"Raiders Turn" site. NEW for 2007!

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:06 am

New site. I'm not trying to convince anyone the Raiders hat was turned anymore, - now I'm proposing it was turned 2 inches. -- Then there's the crown turned into brim theory. ..and video!

......... I promote the Akubra Federation, because it made a hat I'm satisfied with, and because of some intriguing features particular to it. ....... Preferably, I should have owned a few Poets, and gained a more rounded experience. ..Anyway.. http://www.raidershat.com/Indiana-Jones-Hat.html

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:27 am

Awesome. Glad to finally have all the steps spelled out to read in one sitting. Thanks for bringing them to us.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:44 am

You know, the hats I like in the film were turned, but recently I was shown where several were not turned. And this extends beyond the outside to the temple scenes. There were hats inside that temple that were not turned. If you want an excuse to watch the film again, check it out. The clue? Look at the position of the bow. If it is over his ear, it ain't turned.

Fedora

Post by **Ken** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:10 am

Gotta say looking at that video with the 360 degree view of your hat it looks really amazing from every angle!! Regardless of what they did in the movie, if your techniques acheive that effect its an awesome technique

Ken

Indiana Max · Post by **Indiana Max** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:23 am

Nice hat, looks great, seems to be very close to the original Raiders

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Jan 14, 2007 10:37 am

The only weak point I see, when I watched the film are the camel humps, as seen from the rear. They need to be more fuller. There is something going on there that tells me the top of the dome is not exactly the shape it needs to be, open crowned. Can you crease it to get this look?

If so, stick a fork in it. Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:44 am

Thanks guys! I see what you are saying Fedora. I've sanded this modern Fed felt thin, but it's still springy, and a fairly crude quality. Ford wraps his arms over his head and smashes the crown a bit when the truck explodes. The heat was up to 130 in Tunisia. If I push down on my camel humps, tonight, they spring right back. ...... If "Australian model" meant an Australian hat, I'd buy my Akubra theory, (although, there may have been a couple other fur felt hat makers still in business in Australia in 1980?} If it meant HJ's version of an Australian hat, the heated expanding block they recovered could have a different shape, and the felt they used would probably be non Australian?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:20 am

If I push down on my camel humps, tonight, they spring right back.

That is probably it 3M$. Some of the look is due to the nature of the felt used for the Raiders fedora. It is not springy felt. It is alot easier to get the look with non springy felt. But otherwise that hat looks great. Regards, Fedora

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 11:26 am

Here you go. Here is the hat as it looks with the bow sitting back, behind the left ear, instead of in front of it. May be a first!!! Thanks to our local surveyor, Mr. Garrison.

Check out how the Raiders felt is bulging over the ribbon!!! Now, that is the sort of felt you need for a really accurate Raiders fedora!!! The question is, who makes it?????? Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:20 am

That's wild Fedora!

Never noticed THAT before. I looked and found another.

doc riviere · Post by **doc riviere** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:55 am

...and also when indy is front of the cobra...

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:13 am

Mr Garrison bought several hats from me, always asking for me to position the bow back behind the ear, so he could turn the hat quite a bit. He said it made his brim look better than just a small turn. It had to be back that far, to work for his head shape. The Raiders felt, at least once the hat got distressed, was so soft, spinning the hat was probably not noticable as it would have been with a stiff hat. Fedora

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:29 am

Fedora wrote:Mr Garrison bought several hats from me, always asking for me to position the bow back behind the ear, so he could turn the hat quite a bit. He said it made his brim look better than just a small turn. It had to be back that far, to work for his head shape. The Raiders felt, at least once the hat got distressed, was so soft, spinning the hat was probably not noticable as it would have been with a stiff hat. Fedora

I am sure in your looong quest to get the right body you must have come across a body without any or very little stiffener in the felt. If so, what kind of hat did it make? Was the felt totally unsuable or too difficult to work with?

Looking at the screenshots here, the only hat that I have ever seen that comes close to that kind of behavior is the Burlington coat factory, super stretchy grayish brown hats that came with the cloth sweat. I believe there was even a member here that had turned one in to a Pilgrim buckle hat right?

What kind of felt is that?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:11 am

am sure in your looong quest to get the right body you must have come across a body without any or very little stiffener in the felt. If so, what kind of hat did it make? Was the felt totally unsuable or too difficult to work with?

I have across non stiffened modern felt, sure, but none that mimics the bulging we see in the Raiders fedora. What you need is a really soft felt that is not springy. Like the vintage HJ that I owned. And, it was quality felt to boot. Part of the problem may lie in the fact that higher quality modern felt does not bulge, (or technically lose its block shape) as an important thing in hats is NOT to have a hat that loses the shape that was ironed into it. It is ironic that the things we want good modern felt to do, is hard to get from a quality felt. It seems if you find a modern felt that will do the bulging, it also tapers so fast that you cannot enjoy the bulges for very long.

Looking at the screenshots here, the only hat that I have ever seen that comes close to that kind of behavior is the Burlington coat factory, super stretchy grayish brown hats that came with the cloth sweat. I believe there was even a member here that had turned one in to a Pilgrim buckle hat right?

I reblocked some of those Tonak made Burlington bodies a few years ago, but don't know how they held up over a few months of wear. I don't see any pics of the ones that I did, so I am assuming they were nothing to brag about as time passed. But, this is an assumption. I just don't know. I do know those hats were very porous and wouldn't shed water for very long, IMHO. And the felt was not high quality stuff. But, Tonak does make a higher quality rabbit felt(as that is all that they make). I just have not seen any of it. On new felt, a stretchy felt shrinks readily, and faster than a denser felt. A stretchy felt is not dense, and still has alot of shrinking to do as the gaps between the fibers decrease in size as the felt shrinks and takes up that space. It is not stable-yet.

My tentative take on this is so far I have not seen the felt used on the Raiders fedora, if you take that vintage HJ out of the mix. High quality felt, holds it shape, and does not bulge as much as we see the Raiders fedora bulging, and perhaps that is the key. Or perhaps not. I just do not know, honestly. I do know most hatters disdain the modern stretchy stuff. Generally speaking it is a sign the hat was not felted enough in the felting process. Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:18 am

Akubra has changed too. Vintage model.

Interesting the sweatband is about as wide as a Regular Federation's.

(Again, what's up with Vic Armstrong's narrow sweat?)

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:17 am

Take a look again at those caps and see where the front crease is. It's moved all the way over along with the ribbon.

Looks like the reason any of that felt is bulging it because the hat is turned so far to the left. The large bulge over the ribbon on the left side of that pic is the front crease!

This hat is turned, just the wrong way. Plus, based on the location of the ribbon in proximity to the front crease, I'd have to say these hats were turned, just turned again the wrong way by Ford when he put the hat on before shooting.

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:49 am

I dunno Steve - I think the original Raiders fed might be closer to those tonak BCF hats than you think...

Here are some shots of a BCF Tonak hat that I remade a few years ago. I has become my "backyard" work hat. Now I realize that there are several things wrong with this hat (it's filthy with dust, the color, etc.), but there are also some VERY intriguing things happening with the bulging/reverse taper. Have a look:

It has been soaked to the core by rain at least 3 different times. I take no special care of this hat and it shows no signs of bad taper - more like the sagging felt you described on the hat you sold to Pagey...

What do you think?

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:40 pm

That's very raiders-esque. And you say this is just through regular wear in all the elements, not deliberate distressing? Has a lot of character.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:56 pm

Then, I will agree Fedoraman. I only reblocked these and never kept one around to play with. You certanly have some bulging going on there, and this is essential for the SOC look. How did the felt hold up to wear and the wet? Did it maintain the shape without tapering fairly well? If so, this may be the rabbit felt to use to create that SOC look. I bet they offer a better grade of felt too, that would still do this, that is, not quite so porous. How have these hats held up over the long haul. One thing is for sure, you did an outstanding job with that hat!! I think one could take an Akubra, removed the stiffening and get that same look too. The lack of stiffener is a key point, along with the right sort of felt. I would love to get some of these Tonak rabbit bodies and make and sell these for 90 buks as I know the felt is probably fairly cheaply priced. They may not last forever, but they sure would give you the right SOC look.

Fedora

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:33 pm

whiskyman wrote:That's very raiders-esque. And you say this is just through regular wear in all the elements, not deliberate distressing? Has a lot of character.

From what I remember I re-made the hat on a block that I made to look like the one Steve made a long time ago. I tore down the BCF stuff (the thin ribbon and cloth sweat), soaked it in hot/warm water then pulled it on my block over night. Put on the ribbon I got from Pyro and a sweat from an old Miller. No deliberate distressing - just wearing it in the heat and sweating through to the ribbon a few times (the hat has no liner). The hat got soaked a few times in some summer rains and I just basically sat it down flat on the brim - no special care at all because the hat was so cheap...I has alot of dust on it from sitting behind my TV for a while this winter.

It looks just like an old beater hat should - but the interesting thing is the bulging and the non-tapering after it got soaked. The only thing the I noticed after I wore the hat while wet for a few hours is the bumps from my ears on the brim

This hat has a very unique felt feel to it - not like any other hat I have messed with - very floppy and stretchy with some weird memory...

That is why I asked Fedora if he had worked with any of these hats before and if anyone else had this type of experience...

Steve - I have another one of these bodies that I never got around to finishing - just put it on the block and shaped it without sewing anything. It does have a few small holes that would be covered by the ribbon as I accidently knicked the felt while tearing int down. Let me know if you want to mess with it and I will send it your way.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:39 pm

Steve - I have another one of these bodies that I never got around to finishing - just put it on the block and shaped it without sewing anything. It does have a few small holes that would be covered by the ribbon as I accidently knicked the felt while tearing int down. Let me know if you want to mess with it and I will send it your way

Sure, would love to do so!! It has been a few years since I fooled with this felt, and my knowledge has increased exppoentially since those early day. Send it on my friend!! And thanks! Steve

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:01 pm

Headed your way, Fedora.