Herbert Johnson Poet, Indy Fedora question

Doctor_Jones · Post by **Doctor_Jones** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:54 pm

Anyone have any idea where to buy it from?

From this site: http://swaineadeney.co.uk/

or from Herbert Johnson directly?

Kind regards

DJ

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:13 pm

Hey Doc, you might wanna try this site: http://www.toddscostumes.com/indy/indiana_jones.htm

Doctor_Jones · Post by **Doctor_Jones** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:19 pm

Thanks but the easiest way and the cheapest way for me is to buy here in Europe. Don't like those import taxes we have to pay here in Belgium to get packages from outside the continent.

When I got my Fed Deluxe some years ago. The tax was so high I could have afford two Feds instead of one.

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:24 pm

Oh, in that case I would get it from HJ directly, but thats me. Sorry I couldn't be much help.

Doctor_Jones · Post by **Doctor_Jones** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:26 pm

indy89 wrote:Oh, in that case I would get it from HJ directly, but thats me. Sorry I couldn't be much help.

don't be sorry my friend

but it's just the thing. they're both in england and both say they sell that hat. so I don't know where I should buy it. That's the prob.

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:34 pm

I was just reading a post from a while back reading if you live in Europe try www.indyfedora.com to get an HJ.

JEEP · Post by **JEEP** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:47 am

Indyfedora.com is unfortunally no more....

Look at this people. Is that a Dorfman Pacific?!

/Jakob

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:35 am

That's disgraceful, is what it is.

Yeah, it's a DP.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:09 am

OH MY GOD!!!! So that's what all their haberdash regarding sourcing the original felt supplier, block etc. etc. etc. ended up with??? - A DP???

WOW!!! And that for £ 165.00!!! You can get an AB-Dlx. for that price, shipped to the U.S., unless of course you want to go with the "real deal"!!!

I can already see how their current junk turns into collectibles if THIS is their future products! - How the "where-the-devil-lives" can a company kick itself out of business, by doing so?!

Regards,

Marc

JEEP · Post by **JEEP** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:22 am

This truly is sad....

My guess is that they have realised that the hardcore fans have been abandoning their product for quite a while, due to better alternatives on the market. Therefore they are now - in stead of spending time and money at making their product better, so that it might start appealing to the hardcore fans on a broader scale again - opting to aim at the more casual fans, who simply doesn't know better.

/Jakob

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:33 am

Their price remain hardcore though (considering what you get). One would think that people would check the alternatives before spending £165.00 on a hat...

Regards,

Marc

hp · Post by hp » Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:54 am

Maybe the don't have a proper pictures of their Poet and use the DP pic instead...

When http://www.indyfedora.com went down some month ago I checked http://swaineadeney.co.uk and I remember they had a different picture. Poor quality but a "real" Poet.

Although very unprofessional, people often "steel" something out of the web - especially pictures - instead of making a proper photo by their own.

Cheers
HP

JEEP · Post by **JEEP** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:56 am

Marc: Well - if it's something you really want, some people (quite a few actually) just buy the first item they find, without checking the market and/or the quality of the product. If you add the general credibility of the name Swaine Adeney Brigg to the calculation and that the hat is marked as being the official hat, I think they will be able to sell quite a few DP's to the many casual fans out there.
I have been dealing quite a bit in swords - it's the exact same thing when people buy their first sword; without the proper guidiance most people go out and buy the first visually appealing sword they find on the market - often ending up paying way too much for the quality they are getting.
BTW; notice how none of the actual movie pictures on the site shows the top of the crown - consealing the fact that the crown of the DP is actually bashed in a diffrent way than the original movie hat. It might not be intentional - but on the other hand; it may just be...

Hp: One could hope that this is the case - but I wouldn't bet on it. Knowing Swaine Adeney Brigg's attitude towards us hardcore fans.

/Jakob

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:57 am

Like I said...disgraceful.

geo · Post by **geo** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:26 am

From this site: http://swaineadeney.co.uk/

or from Herbert Johnson directly?

Swaine Adeney Brigg own Herbert Johnson, and both companies share the same shop in London. So when buying from swaine adeney you buy from HJ directly.

Regarding the picture of the hat, I don't think that they're selling DP hats. In the printed Swaine Adeney Brigg catalogue there is a picture of a HJ. I think that what happened is that whoever was doing the website has no clue whatsoever about the products they sell, and that person found on the net a picture of an "official" Indiana Jones hat and assumed it's a HJ, since HJ supplied the hat for the films, and just copied and pasted the picture. I e-mailed Swaine Adeney about the hat in the picture being a DP, and I hope that they'll change the picture.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:42 am

JEEP wrote:Indyfedora.com is unfortunally no more....

Look at this people. Is that a Dorfman Pacific?!

/Jakob

MUAHAHAHAHAHHA

Oh my God I can hardly believe to my eyes!! AHAHAHAHAH... It would be even funnier if now the DF sues them for copying their product. They didn't even care of "photoshopping off" the pin from the bow.

Sorry guys but I can't stop laughing, this really cheered up my day. I bet if anyone of our vendors would have ripped-off one of their images of the poet, Mr. Swanley himself would have imediately run to the lawyer.

Plus I never understood why they wrote "Stephen Spielburg" in the description but Harrison Ford is written correctly.

JEEP · Post by **JEEP** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:48 am

geo wrote:Regarding the picture of the hat, I don't think that they're selling DP hats. In the printed Swaine Adeney Brigg catalogue there is a picture of a HJ. I think that what happened is that whoever was doing the website has no clue whatsoever about the products they sell, and that person found on the net a picture of an "official" Indiana Jones hat and assumed it's a HJ, since HJ supplied the hat for the films, and just copied and pasted the picture. I e-mailed Swaine Adeney about the hat in the picture being a DP, and I hope that they'll change the picture.

When is that catalogue from? The pictures on the SAB website has been changed rather recently.

I hope that you are right - it will be interesting to read their answer.

/Jakob

indy89 · Post by **indy89** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:23 am

I have a DP, but I got it when I was 13 yrs old. This is shocking, a DP being called a HJ Poet.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:45 am

There is something fishy about that pic on the HJ site. The hat even has the pin on the ribbon. I wonder what the real story is. Someone needs to call them and find out the scoop. We may have just observed the death of the Poet. Fedora

geo · Post by **geo** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:48 am

When is that catalogue from?

I got it 2-3 weeks ago. I like HJ, it's a company that's got a lot of history, and it hurts to see them do things like showing a picture of a DP and calling it a HJ, and not even seeing the difference between their own product and another. Plus the pin is so obvious to spot.

If anyone else wants to write to them, here's the link:http://www.swaineadeney.co.uk/contact/enquiry

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:58 am

I have one too but it's nothing special honestly. "Our" hat is pictured as bad as they could have.

geo · Post by **geo** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:52 am

And Indiana is misspelled "Indianna".

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:07 pm

anyone else check the rest of the site out? they have the "from russia with love" brief case. its a steal for only 1295 english pounds!

for that price, i would expect the secret compartment that holds a knife, the 20 gold sovereigns, the magnetic gas bomb cannister and booby trap locks, and the extra rounds of ammo held nicely in a metal tube....should be enough left in there for mr. connery to deliver it to my doorstep as well.

i do not think much highly of them or the HJ name anymore.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 12:09 pm

Thing is, the HJ's that were available from Indyfedora.com must have come from a different block than the sad tapered lids I've seen over at Swaine. Their pile of fedoras looked more like a stack of raw hat bodies, in terms of taper...

Pagey bought at least one from the German site, (2 I believe) and they sure looked the part - he had a great Raiders look on them. (On the other hand, I believe Pagey could make a Tyrol look like a Streets of Cairo lid - the man's got mad bashing skilz...)

The HJ's Todd sells are also different from the Swaine felt cones. While not as straight-sided as the Indyfedora.com hats, Todd's Herbies are way better than anything off-the-shelf in St. James Street...

Antone · Post by **Antone** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:59 pm

Marc wrote: One would think that people would check the alternatives before spending £165.00 on a hat...

You're right Marc, it's crazy. Anyone who wants a genuine DP can get them from me for only £130.00 each! (PM me to place an order

)

Antone

Doctor_Jones · Post by **Doctor_Jones** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:39 pm

Scandinavia Jones wrote:
Pagey bought at least one from the German site, (2 I believe) and they sure looked the part - he had a great Raiders look on them. (On the other hand, I believe Pagey could make a Tyrol look like a Streets of Cairo lid - the man's got mad bashing skilz...)

German site? what site is it then? maybe better cos the Brits don't have Euro's.

moses · Post by **moses** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 2:03 am

That was indyfedora.com - but they've closed. It was part of replix.de so you could try there but I think they no longer offer the hats.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:48 pm

The HJ's Todd sells are also different from the Swaine felt cones. While not as straight-sided as the Indyfedora.com hats, Todd's Herbies are way better than anything off-the-shelf in St. James Street...

All wholesale hats are made in their Cambridge, England facility... it's their only manufacuring facility. Police, military, uniform, and wholesale fashion hats like the Poet. No different blocks, despite the rumors. And, no, the hats are not made by anyone else and re-sold by HJ. The felt comes from Portugal, and the hats are made in Cambridge.

I'm sure they are not selling Dorfmans. I'd bet their webmaster is at fault for the photo. However, I did recently have a hat sent in for re-styling and it was brand new from SAB, and had a Dorfman-like crown. It's obvious that the guys in the retail store really aren't hatters anymore.

Yes, Indyfedora.com is no more. HJ had an issue with them and refused to supply them anymore.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:49 pm

And, no, the hats are not made by anyone else and re-sold by HJ.

Hey Marc, what did you find out about this recently, or was I just dreaming? My memory is not what it used to be.

The felt comes from Portugal,

Wow, small world. Optimo was using something very similiar when I bought my first hats from them, prior to them moving to the beaver nutria blend. I like the looks of the HJ felt that Todd is selling. Especially the color!! Fedora

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:50 am

Wow. Things have certainly changed in a year...

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:08 am

And, no, the hats are not made by anyone else and re-sold by HJ.

Well, I can only repeat what I was told by my contact at SAB and that is just what I claimed before: that their hats indeed are made from a sub contractor and then re-sold to HJ. I mean, why would someone at SAB make such a claim towards me, when it's not true?

The felt comes from Portugal, and the hats are made in Cambridge.

I'll check into THAT for sure! Because using the same felter as HJ currently does would CERTAINLY be a bad advertising for me. Funny, that the color of the HJ isn't on their color chart though. Would have saved me a lot of time and money...

Regards,

Marc

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:33 am

Well, I can only repeat what I was told by my contact at SAB and that is just what I claimed before: that their hats indeed are made from a sub contractor and then re-sold to HJ. I mean, why would someone at SAB make such a claim towards me, when it's not true?

I thought you had told me that once Marc, via our phone conversations, but wanted to make sure. Perhaps they have changed to making their own hats again, in the interim? That very well could be, since Todd has contradictory info. I hope they are making their own again.

I'll check into THAT for sure! Because using the same felter as HJ currently does would CERTAINLY be a bad advertising for me. Funny, that the color of the HJ isn't on their color chart though. Would have saved me a lot of time and money...

Please do!! I know you have a good relationship with the guy who is in charge with the special runs at the Portugal plant. I must admit that when I first saw the felt on the new HJs that Todd sells, I thought it looked like Portugal rabbit felt, as the current HJs are using a different felt than what I saw being used in the 90's. Fedora

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:12 am

Marc wrote:Well, I can only repeat what I was told by my contact at SAB and that is just what I claimed before: that their hats indeed are made from a sub contractor and then re-sold to HJ. I mean, why would someone at SAB make such a claim towards me, when it's not true?

Makes sense. IIRC, Pagey, who had a lot of dealings with replix.de/indyfedora.com, also mentioned a subcontractor when the German HJ was on the current events list. Hence the different/better block.

geo · Post by **geo** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:34 pm

New pics of the hat are up on the Swaine Adeney Brigg-HJ website, and this time it's a real HJ:

http://swaineadeney.co.uk//perl2/v2.cgi ... hnson-hats

Looks like it's a new bow from the side view.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:38 pm

I bet they read cow and they run to change the image!

The bow looks like an Akubra

geo · Post by **geo** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:40 pm

I wrote them an e-mail a few days ago and told them that the wrong hat is in the picture.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:43 pm

geo wrote:I wrote them an e-mail a few days ago and told them that the wrong hat is in the picture.

ahah, and what did they say? Oh oops, thanks for telling (darn it, they imediately cought us!)

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:59 pm

geo wrote:New pics of the hat are up on the Swaine Adeney Brigg-HJ website, and this time it's a real HJ:

http://swaineadeney.co.uk//perl2/v2.cgi ... hnson-hats

Looks like it's a new bow from the side view.

I actually like that new bow, it looks better than many of the more recent HJ's I've seen...though the hat's crease/bash is rather poor. I wonder if this new bow will be found on the HJ's that Todd carries? I've been holding off on getting one of those because I don't really care for the current bow configuration.

-GCR

Indiana Kev · Post by **Indiana Kev** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:05 pm

I thought the bash on the hat in the new picture looks bad as well...it is almost like they were going for the teardrop crown similar to the DP.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 2:34 pm

your right erri, that definitely looks like an akubra bow with the back ribbon tacked up higher than the front.

whats with the bash job? why is the back higher than the front? is it to go cycling in or speed skating in? why is the crown in a tear drop? why do i have to ask all these questions to the company that made the original hat?

anyone buy one of these? are they still overpriced DP's? thats the price of two AB's almost. i just haven't heard that these guys got their act together......if they did, i'd definitely get one.

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:02 pm

As I look at the bash on that HJ again, with the back higher than the front, it almost looks like the YIJC hat...

If the YIJC hat was indeed an HJ, then perhaps this is HJ's most recent memory/frame of reference when it comes to an Indy style hat?

-GCR

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:10 pm

nice pic GCR!

in the description of the hat on the website, they tell the story of how steven and harrison came to the store and how THE HAT was made for him. if they go to that detail, they shouldn't be mixing up THE HAT's specs with YIJ's hat....but who knows, they did post a DP on their site...

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:14 pm

Indiana G wrote:nice pic GCR!

in the description of the hat on the website, they tell the story of how steven and harrison came to the store and how THE HAT was made for him. if they go to that detail, they shouldn't be mixing up THE HAT's specs with YIJ's hat....but who knows, they did post a DP on their site...

Exactly...

Whether or not they were trying to get the hat to look like the YIJC hat, I couldn't tell ya. More than likely, HJ wasn't really "trying" very hard to do much at all with the bash on that hat.

-GCR

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:43 pm

The Herbie is still an iconic hat, no question about it...

Even with the available superior alternatives, people still hope for HJ to get their act together. I have an Akubra Fed and an AB in the pipeline, but I still had to get me a Herbie too - my Indy collection would not seem complete without one. I've abused the Federation pretty much, and I intend to put the AB to good use as well... the HJ, on the other hand... don't know if I'll wear it much, if ever. It will probably reside safely in my Peters Bros. hatbox, the poor thing.

Btw, I e-mailed HJ - the Cambridge people, that is - and asked about the blue-crested liner. I kinda hoped that they'd have old stock left - perhaps even the maroon pentagons - but alas... no more of those. I kinda knew it, but had to ask anyway. It would have been nice to customise my Herb with an "Indy" liner...
The white liners w/ maroon ovals are the only ones available today.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:44 am

Ahhhh! MUCH better (not difficult, but still).

That color looks dead on compared to what I'm using for my hats - and I like it

However that ribbon just looks kind of too light

The bow could probably be reworked, if they quit putting a full can of hot glue behind the liner.

Here's what my felter wrote:

I am sorry but I am not in the position to help you on this type of information.

Any way, I think felt hats express their origin quite well.

So, to determine, I'd have to look at one myself (would be neat to check their current craftmanship too).

Regards,

Marc

JEEP · Post by **JEEP** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:30 am

geo wrote:New pics of the hat are up on the Swaine Adeney Brigg-HJ website, and this time it's a real HJ:

http://swaineadeney.co.uk//perl2/v2.cgi ... hnson-hats

Looks like it's a new bow from the side view.

What a relief - no overpriced DP's afterall then

But the bash in these pictures is just terrible

/Jakob

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:10 pm

does anyone have an HJ, straight out of swaine adeney brigg? is it the exact same thing that you get from todd's? could anyone provide any information on these english hats? how is it bashed/are these in stock/are they overpriced/ are they the same as what todd offers/ etc?

enquirring minds want to know...

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:19 pm

...i mean really recent HJ's from SAB....are they still felt "cones" as scaninavia jones puts it?

GCR · Post by **GCR** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:48 pm

Indiana_Tone wrote:If there really is a difference between the HJs from SAB versus the ones Todd's sells.

Yeah, the price!

Todd's HJs are going for a mere $239 right now! The HJs from SAB are up around $327...

-GCR

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:53 pm

tone,

i'm wearing my HJ from todd's right now and yes, the sides are quite short on it. would be nice to have another 1/8 to 1/4" on it for sure. todd, are you out there? anything new coming out of SAB besides the new website info? are your brims pre-cut or do you cut them?