The Federation's magical ingrediant?

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:19 pm

I got 2 new Ferations, size 57, and 58, and I already have two 59's. All have prominent 2 inch wide stretch marks up the sides. Obviously formed on a heated expanding block. I have been puzzled...the stretch marks go right down to the brim, but there is totally no sign of stretching on the brim. Seems impossible. All have extra thick felt up the first inch of the base of the crown, as though an inch of the brim has been pulled up and transformed into crown. So, I imagine Akubra starts with a smaller size hat with say a 5 inch crown with a 4 inch brim, and makes bigger, taller Federations out of them just by stretching them with the heated expanding block. Brim turned into crown. ----- Now I have a new theory. That the Raiders hat was turned about TWO inches. (I will present this theory soon, with tons of pictures and loads of claims) - With this big turn, the sides bulge out like a light bulb, except for the thicker one inch at the base of the crown, and putting the hat on, streching the opening a bit longer, the felt actually gets stunk in just above the thick felt, and I get that groove at the top of the ribbon like the SOC hat. (See picture- taken of the back of the hat) I get the effect, even without the ribbon on. .... None of my other hats have this strip of thick felt in the first inch of the base of the crown, not even my Akubra Colly. Then again, none have stretch marks from a heated expanding block either. Maybe this thick felt is what appears to be stuffing behind the sweat too --- only made obvious with a big turn. .....................................

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:05 pm

I have been puzzled...the stretch marks go right down to the brim, but there is totally no sign of stretching on the brim. Seems impossible.

Not really. When you put a full length hat stretcher inside a hat and steam and stretch, the brim is distored by the stretch. So, in order to conform the brim to the new larger hat size, you have to conform the brim by steaming and ironing(or flangeing) the brim while the stretcher is still in the hat. The brim then conforms to the new size and any stretch marks are pressed out heavily with a heavy iron or a heated sandbag. I do it often.

I have no clue where the stretch marks on the crown come from, because when any hat factory makes the hats, they normally use sized blocks for each size of hat blocked. They don't make one size and then stretch the smaller ones up. It is not done that way. The only way that I can imagine this ever happening is if there is a machine that has a variable sinker, or block that can be expanded to each hat size by setting it up. I have never seen a picture of one of these, as the common 36 finger blocking machine uses sinkers or blocks for each size and the accompanying proper sized ring. I am puzzled.

Turning the hat a full two inches would put the bow almost over the left eye!! Most hats are 8 inches from front of crown to back. The bow is centered at 4 inches. So moving that bow 2 inches would put the center knot of the bow exactly at the front of the crown (as viewed from the sides) That would put the leading end of the bow right over the left eye. That does not fit with the film hat. Of course, one could say, they took the ribbon off, turned the hat, and then installed the bow off center, towards the front, just like the film hat. Why not center the bow if you were going to that much trouble with the hat? Fedora

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:26 am

I have no clue where the stretch marks on the crown come from, because when any hat factory makes the hats, they normally use sized blocks for each size of hat blocked. They don't make one size and then stretch the smaller ones up. It is not done that way. The only way that I can imagine this ever happening is if there is a machine that has a variable sinker, or block that can be expanded to each hat size by setting it up. I have never seen a picture of one of these, as the common 36 finger blocking machine uses sinkers or blocks for each size and the accompanying proper sized ring.

...and that again makes that the felt is pulled equally much all over the body, thereby creating the same thicknes on both crown and brim (as the 36 finger blocking machine graps the felt on the outer edge of the brim).

The only reason why the felt on the first inch of the crown would be thicker, is to heat up that area (and the brim itself) to a degree, where the felt shrinks tighter and thereby becomes thicker again, after it's been stretched out (over the block).

So in order to make this theory fit, they would have used a variable sinker for the 36 finger blocking machine, than push the block deeper into the crown than necesarry, and then finally make that excessing crown depth crawl back on the crown again, by heating it beyond good and bad (but only in that area).

Seems a wide shot for me. I'll see if I can think of something more reasonable.

Regards,

Marc

Fatdutchman · Post by **Fatdutchman** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:43 pm

Anyone who has a photo of Ike and Mamie Eisenhower is fine by me!

My two new Akubras also have the "bulb" shape, but I don't see any marks anywhere on them.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:54 pm

By the way 3M$ that hat in siloutte is fantastic. Give us the lowdown on it. Is this off of your block, or a stock Akubra with "the treatment" Regards, Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:57 pm

That's the new size 57 with a 2 inch turn. There's a plastic bottle in it stretching it more than my head would, so it's a little exagerated. - Ike on TV is just what was on when I took the picture. The History Channel logo is on the bottom right. Didn't even realize it till I looked at the pic, it looked cool so I didn't crop it.

- It's very hard to abandon a turn that matches the predictable repositioning of the bow. Makes me think this is a hairbrain theory, but I think there is evidence it was turned more. This year two reliable sources claimed the Raiders hat was stretched. I see what I take to be a stretch mark on the non-bow side of the movie hat, which is too far rearward. Plus, the channel under the ribbon is just about 2 inches from the front of the hat (old front pinch?). Here's my old size 59- I spent many hours just sanding the thick inch at the bottom of the crown. That's all I was working on here, and there was an abrupt transition to thinner felt at the top of the inch. I thought this stiff thick inch would stop the hat from deforming normally, but now I think that the thick strip might be crucial. You can see the stretch mark up the side of the crown a bit too. It' not just a visual mark, the felt in the stretch is softer than the felt outside of it.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:32 am

By the way 3M$ that hat in siloutte is fantastic.

Oh, of course... Yes, that hat looks VERY nice! - Would you mind, posting a sideview as well?

Regards,

Marc

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:02 am

Ok, if you click on http://www.akubra.com/ and then on "creation" you'll see part of what goes into making a hat from the very beginning. They either left some steps out, or just don't show them - as even the Resistols from HatCo. are made in more steps than this, so I believe they just didn't go very deep into details when making this diagramm.

I have yet to figure, where that thick brim break area comes from...

Regards,

Marc

EDIT:

It's the last chance to check the hats dimensions, so the blocks (made of huon pine) are kept in top condition and regularly maintained.

So it's wooden blocks!

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:35 pm

Marc, I will post a lot of pics when it's ready to wear. The curves and grove won't be as extreme when it's on my head, but they'll be there. .... One of the early steps Akubra says is - "The part of the hat that will be the brim is now impregnated with shellack" .. Maybe the thick felt in the base of the crown is only thicker because it's full of shellack? .. Here's the hat above when it was new 2 weeks ago- note the stretch mark.

Here's the marks on my first Fed from the top

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:06 am

Maybe the thick felt in the base of the crown is only thicker because it's full of shellack?

Shellack is just stiffner. That wouldn't make the felt thicker. So it must come from somewhere else...

If it was only for the front shot of your Fed., I'd say it comes from the knot on the ribbon, but I can't deny the stretch marks on the top...

Back to the thinking booth. This is just VERY un-usual.

Regards,

Marc

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:13 am

Ron emailed me about the stretch marks. Here is it.

Hi Steve,

flew by the forum yesterday and noted the comments about stretch marks and thicker felt - the only thing I can think is occasionally the hats will get a rub mark from the brim up the crown where the cardboard spacer rubs the felt - same as when felt hats are stacked one on top of each other. Steam takes this out of course. This is the only possible explanation I can see. I have worked with thousands of Akubra hats, shaping, blocking, re-conditioning, etc and I have never seen stretch marks

So, I have no clue. I see what you are referring to, but whether I can honestly call them stretch marks is dubious. The thing is, if you put a crown stretcher in a hat, and stretch it out, there would be very noticable marks running from front to back on the top of the hat, and stretch marks on both sides of the hat. If there are marks only on one side, it has to be something totally different than stretch marks. Ron would have noticed those as well in the hundreds of hats he has received and shipped out. You can be sure when he gets in a shipment, if there were quality issues with something of this nature, I doubt he would ship the hat out. He would have returned it to AKubra. Just a thought. Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:17 am

I give Ron credit for that, Steve....if he's not happy with a hat received from Akubra, he sends it right back to them for a replacement.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:35 am

hey 3thoubucks,

what colour is that fed in your picture?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:50 am

give Ron credit for that, Steve....if he's not happy with a hat received from Akubra, he sends it right back to them for a replacement.

I agree. Ron is certainly a joy to deal with and heck of a nice guy to boot. If I ever get down to his neck of the woods, I would love to meet him. I still recall that pic of him posted years ago. A wild looking Australian, and I mean this is a good way. I think he was a little concerned with the "stretched" hat deal, only because it might make folks think Akubra was sinking to unproffessional levels in their hat construction. Which of course, they are not. Stetson needs to take lessons from Akubra. Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:40 pm

Here's the stretch mark? just behind Indy's ear, which is one reason why I thought a 2 inch turn might be correct.

In my hat with the 2 inch turn... And again, from that HJ employee back in August '05

I have recovered the original blocks used which were in storage in Cambridge - One is a metal heated expanding block which is circa 1952 and uses a corkscrew turning wheel. The other was used for very large sizes 62+ and is wooden but the same shape.

Here's that whole thread viewtopic.php?t=13267&highlight=cambridge (Indiana G, the hat is "Mid-brown" according to Hats Direct/Akubra. It looks brown or greenish depending on the lighting, The movie hat did too and so do ABs, but Reg Feds tend strongly towards greenish).