Finally, I've got a S&W 1917 (w/pics)

[Indiana Croft]

Well the search is finally over, but first let me tell you I almost won a pistol on GunBrokers.com, pistol was in very good shape and ended up going for $750.00. Way over my budget. The next day feeling dejected I tried a site I check at least 3 times a week. It's a trading post in Kittery Maine called Kittery Trading Post, heres thelink in case anyone lives near and wants to check em out. http://kitterytradingpost.com
They have a "used gun section" and I figured what the hey, I'll give them a look see and there to my amazment thay had listed a 1917 with a finish of 75%, made mention of how the grips were the wrong style. And it also came with a fact letter.
Well I called them ASAP and had them put a hold on it till I could get up there latter that night.

The finish is ok, more wear on the barrel and some slight scratches and some freckling. Otherwise I'm happy. Best part, it went for $465.00.

Ok lets talk value here on the fact that theres wear on barrel and minor blemishes, also lets not forget the grips are wrong. At top the don't cup in (that rounded area at top), there a strong 1/8 of an inch to big at the rear and hang over just slightly at the bottom. Also the serial # on barrel and the cylinder match but on the frame it's a different #.

I'm figuring that all these added up to the reason it went for the price it did. Me I don't care, I bought this not so much for collectability but I wanted Indy's gun in what I call my collection. If I wanted one that has value I'll save my $$ and by one from a guy in Rochester NH who usally has one in mint going for $1500.00

So let me pose this to you should have the barrel modified, the gun reblued or try to find another barrel to have modified.

Also regarding the grips, I can temporally suffer with these as I search for replacement grips of the right kind. I can sand these up a little and refinish them. Does anyone know what the used to finish the wood on these babies.

Let me know what ya think and oh yea, heres the pics as prommised.
Croft
ps. The fact sheets second page had the serial # and was rather short, but made refence of were the pistol was sent to on April 24th, 1918.
U.S. Armory, Springfeild Massachusetts. At the top it says .45 Hand Ejector Model of 1917.

http://public.fotki.com/IndianaCroft/my ... side1.html

http://public.fotki.com/IndianaCroft/my ... side2.html

http://public.fotki.com/IndianaCroft/my ... side3.html

http://public.fotki.com/IndianaCroft/my ... sidep.html

http://public.fotki.com/IndianaCroft/my ... arrel.html

http://public.fotki.com/IndianaCroft/my ... arrel.html

http://public.fotki.com/IndianaCroft/my ... etter.html

This one of the fact sheet is readable. I thought this was a nice little bonus.

http://public.fotki.com/IndianaCroft/my ... etter.html

Thanks Croft

[binkmeisterRick]

The grips look like standard, no-frills military grips, to me. I have a WWII S&W Victory with the same style grips which are original to the gun. Still, you should be able to find replacement grips that are more Indy. Nice gun! Personally, I'd leave it as is (grips optional). It's got great character.

[Indiana G]

very nice croft. them pea-shooters are quite scarce in my neck of the woods. i could only dream of finding something like that.

cheers.

[Indiana Croft]

Binkmeister wrote:

The grips look like standard, no-frills military grips, to me. I have a WWII S&W Victory with the same style grips which are original to the gun.

Yes Bink they do look correct, but all the 1917 I've seen and held all are cupped in at the part of the grip that comes in contact w/the pistol, that circular area. And I too have the same S&W Victory model as you and those are the same grips, I tried swapping buthen they were to small.
If you held this pistol in your hand you'd feel the grips kinda feel funny in your palm do to the size.

And yea it does have charachter but I'm on the fence about cleaning it up and shortening the barrel.

And Indiana G, all I can say is keep lookin, Indy45 was a great help in supporting my search with all sorts of good ideas on my quest for this pistol.

Croft

[binkmeisterRick]

Well, there you have it, then. I would definitely go for the "Indy" grips, but I'm not still sure if I'd shorten the barrel or not. It's personal preference, really. I suppose if I had two 1917s, then it would be a no brainer--I could have both!

[Indiana Croft]

Hmmm yes Bink you can have both, just might have to with out food for a while, I think I'll try to find an extra barrel to shorten. If my endevers are in vain well all I can say is honey weres the hack saw (just kidding)

Croft

[Marlin_Fan]

The 1917 Colts or S&W are grand old revolvers. However, replacement parts could be a bear to find. Suggestion, why save your money and get the new S&W look alike. My gunsmith says they're pretty good. He does not compliment new guns that readily!! Yes I have one and an old 1917.

[Indy45]

Croft,

You got a great price on a very nice looking 1917!

The barrel has a different patina from the frame, so I'd have guessed it was a parts gun (different s/ns) even if you didn't state so. I couldn't make out all the markings right side of barrel (does your camera have a closeup focus setting?), but the "7 TONS" is probably a British proof.

An original 1917 will be marked as follows:
- "Smith&Wesson Spingfield Mass. U.S.A Patented Dec 17 1901 Feb 6 1908 Sep 14 1909" on top of barrel.
- "S. & W. D.A.45" on left side barrel. No markings right side.
- Small proof marks on frame like a flaming bomb or eagle head with "S6".
- Bottom of frame (grip) "U.S. ARMY MODEL 1917 No (serial)"
- The S/N will also appear (1) under barrel on flat (2) back of cylinder (3) under star ejector (4) pencilled on underside of right grip.
- Note the number on the crane and on frame in the crane recess is a mfg number; they should match but not be same as gun s/n.
- For pics on a Commercial 1917, see my post on the Stembridge in the Archives.

Your grips actually look close to real 1917s; almost all had the rounded tops. Those "dished" tops were only the very earliest s/ns. Does the frame look okay in the grip area? (If someone customized the frame at some point and later installed standard grips, they'd seem oversized with accurate grips.)

The barrel length is measured from the forcing cone (basically the front of the cylinder) to the muzzle.

Since your barrel is a replacement anyway (different s/n than frame), and in rougher shape than the frame, I'd have no qualms about having it cut and crowned.

PM me your different s/ns and any readable text from markings, I can look them up in Jinks books to see if there's info on manufacture date and correct parts. That letter you have looks like a Jinks from the S&W archives; does the letter s/n match the frame?

Your local gunsmith may be okay for the conversion, but I'd ask to see samples of his work, particularly on barrel cutting and crowning, custom front sight construction, sight soldering, and general S&W gunsmithing.

The old S&Ws are like fine watches, the tolerances are so tight. For example, you must have gunsmith screwdrivers to remove the side plate screws, and the proper way to take off the plate is to hold it and rap the side frame (handle area with grips removed) with a wood hammer handle. NEVER pry off.

Go over to http://www.smith-wessonforum.com and lurk for a while, GREAT info on the old S&Ws.

Regards,
Indy45

PS: If you are looking to convert yours to a Bapty, the brass (gold tone) medallion grips from 1915-16 vintage HE2s will be real hard to find. I'm surprised they aren't made new commercially somewhere.

[J_Weaver]

Nice find my friend!

I agree with Indy 45. In this case, I would mind cutting it down to Indy specs.

[Indiana Croft]

Mucho big thanks on the advice about converting, I think I'm gonna do it because after all it's the reason I searched long and har for this peice.

Indy45, when get home tommorrow or Sunday I'll pm the specs. And I have to say your good, yes it is a British proof and on the right side of barrel it's a liitle worn but it does say something to the effect of 7-tons, so I'll be in touch, thanks again.

Croft

[Gater]

Nice piece, IC...looks just like my Artsee1 S&W!

[gunsmith]

I can do the conversion on the Smith with no problem. You will get the same job as Indy45. I REALLY enjoy doing those, I even did my Smith, although it has other modifications that exclude it from being an Indy gun. Lrt Indy45 know and we will work things out.

[Indiana Croft]

Sorry Gunsmith but I'm having a gunsmith in my arae do the conversion, but if for some reason they can't all of sudden do it I'll let ya know.

The one thing you could help me w/if possible is the gun ramp site, do you have this as a all ready made item. My gunsmith was going to look into a pre-manufactured site to out on.

Let me know, he's going to start work next week. I'd feel kinda awkward calling and taking the work away from him. Plus he's local for me and he didn't give me any kind of feeling that he couldn't do it.

If only you contaced me earlier, I might have taken you up on it.
(unless he really botches then I'll be in tuch pronto.

Whats the average price if you don't mind me asking. He of course will be doing a reblue job.
Croft

[gunsmith]

do not let him use the front sight for a Ruger, as it is incorrect. Also the barrel needs thinned at the end, before a sight is made for it. The radius on the sight must be the same as the barrel, or it will come off in recoil.
I know Brownells has a replacement sight for Ruger's, but this is incorrect. I make mine one at a time, per costomers needs, and the way the gun fires. (proper height for the firearm to hit center with a 6:00 hold)

[gunsmith]

I just reviewed your gun and PLEASE DO NOT MESS WITH IT!!! It is an historically significant firearm. Too many have been altered in the past, making one in original condition a HIGHLY COLLECTABLE FIREARM. AT one time these guns were bringing low dollars, but NO MORE. Please PLEASE DO NOT ALTER THIS GUN.

[gunsmith]

I just reviewed your gun and PLEASE DO NOT MESS WITH IT!!! It is an historically significant firearm. Too many have been altered in the past, making one in original condition a HIGHLY COLLECTABLE FIREARM. AT one time these guns were bringing low dollars, but NO MORE. Please PLEASE DO NOT ALTER THIS GUN.