I recently read a bit about this company on Thefedoralounge.com and was wondering if anyone here owns one of their jackets. They offer an Indy Jacket, but I was wondering more about their A2's.
Conversely, can anyone recommend what they think are the better made A2 offerings available today? How are Flightsuits or USWings? I've also heard a little about a company named Aero, do they offer an A2? Your input is appreciated.
FYI, my next leather jacket will be an Indy from Wested.
US Authentic ??
Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Mike, Indydawg
-
Indiana Johnson
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:21 pm
- Location: Utah - Indiana's childhood home
-
Fatdutchman
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:26 pm
- Location: Kentucky
I tried a US Authentic (flightjacket.com) A2 in size 48 long. It was a size too large around. The sleeves were OK, but the body of the garment was about 5 inches too long! It was long enough to qualify it as a "car coat"! The real long sizing seems to be common with them. I don't know how they are about working with you on sizing. I wasn't foolin' with it and just sent mine back. It did seem well assembled, however. The leather was REALLY soft, which frankly, I don't like.
Aero is supposed to be superb quality, and for those stitch-counters who have to have everything "correct", they are considered to be one of the best. Given the exchange rate from the British Pound to the Dollar, an Aero jacket will set you back at least $700.
Aero is supposed to be superb quality, and for those stitch-counters who have to have everything "correct", they are considered to be one of the best. Given the exchange rate from the British Pound to the Dollar, an Aero jacket will set you back at least $700.
Aero jackets are gorgeous. I just ordered an AN6552 about a month ago. They're a top quality garment all around, but also a top dollar one. Then again though, an Aero jacket will last you a lifetime. They're heirloom jackets, really.
I was sort of forced to order mine by the rapidly diminishing value of the dollar. If I waited any longer the cost would have become even more prohibitive and totally unjustifiable to me. An A-2 will run you between $700 and $800. If you deal with Aero Leather USA, they will pay all shipping and import duties for you. Mark is also a great guy to deal with.
A word of caution with Aero. I took this leap of faith. Any modification to a standard size makes the jacket non-returnable. I require tall sizes. That modification made it non-returnable. But, Mark and I swapped emails for quite some time nailing down sizing. I even sent him one of my jackets for reference, along with pictures of me wearing the jacket so that they could get a feel for the fit. We did everything we could to get it right. In the end I placed my trust in them and their expertise. Now, I wait. We'll see.
If you go with Aero you need to be as forthcoming with them as possible in terms of your sizing. Give them all the information that they ask for, and if you can, send Mark a jacket that fits you well so that they can get a good reference point. If you get a tall, whether it fits or not, you'll own that jacket once you get it.
Having said that, if you do as I and others have done for custom sizes, you should have no problem with fit when it is all said and done. Aero is a pro outfit. They know what they're doing and they'll do right by you. You just need to articulate VERY clearly what kind of fit you're going for, and any odd sizing details.
One other thing to keep in mind when ordering a custom jacket is that no matter how much you try...it will never be 100% perfect in every detail. Unless you can travel to the factory and spend an hour or so with a fitter and a tailor, the best you're getting is a really close approximation. Some of the things you hear some of these jacket guys go on about is nuts, really. It's like some sort of disorder or something. It's one of the reasons why Flightsuits no longer does custom jackets...because of yahoos like that. They spoil it for the rest of us.
The jacket isn't being "moulded" off of your body, which will no doubt change with time as well. You have to have realistic expectations. They'll do their absolute best with what you give them, and they use about the most gorgeous and durable leather I've seen in jackets. I don't think you can go wrong. I also can't say enough about Mark (their US rep) and his customer service. Given how much FS charges for their higher end A-2 jackets...Aero isn't all that much more expensive. I'd go with Aero, though both companies make fine jackets. But again, Aero's leather is GORGEOUS!
I was sort of forced to order mine by the rapidly diminishing value of the dollar. If I waited any longer the cost would have become even more prohibitive and totally unjustifiable to me. An A-2 will run you between $700 and $800. If you deal with Aero Leather USA, they will pay all shipping and import duties for you. Mark is also a great guy to deal with.
A word of caution with Aero. I took this leap of faith. Any modification to a standard size makes the jacket non-returnable. I require tall sizes. That modification made it non-returnable. But, Mark and I swapped emails for quite some time nailing down sizing. I even sent him one of my jackets for reference, along with pictures of me wearing the jacket so that they could get a feel for the fit. We did everything we could to get it right. In the end I placed my trust in them and their expertise. Now, I wait. We'll see.
If you go with Aero you need to be as forthcoming with them as possible in terms of your sizing. Give them all the information that they ask for, and if you can, send Mark a jacket that fits you well so that they can get a good reference point. If you get a tall, whether it fits or not, you'll own that jacket once you get it.
Having said that, if you do as I and others have done for custom sizes, you should have no problem with fit when it is all said and done. Aero is a pro outfit. They know what they're doing and they'll do right by you. You just need to articulate VERY clearly what kind of fit you're going for, and any odd sizing details.
One other thing to keep in mind when ordering a custom jacket is that no matter how much you try...it will never be 100% perfect in every detail. Unless you can travel to the factory and spend an hour or so with a fitter and a tailor, the best you're getting is a really close approximation. Some of the things you hear some of these jacket guys go on about is nuts, really. It's like some sort of disorder or something. It's one of the reasons why Flightsuits no longer does custom jackets...because of yahoos like that. They spoil it for the rest of us.
The jacket isn't being "moulded" off of your body, which will no doubt change with time as well. You have to have realistic expectations. They'll do their absolute best with what you give them, and they use about the most gorgeous and durable leather I've seen in jackets. I don't think you can go wrong. I also can't say enough about Mark (their US rep) and his customer service. Given how much FS charges for their higher end A-2 jackets...Aero isn't all that much more expensive. I'd go with Aero, though both companies make fine jackets. But again, Aero's leather is GORGEOUS!
I can also vouch for Aero. I got one of their bootleggers in the brown FQHH. As Flyer stated, the construction and attention to detail is top notch. I also went through Mark @ Aero Leather USA, and he was a pleasure to deal with. I didn't go so far as to send him a jacket for reference, but we did spend alot of time discussing sizing, and in the end it turned out right. Mine ended up being a "tall" when we were through, and he gave me a break on the added cost, which was nice. If A2's are your flavor, they have plenty, and you can choose a variety of leathers, all of which are gorgeous. Its an investment, but a good one.
As for the others, you'll get a decent product no doubt, but I would consider Aero a step above most offerings.
Have you spec's out your Wested Indy?
As for the others, you'll get a decent product no doubt, but I would consider Aero a step above most offerings.
Have you spec's out your Wested Indy?
Dear Indiana Johnson,
Don't buy an A2 jacket before you speak to me. Since you brought up the subject of the US Authentic A2 let me tell you a few thing about it.
One of the things that really trouble me about this jacket is that they center the front pockets from the zipper and not from the storm flam. This creates the effect that when you have the jacket zipped up the left pocket (the one on the right as you look the photo) appears to be placed farther away from the other.
See photo below
All the other faults it has I can forgive, but this one no. Actually some WWII manufacturers made their jackets like this, while others have corrected the problem the same way as Wested does, i.e. by placing the pocket a little bit closer to the storm flap and also changing the size of one of the two front panels. (if you have a Wested you can witness that).
The US Autrhentic is the best A2 Jacket you can get for the money.
It's major advantage is the slim military cut. That is a killer.
Don't bother about the US Wings and the Flightsuits. They have the fuller cut of the 80s that looks awful. Altough, it has to be said that if you except the fit, the Flightsuits jacket has some very historically accurate features on it.
But let's go back to the US Authentic. I'll tell you what's wrong about it.
* They use a collar stand design, but the stand does not cross over the inside of the wind flap as it should. [Not all WWII jackets had collar stands, and most of them did not.]
* The epaulets are made of one piece of leather and folded over in front,
rather than made of two pieces as it should be. The placement of the epaulets, and the shoulder seam behind them, is a little too far forward and coming over the shoulder.
* The label is erroneous in that the line for the drawing number reads DWC instead of DWG, and for some reason they used both an order number and a contract number on the label. Only one of the two numbers should be used, and the two numbers they used were ones from WWII jackets of two different makers.
* The AN inspector's stamp in the lining is too big.
* They put a line of stitching around the small leather extension from the bottom right side of the zipper into the waistband, and that shouldn't be there.
* The lining is too coarsely woven and the material is thick and fuzzy compared to originals. The color is okay, though.
* The collar hook hardware is too big. The collar and pocket snap hardware is not much like originals, and also seems cheap -- one of them fell apart when I was looking at the jacket (but it was easy to snap back together).
* The sleeves are a bit too full and don't taper enough to the cuff.
* The horsehide leather was about the thickest I've seen but at least it was soft and not stiff.
* The leather finish was a pretty heavy, painted on finish, not much like originals.
Overall, the look of the jacket aside from all the other details was okay and reasonably reminiscent of WWII A-2's and it's certainly more authentic looking than US Wings or Avirex.
Regarding Aero that some other folks talked about, I haven't owned one but I'm just not sure. These guys can't make the pockets of their jackets symmetrical. Just look on the photos in their website. Plus I heard some bad comments about the quality of their leather.
One REAL expert on the A2 jackets has suggested to me (for reasons that I cannot go into right now) that the best and most accurate A2 jacket is the Real McCoy. (www.realmccoys.co.nz)
I looked up their website but the photos they have there don't praise their jackets. Yet, if you see one of the photos posted on my request on the fedora lounge below
Real McCoy on the left, US Authentic on the right.
you will discover that it's really a marvellous jacket. My A2 expert friend was right.
My personal favorite though is the Cable Raincoat Co, Contract 23382 by Eastman
Look what beauty...
Besides Eastman, Aero and Real McCoy there are 2 German makers who are supposed to offer accurate reproductions of the A2. These are
http://www.original-fliegerjacken.de/
http://www.fliegerjacken.de/
however, I cannot comment on them.
If you decide to go for Eastman please note that they have too many models on offer. Some of them have a distinctive feature and that is that they have a very narrow wind flap. They do this in an effort to center the zipper under the wind flap in order to hide the effect that one pocket seems to be (is) farther of the wind flap than the other. However, if you go for their historical reproductions such as the Cable, the Monarch or the Werber you won't have this problems. You can find all of them in Eastman site http://www.eastmanleather.com/
That's more or less what I can say and if you want you can contact _ who has seen many jackets in person.
There is one more thing you need to know, but I will tell you that after you make your decision which jacket to buy. Just send me an email and I will reply.
Don't buy an A2 jacket before you speak to me. Since you brought up the subject of the US Authentic A2 let me tell you a few thing about it.
One of the things that really trouble me about this jacket is that they center the front pockets from the zipper and not from the storm flam. This creates the effect that when you have the jacket zipped up the left pocket (the one on the right as you look the photo) appears to be placed farther away from the other.
See photo below
All the other faults it has I can forgive, but this one no. Actually some WWII manufacturers made their jackets like this, while others have corrected the problem the same way as Wested does, i.e. by placing the pocket a little bit closer to the storm flap and also changing the size of one of the two front panels. (if you have a Wested you can witness that).
The US Autrhentic is the best A2 Jacket you can get for the money.
It's major advantage is the slim military cut. That is a killer.
Don't bother about the US Wings and the Flightsuits. They have the fuller cut of the 80s that looks awful. Altough, it has to be said that if you except the fit, the Flightsuits jacket has some very historically accurate features on it.
But let's go back to the US Authentic. I'll tell you what's wrong about it.
* They use a collar stand design, but the stand does not cross over the inside of the wind flap as it should. [Not all WWII jackets had collar stands, and most of them did not.]
* The epaulets are made of one piece of leather and folded over in front,
rather than made of two pieces as it should be. The placement of the epaulets, and the shoulder seam behind them, is a little too far forward and coming over the shoulder.
* The label is erroneous in that the line for the drawing number reads DWC instead of DWG, and for some reason they used both an order number and a contract number on the label. Only one of the two numbers should be used, and the two numbers they used were ones from WWII jackets of two different makers.
* The AN inspector's stamp in the lining is too big.
* They put a line of stitching around the small leather extension from the bottom right side of the zipper into the waistband, and that shouldn't be there.
* The lining is too coarsely woven and the material is thick and fuzzy compared to originals. The color is okay, though.
* The collar hook hardware is too big. The collar and pocket snap hardware is not much like originals, and also seems cheap -- one of them fell apart when I was looking at the jacket (but it was easy to snap back together).
* The sleeves are a bit too full and don't taper enough to the cuff.
* The horsehide leather was about the thickest I've seen but at least it was soft and not stiff.
* The leather finish was a pretty heavy, painted on finish, not much like originals.
Overall, the look of the jacket aside from all the other details was okay and reasonably reminiscent of WWII A-2's and it's certainly more authentic looking than US Wings or Avirex.
Regarding Aero that some other folks talked about, I haven't owned one but I'm just not sure. These guys can't make the pockets of their jackets symmetrical. Just look on the photos in their website. Plus I heard some bad comments about the quality of their leather.
One REAL expert on the A2 jackets has suggested to me (for reasons that I cannot go into right now) that the best and most accurate A2 jacket is the Real McCoy. (www.realmccoys.co.nz)
I looked up their website but the photos they have there don't praise their jackets. Yet, if you see one of the photos posted on my request on the fedora lounge below
Real McCoy on the left, US Authentic on the right.you will discover that it's really a marvellous jacket. My A2 expert friend was right.
My personal favorite though is the Cable Raincoat Co, Contract 23382 by Eastman
Look what beauty...
Besides Eastman, Aero and Real McCoy there are 2 German makers who are supposed to offer accurate reproductions of the A2. These are
http://www.original-fliegerjacken.de/
http://www.fliegerjacken.de/
however, I cannot comment on them.
If you decide to go for Eastman please note that they have too many models on offer. Some of them have a distinctive feature and that is that they have a very narrow wind flap. They do this in an effort to center the zipper under the wind flap in order to hide the effect that one pocket seems to be (is) farther of the wind flap than the other. However, if you go for their historical reproductions such as the Cable, the Monarch or the Werber you won't have this problems. You can find all of them in Eastman site http://www.eastmanleather.com/
That's more or less what I can say and if you want you can contact _ who has seen many jackets in person.
There is one more thing you need to know, but I will tell you that after you make your decision which jacket to buy. Just send me an email and I will reply.
-
Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44484
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando
-
Fatdutchman
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:26 pm
- Location: Kentucky
The sleeves on US Authentic jackets are too full and don't taper enough?!?!? I could barely get my arms in the one I had. With a long sleeve shirt, which I always wear, it was VERY difficult to get my arms into the sleeves.
Now, I don't think Indiana Johnson ever said just exactly what he wanted in a jacket. Just a nice wearing jacket, or a "Thread Nazi approved" Military A2? (hey, we doing 18th century have them too...
some might consider me to be one of them!)
I would actually give US Wings a shot (even though I have had my own problems with them...). Be prepared to order a size or more smaller than you think you need. If my US Wings Indy jacket (which is supposed to arrive to me today) doesn't fit, I MIGHT give one of their A2 jackets a try...why not.
Now, I don't think Indiana Johnson ever said just exactly what he wanted in a jacket. Just a nice wearing jacket, or a "Thread Nazi approved" Military A2? (hey, we doing 18th century have them too...
some might consider me to be one of them!)I would actually give US Wings a shot (even though I have had my own problems with them...). Be prepared to order a size or more smaller than you think you need. If my US Wings Indy jacket (which is supposed to arrive to me today) doesn't fit, I MIGHT give one of their A2 jackets a try...why not.
-
Fatdutchman
- Archaeologist
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 10:26 pm
- Location: Kentucky
Oh, yes...I'm having Johnson Leather make me a 40's style jacket (a slightly modified M200). Alan there has been VERY helpful to me and is a very friendly person to deal with. Reasonably priced too. He is sending me a stock size jacket, which I'll probably get next week sometime, to try on before he gets to cutting my horsehide one. (I'm having the collar made a bit larger, the zipper cuffs eliminated, and I sent him some plaid fabric to make the lining out of). They've been very accomodating to me. As soon as I get the trial jacket, I'll let you all know about the quality of their work (which has been reported to me as being top notch).
They have a "flight jacket" of "A2 style", which looks really nice, and looks like so many A2 style civilian jackets of the 50's. This one might be worth a look, if you aren't going for strict authenticity.
www.johnsonleather.com
They have a "flight jacket" of "A2 style", which looks really nice, and looks like so many A2 style civilian jackets of the 50's. This one might be worth a look, if you aren't going for strict authenticity.
www.johnsonleather.com
-
Last Crusader
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 462
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:07 am
- Location: Germany
-
Indiana Johnson
- Laboratory Technician
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:21 pm
- Location: Utah - Indiana's childhood home
Good Idea, let me tell you what I plan to look for in an A2, when I do look (at least a year, probably)
Horse hide or goatskin. (Haven't decided)
Dark or seal brown.
Slim fitting like the originals ( I hate hate! hate!!! the way most modern jackets are cut wider to accommodate todays obesity trend.)
Very high quality leather.
Quality stitching.
Reasonably accurate, but not necessarily 100%, as to reproduction accuracy. I'm not counting stitches or measuring collar stands, I don't even know what the #### the parameters are on things like that.
I would prefer being able to customize a few things, like adding hand warmer side entry pockets (blasphemous!!! I know) or even two (count them two!!) interior pockets.
But this is all speculation, as I stated to a few of you. First, I'm buying a Wested, then some Indy shirts, a few other personal items, then I might consider a high quality A2. So it will be a while, but I do thank you for any input. A year is not so far away.
Horse hide or goatskin. (Haven't decided)
Dark or seal brown.
Slim fitting like the originals ( I hate hate! hate!!! the way most modern jackets are cut wider to accommodate todays obesity trend.)
Very high quality leather.
Quality stitching.
Reasonably accurate, but not necessarily 100%, as to reproduction accuracy. I'm not counting stitches or measuring collar stands, I don't even know what the #### the parameters are on things like that.
I would prefer being able to customize a few things, like adding hand warmer side entry pockets (blasphemous!!! I know) or even two (count them two!!) interior pockets.
But this is all speculation, as I stated to a few of you. First, I'm buying a Wested, then some Indy shirts, a few other personal items, then I might consider a high quality A2. So it will be a while, but I do thank you for any input. A year is not so far away.
Really? And what do you have to say about this?For those who might have only the smallest doubts about the Aero A-2
may look at these pics of an Aero Bronco in russet horsehide:
Look how diffrerent are the pocket flaps. And that shine on the leather looks like s.....
I don't say Aero aren't good because I do not own one and have never seen one. All I'm saying is that the photos of the jackets on their site are not the best you can find and that somebody I know who is an expert on the field says Aero is good but it should not be choice no 1.
That A-2 looks pretty #### good to me. It's hard to gauge the "shine" from that pic, which isn't the best. I've seen pics of their M-422a that looks like this pic. But I've also seen many other photos, and the jacket in person, and it has nowhere near the shine. That's just a lousy picture.
You want to go by the pics on the Aero USA site. They're very high quality images and very well lit, from as many angles as you can dream up.
Being a "collector" now, I guess, I find the forensic attention to details in the hobby kind of puzzling, especially when so many of the originals lacked consistency from one maker to the next. The minute details we fret over were barely a consideration to the original makers. They seem to have used the pattern almost as a rough outline. It seems they all added their little twists. They made as many of these things as they could, and not out of the best or prettiest hides (it was war) and just threw them at the men who wore them as working uniforms. The repros we see today are way nicer and more consistent in terms of quality than most of what came out during the war. They have to be. They're marketed at a much fussier market, collectors as opposed to soldiers, who are paying through the nose for them.
You want to go by the pics on the Aero USA site. They're very high quality images and very well lit, from as many angles as you can dream up.
Being a "collector" now, I guess, I find the forensic attention to details in the hobby kind of puzzling, especially when so many of the originals lacked consistency from one maker to the next. The minute details we fret over were barely a consideration to the original makers. They seem to have used the pattern almost as a rough outline. It seems they all added their little twists. They made as many of these things as they could, and not out of the best or prettiest hides (it was war) and just threw them at the men who wore them as working uniforms. The repros we see today are way nicer and more consistent in terms of quality than most of what came out during the war. They have to be. They're marketed at a much fussier market, collectors as opposed to soldiers, who are paying through the nose for them.
-
Last Crusader
- Dig Leader
- Posts: 462
- Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:07 am
- Location: Germany
It´s the unmatched horsehide. It´s a replica of the late war A-2 by Aero Beacon NY. When there was not enough horsehide in the end of the war the producers had to use every part of the hides. That´s why the graining of the leather is not even everywhere.PLATON wrote:Really? And what do you have to say about this?For those who might have only the smallest doubts about the Aero A-2
may look at these pics of an Aero Bronco in russet horsehide:
Look how diffrerent are the pocket flaps. And that shine on the leather looks like s.....
I don't say Aero aren't good because I do not own one and have never seen one. All I'm saying is that the photos of the jackets on their site are not the best you can find and that somebody I know who is an expert on the field says Aero is good but it should not be choice no 1.
Every jacket had this shine when it was new.
-
Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44484
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando