Well, I just ordered a new S&W Model 22 revolver in .45acp. It's the "Thunder Ranch" one from last year. I found that Davidson's (a gun distributor) had a few left (www.galleryofguns.com). Now they only have 2 left, since I just took one! I'll go get it sometime next week at the local gunshop. Fortunately, the only "Thunder ranch" markings on this particular gun is an emblem on the grip panels. No gold @#$% like on the sideplate of the Thunder Ranch model 21 .44 special. I also found that Lew Horton has some of both of these as well, so if you're interested, have your favorite gun dealer check into them for you. IF I can get ahold of some deer/elk antler large enough, without paying as much as I did for the gun itself, I intend to make the grip panels out of it.
This one is going to cost me $750. I don't often spend that much money on a modern gun....
I emailed S&W about their new "classic" line (which includes a more-or-less classicly styled model 36, model 29, model 21, model 22, and even the five inch model 1917), and when they expect them to become available. Haven't heard back from them yet. They are all to be available in blued, nickel, and with a "color case hardened" frame (though I know full well it isn't really! )
Lew Horton has the model 24 and 25 available (with the wierd 3" barrel...why on earth would anyone want an N frame gun with a 3" barrel?? and adjustable sights to boot?).
"Real" S&W model 1917's seem to be going for about $675-$750 right now, and I would NOT want to cut one down just to make an "Indy gun" out of one! (several years ago, all these 1917's were brought in from Argentina, I believe it was, and you could buy them all day long for 300 some-odd-many dollars or maybe even less! Being only about 23 or so at the time, I didn't have the green, but I sure wanted one!)
I've had one for a bit now. Love it. I've found that at 25 yards 230 grain Ball and HP's are POA/POI, 200 grain shoots a bit low. At 7 yards, it's all good.
The customer service representative at S&W just got back to me and told me that unfortunately, they haven't been told yet just when the classic line is going to be available. He told me to check back in early March, when they should have something concrete to tell me. So, SOMETIME this year, you should be able to get all the different classic models.
If a gun is not on the State of California's Attorney General's "approved list" it can't be sold, purchased and in some cases possessed in California.
There's a process manufacturer's have to go through, some drop tests and such, to get added. It was justified as a "safety measure" but that obviously wasn't its real purpose as the same guns are sold safely in every other state without such testing.
You must pass a written safety test, (good for five years) then a background check, (each purchase) along with a 10 day waiting period. Also, depending on the piece, you either have to have an approved gun safe or a weapon specific locking device. Plus, you can only buy one handgun at a time and only one handgun a month.
There is a restriction on magazine capacity too. (10 rounds)
I recently acquired a Thunder Ranch as well. Bought it in Nevada. I had been holding out, well actually holding on to my pennies, but my local dealer ran a check and told me it was the last one in that region's distribution center so I had to grab it. Paid $690 plus tax. It is a great feeling firearm and the 4inch barrel suits it, especially for easy carry in and out of a vehicle or a saddle. I mostly wear a Navy issue G1 and it fits into the interior chart pocket nicely.
After about 30 rounds at 20 yards my grouping was consistently 2inches right and 2inches low, while my other handguns grouped within the center as they should. Upon close inspection I realized that my front sight was visibly askew to the left. It is a pinned front sight so I do not think that it was set properly, or got damaged in shipping. The gun was not shipped in a hard case with foam cut outs, but a softsided range bag with the
'Thunder Ranch' emblem stitched on the side. (Actually a handy bag, and something that I always have to buy afterwards anyhow). I am phoning S&W tomorrow for a warranty return and repair with a bench test. They are usually pretty good about such issues, I'll let you know.
Also, FYI, the first couple hundred of the product run had the barrels set incorrectly and grouped low/left. S&W acknowledged this and has sent out a 'recall' of sorts, or at least a notification and accountability for full repair. One of the editors of 'Guns Magazine' did a full write up and report on this gun with much favor. He had input into the gun's final design engraving and grips. He has gun number 006, and aided in the determination of the barrel issue.
Fatdutchman wrote:
Lew Horton has the model 24 and 25 available (with the wierd 3" barrel...why on earth would anyone want an N frame gun with a 3" barrel?? and adjustable sights to boot?).
Count me in as one of those crazies who prefer short barreled N frames with adjustable sights. The lighter the belt gun when hiking and the like, the better. You'd be amazed just how accurate these can be with with adjustable sights....even with a short barrel.
Ease of packing. Easy to sight.....and once you get accustomed to the muzzle flash and recoil (which you do), they're a joy to carry.
As you know, it's a mindset thing, if the pistol is primarily for "defense" (which also explains the concealable short barrel lengths) a lot of folks prefer fixed sights as "one less thing to break/go wrong".
If it is a general purpose field gun then adj. sights make sense so you can adjust them for various loads.
Personally I like a bit longer barrel and adj. sights on field guns to maximize the various velocitys of different loads and, since I'm carrying the gun openly, it isn't that unwieldy to go to 5 or 6 inches. The saving in ounces? Meh, I've got a lot of other ounces I shuld trim before i worry about a quarter pound of barrel.
Anyway, my field revolver up here is (now) a 6" 629, a little more weight makes that a LOT more comfy to shoot.
I've carried both, carebear, and have found the shorter the barrel, the easier the go for me...especially if I'm doing a lot of walking, crouching, or sitting. I have a 7 inch barreled Super Blackhawk, and have found a crossdraw holster the only way to pack that wheelgun comfortably.
I've carried many a 4 inch model 29 in the field, and a 3 inch would be even better in my opinion, especially as a backup gun to a rifle....rifle being primary weapon in the field anyway.
Like you say, it's all a matter of personal preference.
I agree Michaelson, its a matter of personal preference. I've found my 4" S&W Mountain Gun rides quite comfortably on my hip. Really, I can almost forget about it. I carry mine In my Raiders holster on a sperate belt along with a bowie knife. I've here in the thick underbrush of southern WV a full flap holster is a real good idea.
carebear, what type of cheast rig did you get? I'm thinking about ordering a M2 style for my 1911 from El Paso Saddlery. They definitely work better than a hip holster of wearing a pack or long coat.
I am phoning S&W tomorrow for a warranty return and repair with a bench test. They are usually pretty good about such issues, I'll let you know.
Just got off the phone with S&W. They were great to speak with, very receptive and helpful. They are paying the shipping both ways and stating that they will inspect the piece thoroughly, as well as correct and test. It will be about two weeks before I can complete the transaction and get back to the range, so another update to follow.
I realize I am getting a bit off topic and personal in my subject here, so perhaps I should start a new thread with this when I follow up for those interested.
Well, I went and picked up the pistol today. First impression was that I was pleased with the overall quality. Everything seems fitted fairly well and nicely finished. Is it equal to the Smith and Wessons of the '70's and earlier? Well, almost. It is definitely nicer than some of them from the '80's and '90's. The trigger and hammer are case hardened, but they are very obviously made from investment castings, rather than forged and milled. I was actually surprised to see this. I can live with it, though. The silly little lock on the side is unobtrusive, I suppose, but is something that they would do well to delete on all future models (but of course, they won't). I am considering getting rid of it and filling the hole in the frame. I can do it so that it is nearly invisible. I probably won't, but I might. The lug that holds the cylinder in place when open and ejecting is smaller than it should be. It just BARELY catches the cylinder. I had a problem with my 681 in that the cylinder would actually pass over the stud. I manufactured a new stud from S.S. and now it's better than new. IF this ever becomes a problem on the new gun, I am capable of fixing it, but shouldn't have to. The lug could easily stand to be twice the height that it is, since there are no rims on the cartridges to interfere with it... Probably it will never cause a problem, but I foresee that it COULD...
Other than these minor (to me) problems, I am quite happy with the piece.
I shot it today too. I only had 8 rounds of .45 left, after shooting most of what I had up a few days ago in my .45 auto. I loaded up 6 shots into a clip and took it out in the backyard and shot at a target consisting of a black spot about 2" across on a scrap piece of Luan plywood. At about 20 yards or so, 5 of my 6 shots were pretty well dead center, grouped only about an inch lower than point of aim. I had one flyer low and left (I'm pretty shaky...always have been). The 5 good shots were in a group about 3" across, with one of them in my little black spot. For me offhand, that's pretty good. I was suitably impressed. It definitely shoots better than my automatic.
The recoil was about on par with the .45 gov't auto, though I perhaps felt it a bit more, owing to the grips. I can actually hold them pretty well (even with my really large hands), but I sure got a rap on the knuckle of my middle finger from the triggerguard. I'm going to have to come up with a pair of grips to fill this area. I have made a few sets of grips for S&W revolvers, and let me tell you, it is not a task for the feint of heart. It is an absolute pain. You have to inlet the grips on three different levels, on each grip, all meeting up right at the same time. It's a nightmare! A quick, cheap way to go, by the way, is to get a set of the old oversize "target" grips that came on S&W guns in the '50's, '60's and '70's and shape them to suit...no inletting to have to worry about.
Other than the triggerguard hitting my knuckle (smaller handed folks may or may not have this problem), it feels good in the hand, and I can handle a revolver like this much more comfortably and naturally than I can an automatic pistol.
Playing around with the clips, I found that I could probably load the gun as fast as I can with an automatic! Some recommend having the chambers slightly chamfered to aid in loading, and I may do this eventually as well, but it still loads plenty easily as it is. Indy would have had 3-shot "half moon" clips, instead of the "full moon" six shot clips, but he still would have found it much faster to load this way than with loose ammo (it will fire loose cartridges, by the way, but you have to claw out the empties with your fingernails or something, since the extractor grabs the moon clip, and there is nothing on the case for it to get a purchase on).
It was "relatively" easy to snap the shells into the clips with my hands (the last shell is the hardest, since you've taken up all the spring room on the clip). They used to load them by using an old .45 auto barrel as a handle for snapping the shells in and out of the clips. I thought I had one laying around in the shop, but couldn't find it. They make a screwdriver-handled tool that does the same thing available from Brownell's. I would suspect that Midway has them too. I ordered some of the plastic moon clips, which are supposed to be a breeze to load and unload. The clips are definitely cheaper than good .45 auto magazines!!!
The single action trigger pull is typical S&W glass-rod-breaking crisp...nothing like it. The double action pull is a tad heavier than my other older Smiths. This can be changed a bit, if desired, by replacing the rebound spring with a lighter one.
Overall, I like it. I am VERY hard to impress with anything, but especially with guns. It will serve well as a self defense/field/plinking gun, and the reloading capabilities of a gun like this make it pretty much superior to any other type of revolver (ever seen Jerry Miculek?). It definitely has a nice 1950's look and feel, which I certainly appreciate, especially in this day of Stainless steel, Titanium, Scandium (whatever that is), laser sights, compensators, "accessory rails", etc.
So, if you're looking for a gun like this, I can recommend it. If you can't find them right now, later on this year, S&W will be making a new run of this gun, along with the model 21 .44 special (unfortunately still with the round butt...ugh), the 1917 .45 acp, and also a model 36, which is kinda ugly since they extended the frame rearwards around the hammer apparently to accomodate the ridiculous little lock mechanism. All these will be available in blue/black, case hardened, and nickel.
My only complaint with S&W is the locks. I've heard a few tales of them engaging during firing. Although I don't know how true that is, it a bit worrisome.
Indy Flyer, S&W will take care of you. I recently had to send a revolver back to them due to a bizarre trigger problem. They had the gun back to me in 9 days from the time it left my door. (and that included a holiday)
I spend a LOT of time on the gun boards. Hey it beats drinking... I think...
Anyway, thus far every "it happened to me" story on lock engagement I'm aware of has been found to be undocumented, with most quickly going from "me" to "my brother" to "a guy my brother knows" to "a brother from another planet".
Not saying it can't happen but to my knowledge the more experienced gun writers who now seriously research this stuff, like Dean Spier, Massad Ayoob and Charlie Petty, haven't received any concrete examples of it happening yet.
It appears to be worth worrying about only as much as worrying about any other part in the trigger group suddenly deciding to break, ie not at all on a gun in good repair.
carebear wrote:I spend a LOT of time on the gun boards. Hey it beats drinking... I think...
Anyway, thus far every "it happened to me" story on lock engagement I'm aware of has been found to be undocumented, with most quickly going from "me" to "my brother" to "a guy my brother knows" to "a brother from another planet".
Not saying it can't happen but to my knowledge the more experienced gun writers who now seriously research this stuff, like Dean Spier, Massad Ayoob and Charlie Petty, haven't received any concrete examples of it happening yet.
It appears to be worth worrying about only as much as worrying about any other part in the trigger group suddenly deciding to break, ie not at all on a gun in good repair.
I totally agree. I haven't been able to find any credible stories either.
I spend a lot of time on gun borads as well and I've found its even more fun if you drink. On that note I just realized that I've got a .45 auto, a snubby .38, 162 rounds of ammo and a glass of Jim Beam on the desk in front of me. Something tells me thats a bad combinations.
carebear wrote:You're missing the tobacco and explosives is all.
I draw my line at drinking and handling guns. Presuming I don't drink so much that I get stupid, they won't cause any problems just sitting there.
Like the .45 in front of me.
Yea, I totally agree. Drinking and guns don't mix at all. It was just kind of funny that as I was posting, I realized what as on my desk. I been to Wal-Mart earlier to pick up some ammo. (bought the last 150 rounds of Blazer Brass .45ACP) When I came in I ploped it down on my desk, took off my snubby .38 and extra speed loader layed it down as well. I then preceeded to do a bit of dryfiring pratice with my 1911. Being the lazy bum I am I just left every thing where it was in stead of putitng it up. I then fixed myself a drink, sat down and started surfing the net. Your post made me realize what a combination I had laying around.
carebear wrote:Amazing what a simple yet great solution that little piece of metal is.
I was using a Pachmayr Decelerator Grip, and frankly, I felt like a ###### bag. I went back to the Magna's, and my self-esteem soared. The T grip will tie it all together.
) 
](./images/smilies/Indy_wall.gif "Brick wall"){kind=small}
Something tells me thats a bad combinations. 
