Archive Hats

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:13 pm

These are hats from the Lucas Archive footage.

Hat blue logo #1 (is this an HJ seal?) I think you can see Herbert Johnson on the sweat on the left (in gold lettering)

Hat blue logo #1b (note the I J on the hat band)

Hat blue logo #1c (ribbonless but you can see some of the thread sticking out where it was stitched on)

Second blue logo hat (again note the I J on the hat band)

Possible Raiders hat (THAT is a Raiders mushroom shape in back)

Possible Raiders hat (more Raiders looking from the front than the others)

Possible Raiders hat -- Another different logo, again is this an old HJ logo? Is the top gold silk or yellowed (old) liner plastic?

Last Crusade hat -- I KNOW this is an HJ logo and one we actually see in LC (in Donivan's office)

Thoughts? Comments?

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:27 pm

Thanks. I was gunna do that but you saved me the trouble.

I think the one that's mushroomed out in the back is just smooshed.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:37 pm

Yeah, could be. Those three labeled "possible Raiders hat" are all the same hat though. I thought the brim looked bigger and more "swooped" compared with the others.

That and the liner is different than the others.

I screen capped some of the jackets rack and a shirt or two as well. (and those pants laying on the box)

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:48 pm

I haven't seen the archive video, so I don't know for sure, but judging strictly by those pics above, I don't think any of those hats are Raiders hats. The bow on the "possible raiders" with the mushroom effect doesn't quite look right to me. I also have to say I doubt there are any Raiders hats in the Lucasfilm archive at all. My personal feeling is that HJ didn't make all that many hats for Raiders, and the few that were made and survived the torturous shoot probably weren't kept by Lucasfilm. Seems likely to me that all of the hats in the archive are from ToD and LC, as by then, the hat's status as the trademark piece of clothing for the Indiana Jones character had been firmly established. Again, this is all just opinion and speculation on my part, I'm not trying to "swiss cheese" your post, Doc.

-GCR

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:57 pm

That's a good point. That bow is a non-Raidersesq feature, though it's more Raiders than some of the others which look to be straight from HJ. (really square looking) But that one is only slightly better looking. But still I'd like to know if all of those crests are HJs. (especially the blue one and the gold top linered one)

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:11 am

IndyDoc wrote:That's a good point. That bow is a non-Raidersesq feature, though it's more Raiders than some of the others which look to be straight from HJ. (really square looking) But that one is only slightly better looking. But still I'd like to know if all of those crests are HJs. (especially the blue one and the gold top linered one)

I'm pretty sure the blue crest is HJ. I'm almost positive one of the Raiders-era "vintage" HJ's Fedora has (or had) was equipped with a liner with the blue HJ crest (so that might backup the idea that it could be a Raiders hat after all). In fact, I think Marc had a whole thread about possibly duplicating that style of liner for the AB line (but with the AB name in place of the HJ name). Marc or Fedora would know about the whole liner/crest issue for sure.

-GCR

doc riviere · Post by **doc riviere** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:36 am

the sweat bands are dark brown, not light brown as the smithonian museum LC hat....

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 2:44 am

doc riviere wrote:the sweat bands are dark brown, not light brown as the smithonian museum LC hat....

Hey, good eyes on that one, DR! Was the lighter sweatband more common during the Raiders era, or ToD / LC? Finding this out might help to establish the age / identity of some of these archive hats.

-GCR

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:42 am

That's the kind of sweatband I had replicated in roohide: Dark brown leather with a grove (which can't be seen here, but I have two vintage HJs with the same liner and same felt color and their sweatbands DO have a grove), with an even darker reeding tape.

The liner is an older HJ liner (as mentioned above) that I'm about to have replicated (just with AB instead of HJ and of course the HP of the staff of Ra, instead of the unicorn).

Regards,

Marc

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:47 am

doc riviere wrote:the sweat bands are dark brown, not light brown as the smithonian museum LC hat....

Do you have a link handy so we can compair? I was thinking the "LC" hat above was probably the one on display as it was on a manikin with the shirt, jacket, whip, and bag.

doc riviere · Post by **doc riviere** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 1:08 pm

here is a pic:

and Desi from screenused props said the temple hat sold has a "tan" color sweatband ?....

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:00 pm

That's the same color sweat I am currently using, although I use the dark brown sometimes as well. Now, it seems, the chocolate brown one was used for perhaps the Raiders fedora. I went with the tan color due to me seeing them in vintage HJs. I was guessing, this was used in the Raiders fedora as well. Might be wrong on that one. Fedora

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:13 pm

Hey, gang. I made that video and can definitely tell you that the yellowing on the inside of that hat was just discoloring. It almost looked like something green was growing there. Kinda gross at the time.

I do recall too that none of the hats seemed to feel all that different. I have no idea if I would quickly notice a felt difference by touch and was too ignorant at the time to think about it!

I did have my own Swales cut LC with me at the time and it seemed identical in every way. Still have that hat!

And OH! - all of the hats had that gold IJ in there in case anyone (like Marc) wants to be TOTALLY obsessive

Which I absolutely approve of...

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:29 pm

And OH! - all of the hats had that gold IJ in there in case anyone (like Marc) wants to be TOTALLY obsessive

Which I absolutely approve of...

Thanks for the kind feedback

That WOULD look good on a dark brown sweatband, wouldn't it

Regards,

Marc

doc riviere · Post by **doc riviere** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:45 pm

darthjones wrote
I did have my own Swales cut LC with me at the time and it seemed identical in every way

it is what i say since years !!! but nobody seems to hear me.... i' ve seen a screenused hat and the color was exactly the same as Swales hat

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:34 pm

Hey darthjones, is that your video on youtube also or did some one else do the same thing around the same time? See the link for what I'm talking about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKdgb8-IxbI

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:10 pm

No, that is definitely NOT mine on youtube. If someone out here has mine on disc or whatever please feel free to put it up on youtube if you like though!

Or just the hat sequence.

There is also a part where I pick a HF hat up off the mannequin and show it, inside and out. Did anyone post that?

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:41 pm

Yeah, that was the last screen shot I posted in my first post.

So what year did you do that video in and what was the occasion that you got to do it?

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:37 am

Hi, I was an intern during 1990 at ILM. Don Bies let me video the place during lunch. Funny, I hung out in the archives dept. on several occasions but my focus was usually Vader.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 3:46 am

darthjones wrote:Hi, I was an intern during 1990 at ILM. Don Bies let me video the place during lunch. Funny, I hung out in the archives dept. on several occasions but my focus was usually Vader.

We're so glad to have you darth

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:11 am

Yeah Erri, I love this Archive stuff! I don't know if this has been noticed before, but I captured this Toht liner recently. Looks like it could have the little blue shield.

I'd like to ask darthjones... or anyone, ... Have you ever seen a "narrow" sweatband in an H.J. ? MK claims Vic Armstrong's Raiders hat had a narrow sweatband. The narrowest sweatband I have seen is in the Regular Federation at 1 3/8. My pbbm and Fed Deluxe are 1 5/8, My Millers 1 3/4, My vintage Dobbs 1 15/16 ? Could a friend of MK ask him what he estimates was the width of the sweatband he saw?

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:54 am

Hey, gang. Glad to be hear! But I'm no more an authority than anyone who has seen these hats in person. The one thing I feel most lucky to have seen hats-wise is the Raiders hat at 1984 WorldCon in Anaheim. THAT was cool. There is another guy on this site who saw it there but has less recollection of it. It was definitely different than the hats in the video. The felt seemed "thinner" if that makes sense. Lighter.

Now - I quizzed Swales in person in 1986 in London and he said at the time that he/ they did not make the Toht hat.

But that liner sure looks suspicious!!!

Swales said he would never make a bound edge hat for a film. I don't know why he felt this way but 'tis what he said.

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:58 am

Oh - have never seen a narrower sweat band in any Jones hats.

Did not see inside the Raiders hat on display.

DID see inside the IJ hat whih auctioned for $7,000.00 years ago in L.A. and it had a normal band.

Just came in for the evening.

There are a LOT of screwed up chicks out there.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:28 pm

There are a LOT of screwed up chicks out there.

And the reason why Indy was in his 30's or 40's the last time we saw him, and he was still single.

Fedora

darthjones · Post by **darthjones** » Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:52 pm

Pretty much!