Thought about IJ4 hats

squidkidd · Post by **squidkidd** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:45 pm

Assuming the movie is going ahead, somebody has to be making the hats. Now from bits and pieces heard through the grapevine, it appears they (Lucas et al.) want a return to the raiders look. Now, it would not be that far out of the question I don't think for the person making the hats for IJ4 to request to see an actual screen used raiders hat to you know, "get the details right." Just putting the thought out there for people to consider *nudge nudge wink wink*

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:58 pm

Even if "some one" could get a hold of one, they would probably be a poor example after this long. I doubt there is a surviving Raiders hat that still looks like a Raiders hat. It would be cool to see, even in poor condition, none the less.

bleyd · Post by **bleyd** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:04 pm

What do you think the odds are at them using AB's for the next movie? OR do you think they'll just look HJ back up again.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:07 pm

If he who shall not be named was telling the truth, they have to go with some one else as HJ just doesn't seem to have it together to do a Raiders looking hat. (Fedora still trusts "him")

GoneSolo · Post by **GoneSolo** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:29 pm

Lord Voldemort?

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:44 pm

Don't say his name!

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:53 pm

doesn't pagey have a raiders HJ that fedora sold him. its a great looking hat from what i've seen.....in great condition too.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:02 pm

Indiana G wrote:doesn't pagey have a raiders HJ that fedora sold him. its a great looking hat from what i've seen.....in great condition too.

From what I understand, it's a "Raiders era" HJ from the late 70's or very early 80's, though I'm not sure if it's an actual "Poet" model, or some other HJ fedora. It sure looks dead-on to me, though. A really fantastic hat. They don't make 'em like they used to!

As far as I know, this hat was in excellent condition (even, I think, open crown) and had been taken care of during it's first 30 or so years of being. An actual Raiders hat, used in the film, would probably be a total mess by today. Heck, I would think the majority of those hats you can see on that archive video are probably in pretty tough shape by now, and I doubt any of them were Raiders hats.

If we ever see Indy 4 (I'm still not convinced it'll happen) I'm guessing the costume dept. will go with the obvious choice...Dorfman Pacific.

-GCR

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:07 pm

i hope they leave the hat-pin in then!

Indiana Kev · Post by **Indiana Kev** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:57 pm

Yes! Use the DP then I will have a screen acruate hat!

Maybe Lucas will google "Indiana Jones Fedora" and find the Adventurebilt site!...or at least find this forum to get some ideas on the best hat to use.

I can see it now, post number one from GeorgeLucas: "Hey everyone, George Lucas here, just wanting to find a good hat to use for the upcoming film." I bet that post would get a warm reception.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:10 am

GoneSolo wrote:Lord Voldemort?

Come to think of it he could have been him......

As far as the film goes I'm not "assuming" it's going to happen anymore. This last set of announcements pretty much confirms it for me.

With that said the people in charge are probably already starting to design costumes for the film. I wish I could say they were going for the "Raiders look" with Indy in this latest one but there is no proof whatsoever that they are. Given that this will be set in the 50's I'm going to guess the gear we see in 4 will be a progression from the gear we saw in LC.

If anyone saw the Young Indy episode with Ford guest starring Indy was in full LC gear, including the tie , and that was set in 1950. Unless they ignore that I can see Indy popping up in 4 still wearing that stupid tie and the hat probably looking further away from the Raiders hat than ever before.

I'm not trying to be a "wet blanket" but I don't want to see people getting their hopes up over "rumors" that were posted here over a year ago that had no evidence to back them up.

Even though I don't like the idea it does make more sense that Indy's "gear" would evolve over time instead of revert back to the exact "look" we all love from Raiders......

Who knows though......maybe they'll surprise us.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:00 am

Pitfall Harry wrote: If anyone saw the Young Indy episode with Ford guest starring Indy was in full LC gear, including the tie , and that was set in 1950. Unless they ignore that I can see Indy popping up in 4 still wearing that stupid tie and the hat probably looking further away from the Raiders hat than ever before.

Who knows though......maybe they'll surprise us.

I saw that episode, I actually have the VHS version that they released back in the late 90's. I just watched it this past September, and from what I recall, the FEDORA Ford wore was NOT all that bad. Was it a Raiders fedora? NO. Is it just "Raiders" enough that it might satisfy a Raiders purist? Doubt it. But it was not bad looking as far as Indy hats go. better than MANY of the hats that appear in parts of ToD and LC, in my opinion.

As for the rest of the gear, it looked to be mostly LC surplus. The jacket looked LC, and as you mentioned, he also wore the LC style tie plus items we've never seen such as a scarf and cardigan type sweater. If they had to use Myserty of the Blues as a starting point for the Indy 4 gear, they could do worse. (again, my opinion)

-GCR

doc riviere · Post by **doc riviere** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:01 am

squirdkid wrote:
they (Lucas et al.) want a return to the raiders look

where did you heard that ?? Lucas and spielberg said raiders style or spirit for the 4 episode, i'm not sur they talk about look or gear, and i think for them there is no differences between raiders or last crusade

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:55 am

Spielberg browses fan sites for sure- look at the response www.spielbergfilms.com has had from the man himself...

I think it's highly likely if not 100% certain that Amblin/Lucasfilm know about this and other Indy fan sites... it's not that hard to do research on topics like this with such a dedicated fan base.

Why you'd return to the look of Raiders, when Indy IV is set so many years after the events of the first film mystifies me. It's a different hat for every film- I expect this to continue... it'll be a distinctive Indy IV hat.

Even if they do try to evoke the Raiders look, they won't get it right anyway... no way...

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 6:49 am

I like what David Koepp said on that site in reference to Raiders:

"The worst thing to do would be to have him make reference to things he said in the first movie, like to pun on lines of dialogue," Koepp insists. "That’s tempting, because you’ve seen the movie a hundred times and you know all the dialogue, but no human being remembers exactly what they said 25 years ago word for word, much less make reference to it.

Apparently, he's never talked to any of us!

geo · Post by **geo** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:13 am

First, I'm convinced that 4 will happen, and that they'll start filming it this year. However, after Star Wars, I'm not sure that it's a good thing that 4 will happen.

I don't think that Lucas nor Spielberg are able to see a difference between the hat in Raiders and the hat in the following 2 movies. For continuity's sake, I think they'll want to keep everything the same, and they'll go to the original suppliers. I would bet that the hat will be an HJ, since it's the hat they used in the other movies and there's no reason for them to look for another supplier. The fact that the HJ doesn't stand a rough treatment doesn't bother them, as it didn't bother them before, because they can buy as many as they like, and use a different hat in each scene, if they need to.

Another possibility would be to have hats from more than one supplier, like in Temple, and use mainly HJs, with one or two other supplier's hats being used in some scenes. But I don't see a motivation for them to do this.

squidkidd · Post by **squidkidd** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:31 am

Lord Voldemort.

doc riviere wrote:squirdkid wrote:
they (Lucas et al.) want a return to the raiders look

where did you heard that ?? Lucas and spielberg said raiders style or spirit for the 4 episode, i'm not sur they talk about look or gear, and i think for them there is no differences between raiders or last crusade

Though I do agree that in the eyes of Lucas and Spielberg, I doubt they see much of a difference in gear changes. It's probably all the same to them.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 9:10 am

Ford, on the other hand, is a detail man, and is probably our 'ace in the hole' when it comes to continuity of character and dress.

Regards! Michaelson

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 11:39 am

In some ways I hope your right Michaelson and in some ways I hope your wrong. It's a good thing if Ford is a stickler for detail when it comes to the gear, especially the hat. The problem is though if they go by "continuity" then we'll be seeing that TIE again.....

And possibly the rest of the LC look. Which by the way wasn't bad and I think the only beef I had was the tie.

Seriously, that thing made no sense. We all know these were Indy's "work clothes" and even the character knew he was bound to end up in some kind of a scuffle IF he didn't then why carry the gun and whip? So if Indy knew that then why would you wear something that could be used against you in a fist fight? All it would have took was someone grabbing the tie and choking him with it. Of course if it was a clip on then this whole rant is moot.

doc riviere · Post by **doc riviere** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:19 pm

if the story is during the 50's we'll see for sure some change in the costume !
i dont think we'll see indy with gun and whip to the belt ...

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:29 pm

I think Indy was first wearing the tie (with his normal field clothes) in the sequence where he and Elsa were going to the castle to rescue Pop. I think Indy wore the tie to look presentable and make a good impression at the entrance.

After all, they just went to the front door! They didn't try to sneak in the back way or anything.

coronado

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:00 pm

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. It was just to look nice at the door, and he ended up wearing it for awhile after that.

It's just not Indy w/o a whip IMO. That's like changing from the fedora to a ball cap.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:54 pm

Then why did he put on the "disguise" by borrowing Elsa's berret and coat if his plan was to just show up at the door wearing the tie and looking "presentable"?

The tie serves no purpose other than to add something different to the look.

By the way getting back on track with the hat I thought the fedora looked it's best in LC when Elsa was wearing it.

coronado3 · Post by **coronado3** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:08 pm

EVERYTHING looked good with Elsa wearing it!

Coronado

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:19 pm

True.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:23 pm

Pitfall Harry wrote:Then why did he put on the "disguise" by borrowing Elsa's berret and coat if his plan was to just show up at the door wearing the tie and looking "presentable"? The tie serves no purpose other than to add something different to the look.

By the way getting back on track with the hat I thought the fedora looked it's best in LC when Elsa was wearing it.

I always thought that Indy was not wearing any of his actual utility items (such as bag, gunbelt, holstered webley, and whip) while in the car. As if he had been wearing his regular shirt, pants, hat and jacket as a normal outfit, and just added the tie to be a bit more presentable. After all, in those days a man wearing a suit while out and about was the norm, so adding a tie to the normal "work" clothes may have just been a common practice for Indy when in the "field" but not right in the thick of an adventure.

As for my favorite hat in LC, I was always partial to this one myself:
http://www.theindyexperience.com/screen ... en/132.jpg

Granted, it's no Raiders hat, but even though my preference is the Raiders style, I still like the slightly shorter brim and more relaxed pinch of this hat. To me, it is the quintessential LC fedora. I also think the current HJ's out there, if bashed like this, will replicate this look with dead-on accuracy. If the dream of a modern HJ getting forged into a Raiders hat cannot be realized, I'll probably bash my HJ this way (if I can muster up the dough for yet another hat!)

Based on some of the modern HJ's out there that I've seen, I honestly think it could be worse if Lucas & Co decide to go that route for the hats in IJ4. However, there are two big things this depends on. 1) How the hats are shaped and 2) Where the IJ4 costume folks get the hats in the first place. Most of the good-lookin' modern HJ's I've seen came from either the old German site selling them open crown, or Todd's Costumes. I have not seen any modern HJ's from the current supplier in the UK (SA&B) that would come close to being a decent Raiders like hat. Simply judging by the picture on the SA&B website, would you want them supplying and SHAPING the hats for Indy 4?

-GCR

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:28 pm

That is a dead on TOD bridge fedora...

As for the tie - I always felt that Indy was a little nervous about seeing his father again, hence the tie to look more grown up...

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 3:39 pm

The tie never DID bother me. As a matter of fact, I found it nice to see something different on him in a 'semi formal' setting other than a standard suit.

Considering all he did in TofD was put on a bowtie and jacket over his work clothes, this didn't phase me a bit.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 4:34 pm

fedoraman.....you're wrong buddy....

...now that is a dead on TOD bridge fedora!

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 5:38 pm

Indiana G wrote:fedoraman.....you're wrong buddy....

...now that is a dead on TOD bridge fedora!

I, personally, believe that is the same exact hat. I know the hats in ToD and LC changed many times from scene to scene, but I do think it's possible the same hat was used in different scenes in different parts of the movie (with other hats being used in scenes in between). This hat appears strictly in scenes filmed in Spain, and none of the other scenes, so I'm guessing it's one of the hats that made the trip to the location shooting in Spain and saw a great deal of work in front of the camera.

-GCR

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:14 pm

Michaelson wrote:Considering all he did in TofD was put on a bowtie and jacket over his work clothes, this didn't phase me a bit.

Yeah, I noticed that a few watches ago and thought that was pretty cool. DragonCon '05 (which we weren't actually in Atlanta for DC) we went to see Phantom of the Opera at the FOX Theatre and I forgot to pack a dress shirt, but brought my Indy Gear and ended up waring my Indy shirt with at tie under a suit.