AB Delux w/ pics

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:26 pm

I Know it's taken me a couple of weeks to post that I recieved my brand new Adventurebilt delux from Marc. I didn't want to post anything without pics. I know how everyone hate's that so I waited. I also thought I would wait to get pics of my Ab by Steve aka Fedora ( to compare).
The AB ( by Steve is a reblock). It didn't need a reblock ( there was no tapper in this hat at all). I sent it back to be reblocked because I made the misstake of not taking steve's advise. I was so sure of myself about ordering a 5 3/4 inch crown that I did not listen ( live and lern). I sent it back to have it changed to a 5 1/2 like Steve wanted to do in the first place.
OK, here are the pics. FYI, I crease both hats myself.

AB delux. This is after two week ( or so) of recieving the hat.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/j ... C01739.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/j ... C01740.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/j ... C01744.jpg

AB ( by Steve). I have owned this hat around a year and a half ( 1 reblock , to lower crown height only. This hat has seen it's share of rain and did not tapper one bit.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/j ... C01742.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/j ... C01743.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/j ... C01744.jpg

The next one I took when the light gave me this great shot but I can't remember if this is the AB or AB delux. Take a look and tell me what you think.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y101/j ... C01690.jpg

A little review of the AB delux.

The felt is a little thinker than the AB but softer and more flexable. It takes a few day's longer for the bash to take than the AB. The felt is as soft as the current HJ if not more. The felt is so much more denser than the HJ ( the current HJ feels to me to have a lot of air). I know that sounds crazy but it's the only way I can desribe it. AB delux is very dense ( no Air). It almost feels like velvet , very sort. It's very hard to discribe. It's like the AB in that you really need to hold it in your hands to understand what great quality both of these hats are and what great craftmenship wen't into these hats. Photo's can not do these hats justice.
I place my order and gave Marc my head measurments and let the man do his job. The result are fantastic. Thanks again Marc.

Thanks Marc and Steve for you great years of hard work to make use all a true " Raiders hat." Not only a hat that looks the part but one that you can use everyday.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:07 pm

very, very nice oak. now, i'm looking forward to getting mine back from steve after the reblock/resize that i need.

i know what you mean with what the different felts feel like....you put it in a very strange way, but i know exactly what you mean because i have a current HJ and have (had) an AB beaver.

thanks for the post.

cheers.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:17 pm

I can't think of anything to say...

I knew these little guys would come in handy for something, someday!

AWESOME hats, Oak!!!

-GCR

moses · Post by **moses** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:39 pm

Nice hat - but (and your photos prove it again) I've yet to see an AB deluxe that I like as much as an AB. I just think Steve's hats look better - the block, the colour- they just look more like Indy hats. The Deluxe, in comparison, seems fat and too mushroomed. Indy's hat only ever looked mushroomed in Cairo when it was beaten to ####.

It's still a nice looking fedora - and I know Marc prides himself on getting the best available materials - but I still think the AB looks better.

randystokes · Post by **randystokes** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:13 pm

Can someone give me some history on the AB story, and why Steve and Marc use the names AB and AB deluxe respectively? I have one of Steve's ABs (and love it), but besides the differences noted earlier in this thread, what's the difference between the two makers and their products?

Randy

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:32 pm

i think you hit upon something moses. i was wondering why my AB wasn't as mushroomy as some of the ones i've seen posted before.....because those were AB deluxes. your right, there is a subtle difference there, obvious to hat fanatics but not to everyone else.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:36 pm

i'd also be interested in the 'history of adventurebilt' as i am one of the ignorant masses. they seem like they are different companies but use the same name for their products and share their wealth of information with each other. the deluxe costs more and is from overseas (if you live in north america). marc, steve, how did you guys come about? besides filling a niche in the market that was begging to be filled, how did 2 companies from different continents come about?

randystokes · Post by **randystokes** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:45 pm

No doubt it's the result of two giant behemoths dividing the conquered world into two parts, with each to rule over -- kind like the European countries divided up the New World . . .

Still, I'd like to know

Randy

VP · Post by VP » Tue Dec 05, 2006 4:56 pm

Umm they both belong to the Adventurebilt Hat Co. They both sell über-accurate Indiana Jones fedoras for cheap. They are not different companies, they are different AB dealers carrying different products.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:40 pm

Ah, this time of day Marc is probably getting ready to turn in, and hasn't got his home pc online yet. So, I will fill ya in.

Marc and I both worked on the Raiders block shape for around 3 or 4 years, perhaps more. My memory is horrible. We reverse engineered it, and then tweaked it over the last couple of years. The tweaking came in when I got a vintage HJ that had the Raiders block shape as opposed to the LC block shape. Both blocks used by us are very similiar, but are a nuance off from each other. Our disagreements are illustrated in our blocks.

Marc's block is closer to a round oval than mine, hence it appears wider on some facial shapes, while mine is a more compact block. But, his round oval block gives a great brim distortion when put on a regular oval head. Once his felt shrinks just a bit, it will morph into what mine look like, i.e. more compact. I think he planned this.

As far as how we have two guys making the same brand of hats, it went like this. I offered Marc to use the AB name and help take some load off of me. Since he and I were involved in a joint effort, this was the least that I could do. Plus, Marc is detail obsessed, is a fan first, and that pretty much settled it. We were both detail oriented, with him being just a bit more than myself. Now, Marc gave it some thought and decided why not offer a Deluxe version of the hat, with him providing it. Sounded good to me and he was off sourcing the best of the best. His vision was to make the absolutely finest hat period, using different sources, from world wide. My hats are basically 100 per cent American made, if you take the HJ ribbon from the UK out of the equation.

So, he spends many months working on his felt, and parts. He is having his felt specially made in Portugal, with water proofing added during the felting process(a new one on me) with extra fur being added to each hat body for denseness, which translates into durability. He wants a cadillac of a sweatband and sources kangaroo hide, and has his sweats made of this very fine and soft leather. His tape, or reeding material was made just to match the sweats. His sweat band is costing him almost 10 times what a sweat would cost. No one else has this stuff. I think he is working on haveing his hatters crest done like some of the vintage hats, needlepoint, embroidery, or whatever it is called. You get the idea. Some hatters claim to use special parts and felt, while Marc is actually doing that. I have said it before, and will say it again. His hat if sold by Optimo would have to fetch a couple of grand, if the same markup was used. Believe it or not, even with his hats being several hundred dollars, he isn't making much money on them. His materials are very expensive, and that is why you don't see this type of hat anymore. Back in the old day, there were hats of this caliber, but the hat business has changed since that time.

So that is it. Marc just took it to the next level as he is obsessed with ultra high quality Indy fedoras. For myself, I am still providing what I set out to do. An accurate Raiders fedora in the best felt America has to offer and at a price that most can live with. I am not using cheap parts on my own line, as I am using what other custom hatters use, and the only change I can see is a change of sweatband makers. I have found one that uses only American sheepskin and will move to them as soon as my current stock is used up. My color of antique roan will be the same as both companies offer this same color. The new sweatband looks identical to what I am using now, except it is much softer to the touch. And I will have to get a new die to note the pure beaver felt used in my hats. Regards, Fedora

randystokes · Post by **randystokes** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:48 pm

Fedora/Steve:

Thanks very much for this detailed history and explanation. As I only have one of your hats and an HJ, I can't comment on Marc's hats or their quality. Just the fact that you speak so highly of his hats and of his obsession for detail is a very strong recommendation of Marc and his product. I'm delighted with your hat, and have no plans to buy any others soon, but this is valuable information for all of us.

Randy

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:51 pm

you bet! thanks steve.....now where did i put my credit card......

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:19 pm

Thanks Steve for posting all that. I was so taken by the felt I didn't say anything about the sweat, liner or ribbion. I think the hat will change with some time ( it has changed some already). I've been wearing it almost everyday. My AB has changed over time and it just keeps getting better.

Thanks Steve for my wonderfull hats ( I love them all) and Marc thank you for the Cadilac.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:36 am

Thanks for the kind words Oak!

Regarding this:

The Deluxe, in comparison, seems fat and too mushroomed. Indy's hat only ever looked mushroomed in Cairo when it was beaten to ####.

...Steve pretty much nailed it, when he said that:

his round oval block gives a great brim distortion when put on a regular oval head. Once his felt shrinks just a bit, it will morph into what mine look like, i.e. more compact. I think he planned this.

Keep in mind, that the hat shown here is brand new yet. Give it a bit of time and it'll look exactly as supposed to (which IS planned, as Steve wrote).

According to a fellow fan who saw one of the screen used Raiders Fedoras, the color is about as close to the original as it can be. Again: remember that the hat you see on screen had faded and been dragged to "where-the-devil-lives" and back. The hat is supposed to last a lifetime and if it would look like the SOC after only two weeks of normal wear, I'd done something wrong

These hats are NOT a piece of custome

He wants a cadillac of a sweatband and sources kangaroo hide, and has his sweats made of this very fine and soft leather. His tape, or reeding material was made just to match the sweats. His sweat band is costing him almost 10 times what a sweat would cost. No one else has this stuff.

Currently I'm using the roan goat (that's what you saw Steve) from the first batch yet (with matching vintage reeding tapes), but I have sent a specially tanned roohide (same color as on my vintage HJ - Indy era) to my sweatbandmaker with the request to copy the stitches, the width and everything else from the Indy era HJ I have. It'll also come with a contrasting dark brown reeding tape this time (just like on the vintage HJ). I'm EXTREMELY curious about these new sweatband (even though they cost a small fortune, as Steve pointed out already...).

I think he is working on haveing his hatters crest done like some of the vintage hats, needlepoint, embroidery, or whatever it is called. You get the idea.

Well, yeah, but currently the single seal fur felt rawbody and the new improved sweatbands are what are on my "work in progress" desk. The embroidery liners are only an idea as of now.

An important side note, is that Steve and I have been very close friends, way before Adventurebilt even was an idea and we have both profitted from each others ideas, theories and experiments over the last years. That's the advantage if you have to people working seperately on the (almost) same goal.

Regards,

Marc

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:23 am

Thanks for the kind words Oak!

Well earned my friend , well earned.

randystokes · Post by **randystokes** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:28 am

Thanks to both Steve and Marc. It's refreshing to see two entrepreneurs who, technically at least, are in competition for the same business, but who have worked together cooperatively, produce high quality work, speak highly of the other's work, and remain friends.

Great example for all of us, and great products by these two fellows.

Randy

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:44 am

They don't have to compete. They actually need each other. I think they are both as busy as a one armed paper hanger.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:54 am

Agreed!

Like an old fellow I used to work with years ago used to say, to repeat Buff's saying above:

"They're busier than a one armed paper hanger in a room full of rocking chairs!"

No, I never did make much sense out of what old Bill said most days.

Regards! Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:03 pm

An important side note, is that Steve and I have been very close friends, way before Adventurebilt even was an idea and we have both profitted from each others ideas, theories and experiments over the last years. That's the advantage if you have to people working seperately on the (almost) same goal.

Marc and I often said that if anyone was listening in on the hours of phone conversations(imagine a conversation about one particular hat lasting for over an hour) the eavesdropper would think us to be insane.

I cannot even guess how many hours we have discussed "the hat". We can still talk for over an hour on the subject. And do. Often.

The great thing about this, is the AB line was developed right here at Indy Gear. So many people, unbeknownst to themselves contributed in the design of this hat. Marc and I are just good listeners. But the seed was sown at Indyfan. The AB will always be tied directly to this site. It was born here. One good thing about us is we never stop trying to make our hats better, and more accurate. Neither of us will ever be completely satisified with what we do. It is a sickness, but an enjoyable one.

Marc paid me back in spades when he sourced the ribbon that HJ used to use once upon a time. For those not familiar with sourcing ribbon, finding a really dark brown ribbon like used on the Indy hats is practically impossible unless you want to have a special run done by Schiff and buy 7500 yards at 68 cents a yard. Neither he or I could afford to sink that much money into ribbon. But, we were seriously considering it WHEN he by accident discovered the ribbon source used by HJ years ago. It never occurred to me the advantage of having a guy in Europe doing sourcing.

We operate independently, but support one another in our efforts. And we probably compete in workmanship, which is a good thing. Keeps us on our toes and benefits the customers. We both have our visions of the Indy fedora, as represented by our hats. And nothing is set in stone, for either of us. If there were to be a new development in info on the original Raiders fedora, you can be sure neither Marc or myself would hesitate to incorporate it as much as possible into our hats. To us, it is all about the hat-period. Heaven help us if the day ever comes we are 100 per cent satisfied with what we are making. Fedora

randystokes · Post by **randystokes** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:17 pm

The results of all that hard work are certainly obvious in the AB you made for me, Steve. I love it, and receive lots of compliments. Thanks to both you and Marc -- and to the others around here whose thoughts and observations you both listened to.

Randy

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 12:44 pm

Yes, I credit myself years ago for getting Steve's feet placed on the right road to success in his hat business.

I remember it well. He posted a photo of an Akubra he was messing around with WAY back when. I posted the response...."Nice hat!"

The rest, as they say, is history. 8-[

I'll be under the Plymouth should anyone need me now.

Regards! Michaelson

randystokes · Post by **randystokes** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:17 pm

Michaelson, I was only giving credit to those around here whose comments Steve and Marc listened to. I'm sure they didn't listen to you!

Randy

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 1:34 pm

Probably so, but then I get that at home a lot too.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Jess · Post by **Indiana Jess** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 2:31 pm

What was that?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:41 pm

Yeah, that.

Oh, to add, that's also called in Engineering Management and Project Management 'The worth of perfect information'. If anything I suggested was considered wrong, then do otherwise...and therefore my suggestions were as useful as right information. In the convoluted world I live in, that makes perfect sense. Sort of.....

Regards! Michaelson

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 3:54 pm

BendingOak wrote:Thanks Steve for posting all that. I was so taken by the felt I didn't say anything about the sweat, liner or ribbion. I think the hat will change with some time ( it has changed some already). I've been wearing it almost everyday. My AB has changed over time and it just keeps getting better.

Thanks Steve for my wonderfull hats ( I love them all) and Marc thank you for the Cadilac.

Your hats look awesome, my highest congratulations!!! I knew you wouldn't have regretted the choice of the Deluxe. When you open the box and touch the felt you really discover where all those money went!

More and more pics now please

Raider · Post by **Raider** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 5:49 pm

Nice topic, nice info

Thank you guys for clearing that up!
And BendingOak - of course - "nice hats!"

Cheers,

:junior: Raider

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 9:54 pm

Your hats look awesome, my highest congratulations!!! I knew you wouldn't have regretted the choice of the Deluxe. When you open the box and touch the felt you really discover where all those money went!

More and more pics now please

this is very true. I thought I was nuts buying another hat myself but when I opened that box and put my hands on that felt. Wow.

I'll post more pics as soon as I can get someone to take them for me
( wearing the hat).

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:47 am

I thought I was nuts buying another hat myself but when I opened that box and put my hands on that felt. Wow.

Again: Highly appreciated!

A lil' update again, that ain't worth an entire thread: I talked to my sweatband maker yesterday and he already started working on the roohide sweatbands (unfortunately he could only get 8(!) sweatbands out of one entire hide - so that doesn't help keeping the costs down

). From what I've heard so far, these sweatbands will blow everything I've ever seen out of the water. He's adding some extra techniques that were used "back in the days" $\:D/$ to get them finer than any other sweatband he's producing currently and I'm DYING with curiousity to see them finished.

Regards,

Marc

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:34 am

Hey Marc! Good news on the new sweatband!

(See how it's done folks? You just keep steering them in the right direction. Man, I love this job.... $\:D/$ )

Ok....BACK under the Plymouth I go..... 8-[

Regards! Michaelson

AB Delux w/ pics

AB Delux w/ pics

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