Looks like an Indy hat, take a look: (scroll down until you see the Adventurer. It comes open crown, which is interesting.
http://www.christys-hats.com/viewfurfelts.php
Has anybody seen one of these? I wonder if they're lined in red like the bowler.
Christys Adventurer
Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Dalexs
I gotta say, I think that IS an HJ. The tack points all over the bow are a dead giveaway to me (along with the possible dimensional brim, which I also can see. Good eyes, WConly!)
Here's pic of a current HJ available from Todd's Costumes
http://www.toddscostumes.com/images/ind ... -large.jpg
And here's the "Adventurer" from Christy's
http://www.christys-hats.com/popup.htm? ... /F0005.jpg
Granted, they're bashed differently (Todd's looks better) and the different lighting throws off the color, but overall it looks like the same hat to me...it's not often you see tack work on the bow (specifically all four corners of the center of the bow) like that, unless it's one of the newer HJ's. In fact, it doesn't even appear as though Christy's follows this same design technique with any of the other bows on the other fedoras they're selling on that same page. Why would they tack down the center knot of the ribbon unless they were intentionally trying to copy HJ, or, more likely, the hat is actually an HJ?
-GCR
Here's pic of a current HJ available from Todd's Costumes
http://www.toddscostumes.com/images/ind ... -large.jpg
And here's the "Adventurer" from Christy's
http://www.christys-hats.com/popup.htm? ... /F0005.jpg
Granted, they're bashed differently (Todd's looks better) and the different lighting throws off the color, but overall it looks like the same hat to me...it's not often you see tack work on the bow (specifically all four corners of the center of the bow) like that, unless it's one of the newer HJ's. In fact, it doesn't even appear as though Christy's follows this same design technique with any of the other bows on the other fedoras they're selling on that same page. Why would they tack down the center knot of the ribbon unless they were intentionally trying to copy HJ, or, more likely, the hat is actually an HJ?
-GCR
Last edited by GCR on Mon Jan 08, 2007 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Many hats are made that way.GCR wrote:I gotta say, I think that IS an HJ. The tack points all over the bow are dead giveaway to me
I highly doubt it's a Herbie J. That it is designed to emulate one is much more likely.GCR wrote:Why would they tack down the center knot of the ribbon unless they were intentionally trying to copy HJ, or, more likely, the hat is actually an HJ?
Really?Strider wrote:Many hats are made that way.GCR wrote:I gotta say, I think that IS an HJ. The tack points all over the bow are dead giveaway to me
I'm not just talking about tack points at the 4 corners of the whole bow, but more specifically tack points at all four corners of the center of the bow itself. I've never seen another hat besides an HJ with tack points in the center of the bow, they are usually hidden in some way. Now granted, I have not seen all the hats ever made, but being a hat-wearer and an Indy fan, I've seen many, both in person and pics online. As far as I can remember, the HJ is the only hat that has those center of the bow tack points. Out of curiousity, what are the "many" hats you refer to?Strange, and this is probably just me being nitpicky, as this is just one of those difference of opinion things, but I have to say I think the exact opposite. I think it is FAR more likely that Christy's just decided to sell HJ's rather than the idea they created an HJ look-alike. After all, these open crown HJ's have been available from other sources outside of SAB in the past, why shouldn't they be available from another British hat source?Strider wrote:I highly doubt it's a Herbie J. That it is designed to emulate one is much more likely.GCR wrote:Why would they tack down the center knot of the ribbon unless they were intentionally trying to copy HJ, or, more likely, the hat is actually an HJ?
I stand by my initial guess that it's an HJ. If someone wants to pony up the dough and buy one to prove me wrong, and if indeed it ISN'T an HJ, I'll reimburse them every last cent...
-GCR
Crown looks lower and more tapered than any of my HJs did (look at the length of the centre dent compared to the base of the crown). I assumed they'd just re-named the "Chelsea" which they always suggested Ford had bought off them. Perhaps they renamed it, ready for the new generation of Indy fans who are going to be looking for a hat in 2008! Admittedly, the bw looks very HJ-like.
Looks like the same person is doing the bow work to me, as the HJ. I have never seen anyone use the 4 point tacks on the bow, except for HJ, and this was post Raiders. The Raiders used hidden tacks to secure the center of the bow. And, all of the vintage HJs I have seen used the hidden stitches on the center. Both the TOD fedora and LC fedora had the visible 4 tack points. I would say this is one heck of a coincidence here that Christys is featuring the same looking bow on their Indy offering. Oh, I think the Chelsea came with a narrower brim than the HJ Poet, even after the cuts.
With hatmaking basically dead in the UK, it would not be too much of a leap to assume the SAB factory was selling hats to Christy. Complete with the Christy liner. I mean, this has happened since hats have been made. You think all of the Stetsons were made in Philly, even when they had the factory there? At times, Stetson would contract out, and these companies they used would install the Stetson name in them.
It is still done today with folks like GH. His custom hats were originally made my me(the indy fedoras) and his other hats were made by Jacksonbilt Hats. Roy Jackson had the GH liners and sweats there to install. So, it is possible SAB is making Chisty a hat. That 4 tack bow is just too coincidental to me, personally. It is an anomaly, trust me. Fedora
With hatmaking basically dead in the UK, it would not be too much of a leap to assume the SAB factory was selling hats to Christy. Complete with the Christy liner. I mean, this has happened since hats have been made. You think all of the Stetsons were made in Philly, even when they had the factory there? At times, Stetson would contract out, and these companies they used would install the Stetson name in them.
It is still done today with folks like GH. His custom hats were originally made my me(the indy fedoras) and his other hats were made by Jacksonbilt Hats. Roy Jackson had the GH liners and sweats there to install. So, it is possible SAB is making Chisty a hat. That 4 tack bow is just too coincidental to me, personally. It is an anomaly, trust me. Fedora
I think the look and shape of the crown may be deceptive. These hats come open crown, but the picture shows a hat that has already been shaped. We all know Todd requests less stiffener in the HJ's he sells, if this hat is an HJ (and yes, I still think it is an HJ, or at least made by the same folks that make the current HJ's) it's reasonable that it might have more stiffener applied at the factory. Thus, when attempting to shape one of these for the website pic, it seems very likely to me that a good deal of steam might have been used to get the stiff hat into an appropriate shape. Who's to say that the steam (perhaps too much steam, if done by someone unfamiliar with hats) didn't cause the "adventurer" to shrink a bit and become slightly deformed. We have all heard stories of certain modern HJ's shrinking and tapering in record time (and I'm not saying all HJ's do this...or that HJ's are garbage, or anything else, just citing a known issue that has been discussed here in the past).
As for the Chelsea, I thought that was made by James Lock Hatters?
http://www.jameslock.co.uk/prod2.taf?gr ... D94377212B
Was Christy's selling Lock hats in the past? If so, that would back up the idea that they are selling other brands of hats (HJ's) now as well.
-GCR
As for the Chelsea, I thought that was made by James Lock Hatters?
http://www.jameslock.co.uk/prod2.taf?gr ... D94377212B
Was Christy's selling Lock hats in the past? If so, that would back up the idea that they are selling other brands of hats (HJ's) now as well.
-GCR
Sorry, GCR, I didn't realize you were only talking about the 4 tack points on the center of the bow. When I heard "bow," I thought of the hats I'd seen at The Village Hat Shop (which are mainly all cheap overpriced hats) and I'd seen a few of those 4-point sew jobs.
I'd honestly be surprised if this was an HJ with different liners and sweats.
I'd honestly be surprised if this was an HJ with different liners and sweats.
I emailed them about thier hats and this is the reply I got:
Im not sure if any of this helps........just wanted to pass this along.Thank you for your interest in Christy hats.
We unfortunately do not sell hats to the public although if you live in the UK then you could contact any retailer online who is selling some similar Christy hats and ask if they would purchase this hat for you to buy from them?
The hat is a fur felt hat and would retail for around £60-£70.
Regards
Steve Cossey
Christy & Co
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Michaelson
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I believe they have a store front for sales to walk ins, but they are more than likely the type company who sells to resellers rather than direct.
Broner does that here in the United States. You can buy Broner hats from all types of hat resell companies, but you can't buy a Broner directly from Broner.
Regards! Michaelson
Broner does that here in the United States. You can buy Broner hats from all types of hat resell companies, but you can't buy a Broner directly from Broner.
Regards! Michaelson
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Michaelson
- Knower of Things
- Posts: 44532
- Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2002 12:55 pm
- Location: Out here knowing stuff and things and wishing I were with the family at Universal Studios Orlando