Vintage HJ Poet, block replication

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:35 am

As many know, I own a couple of vintage HJs that I was lucky to run upon on. Some background. A few months ago, I sent one of the HJs to David our local surveyor(and lurker) who has been working with Lamode to replicate this exact blockshape for him. The first block was off, due to the inability of Lamode to replicate in wood the specs that David sent him. I have the second attempt in hand now, but I think it is off as well. David has said that the 3rd time may nail it, and I hope so as this is getting expensive for him. In the meantime, I took one of my vintage blocks and with the use of bondo I have replicated the vintage HJ perfectly. Now, it is very close to my own blocks, so much so that I doubt that I will change anything, but what stood out on the vintage Poet was the asymetrical side veiw. The front was higher than the back as viewed from the side. What this does, is it allows you to drop the back crease down really low without tapering the hat. Interesting. I had brought this up around 5 or 6 years ago, how I thought the hat had a lower radius on the backside, but several here, or at Indyfan(can't recall) had thought this was not likely. Well, it was likely as it turns out, and I have the vintage HJ to prove it. Here are some pics I took of this vintage HJ block shape as shown on a new open crown rabbit hat. This one is going to a fan in France that like everyone else has waited a long time on his hat. Since he is a big HJ fan, I thought I would give him a one of a kind hat in the original HJ shape used on their Poets once upon a time.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:04 pm

Why must you make me drool so? My coworkers are beginning to talk.

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:05 pm

Sorry bink. They always HAVE talked.....

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:06 pm

Yeah, but at least I can give them an excuse now.

Indiana G · Post by **Indiana G** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:15 pm

congrats on your find fedora! its great to hear that you consistently look for new ways to improve your product (must be getting hard to find improvements already!).

any chance of using the HJ block on the rabbits that were snatched up?....or is the difference too minute?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:18 pm

congrats on your find fedora! its great to hear that you consistently look for new ways to improve your product (must be getting hard to find improvements already!).

any chance of using the HJ block on the rabbits that were snatched up?....or is the difference too minute?

It is hard to satisfy me.

The little things drive me nuts. Even things that most folks don't notice. I just improved my little sweatband bows, finally at last. Sometime pretty soon I want to change to the Singer sweats as they use American sheepskin, and the only sweatband maker to do so here in the States. They are softer to the touch, but look identical to what I am using now, colorwise. Just gotta use up what I have in the F and T sweats.

I have not made the changes in blocks, as my revised Raiders blocks are so close to what I posted. I can get the lower back upon request by just pulling the hat lower on the front of the block. It yields the same results. Also my Raiders blocks are just a bit straighter on the front and back, but the Hj may have been as well. I am sure the old HJ shrunk at least a little bit on the front and back since that is the area on any hat that shrinks first if your block was straight in that area. Fedora

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:45 pm

Fedora wrote:
I have not made the changes in blocks, as my revised Raiders blocks are so close to what I posted. I can get the lower back upon request by just pulling the hat lower on the front of the block. It yields the same results.

I think this may be the phenomenon that actually happened. You may be over-engineering the block idea. Unless you have seen a vintage block like the one you described with a higher front - I think the person pulling the bodies on the blocks may be the only difference here. Just MHO...

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:29 am

Very nice my friend! Though I tend to agree with Fedoraman on the different angles, it's nice to see how that old HJ block shape is right there on that rabbit AB.

Too bad it wouldn't work the same way on a denser beaver felt

which would have saved the both of us COUNTLESS sleepless nights

Regards,

Marc

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:44 am

think this may be the phenomenon that actually happened. You may be over-engineering the block idea. Unless you have seen a vintage block like the one you described with a higher front - I think the person pulling the bodies on the blocks may be the only difference here. Just MHO...

If HJs were hand blocked, I would say this could have happened. But, they were factory hats, and more than likely were machine blocked. And of course, if that was the case, the lower backed block was used. I have seen flat topped vintage blocks with a lower back than front, so if they made them that way, it is possible the lower backed Hj block could have existed. I am assuming much here, because HJ could have hand blocked the final blocking on their hats back years ago. Not enough info for me to say for sure, one way or the other.

Too bad it wouldn't work the same way on a denser beaver felt which would have saved the both of us COUNTLESS sleepless nights

Yeah Marc, that is the thing that some hatters will miss. Just because you are using the original block, does not mean the hat you get will look accurate. We both found that out from experimenting with block shapes. If you use the same type of felt as the original hat, the outcome will be perfect. Change the felt characteristics and you must tweak the block to compensate for the felt not reacting the exact same way as the original felt. I could take the exact block used by HJ, and put my, or your felt on it, and the final look of the hat would be off. Felt is weird stuff. The Raiders fedora is what they ended up with when a particular block was used, along with the felt. There is an important interplay here. Having the exact Raiders block with the wrong felt will equal an inaccurate hat, if you are detail oriented. Anyone here who owns a block, any block can see this for themselves. Block a thin, soft felt on it, followed by a thicker less soft felt, and you will be surprised at how much different the hats look when you crease them identically. This is the hard part of getting the look. There is more to it than just having an identical block. Fedora

golpeo_rapidamente · Post by **golpeo_rapidamente** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:04 am

now for my hat just stick with the block the grey one came in,that was perfect
OK?
Sam
p.s Brown hat

Arok · Post by **Arok** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:53 pm

Fedora wrote:Sometime pretty soon I want to change to the Singer sweats as they use American sheepskin, and the only sweatband maker to do so here in the States. They are softer to the touch, but look identical to what I am using now, colorwise. Just gotta use up what I have in the F and T sweats.

Heh, interesting. Since I hope to order a fedora from you sometime in the next couple months maybe I can end up with one of your new style sweatbands.