some jackets are returned, mine is one of those and it fits me quite well

I'm sure for some people who arrive on the door some of the details we pick up on here are completely irrelevant and they are perfectly happy.

It may be that some just did not fit.

I have seen bits of jackets cut up around the workshop, I can only guess that some "returns" are cut up to make smaller components like pocket flaps or pocket facings.

May I add that Peter will not take back a jacket that has any noticable wear, so even returns are "as new". Nothing wrong with that.

Oh, and it's a nice thing to turn up when he has a sale

.

Rundquist · Post by **Rundquist** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 2:58 pm

Michaelson wrote:

HIGH regards, old friend!

Michaelson

How ya doing!?

Kt Templar wrote:
Rundquist wrote: Peter on the other hand does do custom work (his business is partially based on that), and he also takes back loads of your returned jackets. I surmise that he can do that only because he sells such volume and because he can get rid of those returned jackets with walk-in customers easier than most other companies. A huge selling point for Peter is being the originator of the Indy jacket. People that walk into his shop want to leave with a jacket. Most don’t know it’s a returned jacket from some crazy fan (not that he only sells returns in his shop).
I'm quite pleased that some jackets are returned, mine is one of those and it fits me quite well

I'm sure for some people who arrive on the door some of the details we pick up on here are completely irrelevant and they are perfectly happy.

It may be that some just did not fit.

I have seen bits of jackets cut up around the workshop, I can only guess that some "returns" are cut up to make smaller components like pocket flaps or pocket facings.

May I add that Peter will not take back a jacket that has any noticable wear, so even returns are "as new". Nothing wrong with that.

Oh, and it's a nice thing to turn up when he has a sale .

Just to be clear, my point was not to say that Peter sells "used' jackets in his shop. You are correct in saying that the people that buy returned jackets are perfectly happy with the jackets as well.

My point is that the other companies can't sell a custom returned jacket as a regular item. Their market is different than Peter’s (Peter does deal with “crazies”, but he also deals with average walk-in clientele). With those jackets (custom returned), most companies are just trying to “cut their losses” by selling the jackets at a discount. It’s interesting that Peter uses some returned jackets “for parts” so to speak. If he didn’t do that, he’d be losing money too. He does lose out on the cost of the labor though. There’s no way to recoup that cost if he doesn’t sell the jacket as new or at a discount. When you sell a jacket at a discount, you just about break even. Again, you don't stay in business doing that. Cheers

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:04 pm

Rundquist wrote:
Michaelson wrote:

HIGH regards, old friend!

Michaelson
How ya doing!?

Hanging in there the best I can

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Flyer05 · Post by **Flyer05** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:35 pm

The problem is the "crazies". Lots of people are nuts. They have this expectation that somehow, a garment should fit them as though the maker had a full-sized model of their body for size reference, and for every minute detail to be produced as they see it in their mind's eye...as though it were made for them by the jacket gods, or something. Someone can receive what looks to be a pretty #### nice jacket and still find some surgical detail that doesn't meet their unattainable standard of perfection. I've seen this with flight jackets, too. People who obsess over the font on jacket labels, which apparently ruins the jacket and renders it a cheap repro.

There should be a support group for those with that level of dysfunction.

I am in agreement. People should learn to appreciate a well-made jacket for excatly what it is...a fine looking reproduction that should fit you decently. Usually, any faults to be found are more idiosyncratic obsessions as opposed to legitmate flaws, in which case they should steer clear of repros and learn to sew themselves, so that they can finally make their own "perfect" reproduction.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:09 pm

Rundquist wrote:Just to be clear, my point was not to say that Peter sells "used' jackets in his shop. You are correct in saying that the people that buy returned jackets are perfectly happy with the jackets as well.

My point is that the other companies can't sell a custom returned jacket as a regular item. Their market is different than Peter’s (Peter does deal with “crazies”, but he also deals with average walk-in clientele). With those jackets (custom returned), most companies are just trying to “cut their losses” by selling the jackets at a discount. It’s interesting that Peter uses some returned jackets “for parts” so to speak. If he didn’t do that, he’d be losing money too. He does lose out on the cost of the labor though. There’s no way to recoup that cost if he doesn’t sell the jacket as new or at a discount. When you sell a jacket at a discount, you just about break even. Again, you don't stay in business doing that. Cheers

I agree, I was going to add that your earlier post was the most level headed and downright sensible one I've heard in a while.

In addition some returns might end up on Peter's ongoing film work. I have no proof at all that the cut up jackets go to "retail" customers they may end up in the real "costume" jackets that are used on films.

davefelker · Post by **davefelker** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:11 pm

whiskyman wrote:I guess they bought the Westeds to copy the pattern - now they're selling them off.

I just bought the LC goatskin they were selling on ebay, I paid $235.00 for it and it is "new" that's for sure. They had two more which have already sold, one was a lambskin dark brown ROTL and the other was a authentic brown goatskin ROTL, and of course my authentic brown LC goatskin. I looked at their other auctions and the jackets were anywhere between $500 - $1000 each jacket!