Another Raiders block revision

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:51 pm

Yes, once again I am revising my Raiders block. This had been after several months of intense study in association with Mr Garrison, the surveyor that has been working with Lamode on improving the Raiders block. I got the 3rd attempt in yesterday and will have to reblock one of his ABs to see what it yields. He brought up a few weaknesses on the current Raiders block shape, and being as anal as I am, I plan on having a new run of blocks made that I feel I will finally be satisifed with, 100 per cent. An exact copy of the Raiders block used in the first film.

For those that like the caricatures of the Raiders hat, I will be more than happy to give that to you upon request. Otherwise, I will start using the new blocks as soon as I can afford to get a whole set made. I am doing this for me, a personal quest and our surveyor got me interested again in doing so. To all it may not appear to be the proper one, but I am absolutely certain today what this block shape entails, and that is why I will still offer my old block style along with the new one. I want to get the caricature out of the perceptions, for me mostly, and this new block will certainly do that. Now, I have not copied his block exactly, but I have added one very important facet, that arose in his quest. This last block he sent from lamode has nailed the final nail in a weak area of my own Raiders block. I doubt if most folks will even notice the nuance, but I will, and that is all that is important to me. Just wanted you guys to know, that I have been on a quest for years now, and I feel finally I have arrived at what I set out to do. It is a good feeling. Fedora

bleyd · Post by **bleyd** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:11 pm

Look forward to seeing what comes out of these blocks. I have to get one of these JUST for the mere fact of the time and effort you've put into the Raiders lid.

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:03 pm

What is the wait time for a reblock gonna be now, Fedora?

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:50 pm

I hope you'll post a pic of a hat made with this new block for the benefit of those of us that DO appreciate and notice the nuances.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:53 pm

whiskyman wrote:I hope you'll post a pic of a hat made with this new block for the benefit of those of us that DO appreciate and notice the nuances.

Same here

-GCR

VP · Post by VP » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:55 pm

Who the heck is this local surveyor Mr. Garrison that Steve talks about all the time?

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:57 pm

You don't know?? He sometimes calls himself Harrison Ford

VP · Post by VP » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:58 pm

I thought he was in Wyoming, so he can't be a _local_ surveyor.

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 4:03 pm

VP wrote:Who the heck is this local surveyor Mr. Garrison that Steve talks about all the time?

You know, the guy on South Park...

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:07 pm

Fedoraman wrote:
VP wrote:Who the heck is this local surveyor Mr. Garrison that Steve talks about all the time?
You know, the guy on South Park...

Isn't he the one with "Mr. Hat"? Coincidence?

-GCR

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:00 pm

Who the heck is this local surveyor Mr. Garrison that Steve talks about all the time?

I call him our local surveyor out of fun. Actually David hails from Atlanta, is a surveyor and has bought several hats from me. He has been studing "the hat" in great detail starting earlier last year. When he received my vintage Hj to peruse, he was convinced this was the Raiders fedora, right away, and this started his quest in replicating it exactly. So far, he has paid to have 3 blocks made, with each one still not quite matching what he saw on the vintage HJ. I have the 3rd one now, and have a hat on it drying. Most of the pics I have posted of the hat, and all of those pics with the rulers inserted all came from him. He doesn't post here, but does read occassionally. No great mystery about him, just another obsessed chap, and that is one reason we get along so well, and the reason I am addressing the block shape once again.

He is also a guy who wears his hats while at work, in the elements and was the first customer that proved just how taper resistant my hats are when worn like a hat is supposed to be worn.

Needless to say, I was overjoyed when a guy who works with angles and shapes joined in the quest. That sort of eye is always welcomed. Fedora

Post by **Dalexs** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:26 pm

Fedora wrote:... I plan on having a new run of blocks made that I feel I will finally be satisifed with, 100 per cent. An exact copy of the Raiders block used in the first film.

Yeah, this coming from a guy who 2 years ago said he was
A) Retiring
B) Making hats for a relaxing pastime...

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:08 am

Dalexs wrote:Yeah, this coming from a guy who 2 years ago said he was
A) Retiring
B) Making hats for a relaxing pastime...

I am obsessed!! The retirement should have happened. I blame it all on one dag gummed hat!!! Until I see one that I think is perfect, I ain't quitting. Hey, this can actually be fun as long as you have patient customers!!!

Of course, I do spend more time on these things than I would like, at times, but at least I ain't our chasing women and bar hopping.

We all have heard of the old saw in regards to "idle hands"

I was a pretty happy guy until Garrison made me look at block shapes again.

He saw something that was on the Raiders fedora, that was not visible on other hats, including my own!! That is all that it took to get me obsessed again with the block shape. Now, many of us would not see what he saw, but when he pointed, I could not ignore his observation.

The thing is, you can take any hat block that doesn't have much taper and create a Raiders fedora from it. And most will say it is perfect. But, until you really get into this hatmaking deal, it is hard to pick up the imperfections right off the bat. And to most those areas are not important. To me, they are the only importance, and a puzzle, begging to be solved. I can't help myself!!!

3M$ is obsessed with replicating that SOC hat. I am obsessed with replicating the exact block shape used that lended the Cairo hat. Not just a close copy, but an exact copy. David Garrison is just as obsessed as I am, perhaps more so, as we have talked for hours and hours on the phone in the last 5 to 6 months. It brings back memories of Marc and I doing this same thing. David brings to the table something else though. The knowledge and mathmatics of a surveyor, and his input has been very valuable and helpful. Plus, he is spending several hundred bucks in the quest and having different blocks made so we can test them out on felt, while incorporating certain things in the block shape that has been weak points in these hats. So, the new block will be the results of me, Marc and David. He just refined what Marc and I came up with and had become satisfied with.

In the end, hopefully, I will have the perfect block, and although it will not be much different than my own blocks, the caricatures will be done away with in this new set. No blocked in reverse taper on the back, as that is NOT a part of the Raiders blockshape. ALthough, I will still have the blocks to use if you want this sort of thing. The back will be straight, and if you want want the reverse taper, you gotta do to that hat what the SOC had presented. A bulge that looks like blocked in reverse taper.

Over the last few years, I have tweaked my blocks in order to please me, but a few times has been to address certain things like this blocked in reverse taper that concerned some customers. In doing so, I moved away from the original block shape. I just want to get back to what the original block shape was is all. Many times hatters try to give the customer his perceptions, even when they feel they are in left field. I will still do that of course, but will also offer what I THINK the original hat was. Then, if you don't like it, I will still have the tried and true original block to use to please you.

Fedora

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:00 pm

Here is the revised blockshape. Pardon the pics. The first run were too dark and blurry, and this run has too much flash. But, you can see the outline of the hat and that is good. The guy who ordered this hat just wanted a generic Raiders fedora, if you were wondering about which scene it was to emulate. So, this is just my generic Raiders crease job. The hat was only turned slightly, and he wanted the ribbon centered more than being towards the front of the hat. It is a size 7, 5 1/2 tall in the open crown state. Now, it probably looks like any other AB, but there are some nuances going on here, that you may not catch.

I will try and get some outside in better lighting in a few to show it better.

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:23 pm

Looks like you block has shelac on it now...is that new?

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:09 pm

Wow that looks good. Something about it seems a tiny bit more full in the top of the crown - could be an optical illusion of course but are the nuances a secret? What are they?!

Kaplan · Post by **Kaplan** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 3:57 pm

What orders are going to receive this treatment? Will it be everything from this date on? or will it be the orders that are pending but yet unmade?
-GC

Indiana Cromeens · Post by **Indiana Cromeens** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:06 pm

I really like the way that looks Steve, absolutely beautiful, is that block the winner or are you going to modify it more?

Raiders-Energizer · Post by **Raiders-Energizer** » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:48 pm

I like what I'm looking at, I hope you can make mine like that, but I'm willing to wait seeing as though my order is back in January 16......

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:05 am

Guess my camera was low on battery power as it died while I was trying to get some outside pics. These look like they were taken by an amateur(which I confess to) but perhaps they will be helpful in getting a better idea of the blockshape.

I really like the way that looks Steve, absolutely beautiful, is that block the winner or are you going to modify it more?

This is my latest revision. I only have it in a size 7 and used it on this hat going to Germany, that I mailed out yesterday. After this latest project with David, and the time he has spent on this project, I just don't think there is anywhere else to go with the blockshape. The area that he noticed that could be improved has been addressed in this last revision.

What orders are going to receive this treatment? Will it be everything from this date on? or will it be the orders that are pending but yet unmade?

Alas, it will be sometime before I can get a whole set made. It will be sometime later in this year. With that said, most will notice little difference in this block and the one I have been using. I can see it right off, but I look at these things 12 to 14 hours a day.

Wow that looks good. Something about it seems a tiny bit more full in the top of the crown - could be an optical illusion of course but are the nuances a secret? What are they?!

Thanks. The nuances are no secret at all. If you are bored with technical hat stuff, stop reading now!!

The Raiders fedora has a particular radius or curvature where the sides form the crown. This is created by the several things, which I won't go into. Suffice to say, just more than one facet is involved. That area has been tweaked.

Another area is the front and back taper, or lack of it. Overtime, I had changed this area of the block to give reverse taper, that is, a blocked in reverse taper, while this was never present in the film hat. This is one of the caricatures that I had revised into my Raiders blockshape, and for the sake of true accuracy, I must get rid of it. When an original Raiders HJ was creased, in the new state, the back was perfectly straight, and that is what I had to move back to. A blocked in reverse taper creates a hat where the length of the crown on top is longer than the crown at the sweatband. Totally inaccurate, although many fans have insisted upon this in their hats.

The film hats bulges, which gives the illusion of a block that had reverse taper.

And finally, the shape of the arc on the creased Raiders fedora when seen from the sides. Many other hats look flattish on the top, when creased the correct depth on the front and back. So, the arc has been tweaked, and like the radius I mentioned earlier, a couple of things are involved in this arc. It is odd how another part of a hat block affects another area, and this presents problems to anyone trying to reverse engineer a block.

What is so funny about this whole deal, at least to me, is after David sent me this latest block from Lamode to block a hat on, a lightbulb came on and I looked and found some pics I had taken of one of my vintage HJ Poets, one made from a stiffer felt, and one that due to this fact, really kept the original blockshape intact. It seems his(our) fresh look at the original Raiders block, and the work that he has had done by Lamode took us right back to the vintage Poet. Sometimes in the heat of the quest, you forget that you used to have a 3 D representation of the block.

And in a stiff felt so you can tell better what the hat started out as.

Of course, getting from what you see in that HJ block, to a wood block that you can use is quite a chore, and very time consuming and it ain't cheap which explains why only a few of us have even attempted this. But, it is one of the most important parts that is essential in offering these hats for sale. A good hat stylist, can take a fairly straight sided hat and make it look very similiar to the Raiders fedora, due to his or her ability at molding the felt, but if you are a hatter, the nuances that are missing kicks you in the face. Those are the nuances that I am obsessed with. Fedora

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:59 am

Wow. So awesome. Funny - this is what I was going to guess that one of the nuances was. My amature eye would have said that a little tiny bit more fullness had been added not on the top, not on the side, but on the top of the side.

Or something like that. So that not only is the radius affected but there is sllightly more material with which to get a deeper bash in the right areas.

WoW.

marco polo · Post by **marco polo** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:42 am

That's a fine looking hat Fedora!

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:23 pm

Wow. So awesome. Funny - this is what I was going to guess that one of the nuances was. My amature eye would have said that a little tiny bit more fullness had been added not on the top, not on the side, but on the top of the side.

Or something like that. So that not only is the radius affected but there is sllightly more material with which to get a deeper bash in the right areas.

Good eye. I was just thinking about it and even with my current blocks, the ones that are straight on the front and back, have a built in taper resistor. Hmm, taper resistor, sounds amost electronic.

What I mean about it is this. 9 times out of ten, the first thing that tapers on a straight sided hat is the front and back. Why, I dunno, but I have seen it too many times over the years. So,the current straighter front and back will eventually taper a bit and there you have it! You tapered into my new Raiders block.

It will work the same on the sides as well. I tweaked the radius that forms the dome a bit, but once the current block shape shrinks a little in that area, you are at the newer block shape.

I have not done many AB reblocks, and I guess that is good, but the few that I have done, only a couple reallly needed the reblock. Many times, I was lowering the crown heights in some of these and of course had to reblock them to the lower height. I got back a hat a couple of months ago that I made prior to officially going online with these hats. It was my first or second hat using my feltmaker. I may have mentioned this prior, but it is worth repeating. Anyways, I pull the hat out of the box, and it was filthy, the ribbon had pulled loose(my ribbon stitching work was subpar that first month of hatting) and it looked like the TOD fedora due to the taper. Ugh. But, I say, well, this hat has been worn, and worn outside alot and it is 2 1/2 years old. Well, I steam the hat and punched out the creases, and smoothed the felt out and let it dry. I noticed right away that it look pretty darn straight now in the open crown state, So I dry creased it and it looked great. It really did not need a reblock, in fact, the little shrinkage that had occurred actually made it look better. Of course I noted this as I was involved in the block revision at the time. Still in the rethinking stage................. Just rambling here. Took a break as a hat dries from the blocking and had to check here.

I really get off on this technical stuff. Fedora

Dr.Seuss · Post by **Dr.Seuss** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:45 pm

That, is attention to detail. So, there are two Raiders block shapes/styles being offered in the AB line? Any direct comparisons, to help the AB envious contemplate which style to order.

Sincerely,

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:04 pm

I don't suppose it's been long enough to have any other sizes of the new block yet?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:19 pm

So, there are two Raiders block shapes/styles being offered in the AB line? Any direct comparisons, to help the AB envious contemplate which style to order.

I don't have pics yet. But just imagine the AB block with just a little taper on the front and back to morph the reg oval into the round oval. The taper of course creases out, the way that taper tends to do if it isn't too extreme. I will eventually have both sets. Since most folks see the hat as being straighter than what I think it actually was, this second block will only be used by request. Why monkey with what most folks already like? Add to that the fact that the first place a hat will taper is on the front and back. So, my original block would simply morph into the revised block over time anyways. You end up with it at some point in time. Fedora

Kilgour Trout · Post by **Kilgour Trout** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:34 pm

Once in a million years it's great to have a small head!!!

As I sit here on a teleconference, I can actually get away using the office computer for a very few minutes.

Steve this is an amazing hat. It is indeed perfect.

I hope to have a computer soon.

I miss You's Guys

Cheers
Kilgour Trout

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:36 pm

Who WAS that masked man?

We've missed you too, Kilgour

HIGH regards! Michaelson

Post by **Dalexs** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:05 pm

Would somebody PLEASE buy that man a camera that can take good pics!!!!

OR pull $$$ out of the company petty cash draw and fly me down and I'll take the pics!

Bogie1943 · Post by **Bogie1943** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:12 pm

The pics may not be perfect, lol, but I don't care, from what I see that block looks amazing.

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:15 am

I'd like to see some pics of Mr. Garrison's weathered hats.

JKL
Ron

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:14 am

Would somebody PLEASE buy that man a camera that can take good pics!!!!

I think it is the operator!!!! I come from the old school and used to use my old Canon AE-1 for my pics when I had a scanner. Rick5150 gave me this digital camera, and it really is a good camera, if you know how to work it.

As you can see, I have not learned how to do so!! Plus, I have to buy batteries by the 24 pack. It literally eats them up in no time. But it is a handy thing, and I am sure one year I will finally learn how to use it properly. I can't find an adjustment for the f-stop or shutter speed anywhere on it!!

Fedora

VP · Post by VP » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:27 am

Get those nifty rechargeable batteries. What make and model is the digicam?

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:30 pm

Pick up an Energizer 15-Minute Charger (Walmart, Target, Home Depot…) and a pack of rechargeable batteries with the highest mAh rating you can find, 2500 – 2900 mAh for AAs, and you’ll probably never need to buy another set of batteries for the life of the camera! With the money you save on alkalines, it will pay for itself in no time.

The Energizer 15-Minute is a “smart” charger that allows you to charge 1-4 batteries in 15-20 minutes. I love mine.

- Mac

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:42 pm

Fedora wrote: I think it is the operator!!!!

That reminds me of the old PEBCAK acronym used when computer support desks realize that it just might not be the computer that is the cause of the problems.

PEBCAK keeps the person from being offended - that is until he or she finds that it means "Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard"

Another Raiders block revision

Another Raiders block revision

Re: Another Raiders block revision

What providence eh!