short handel of DM

Dr Jones · Post by **Dr Jones** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:42 am

Hi,
can anyone comment on the handle of DM. I got a 10ft DM for a year now and I just love that whip. But what I see when I compare it to other pics is that my handle seams to be a bit shorter then others. it’s about 6 6/8’’ from the ball end. Is this a new version? Has anybody got the same size?
Regards
Dr jones

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:02 am

David Morgan default handle grip length is 6 5/8". All my DM's were made this way without asking for any change. If you want anything else you have to request it.

-Sergei

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:11 am

really? so the 8 inch handle that we see Indy uses is a special request? I didn't know that.

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:45 am

Pyroxene wrote:really? so the 8 inch handle that we see Indy uses is a special request? I didn't know that.

Yes, and there is a (good) reason for that. David has evolved the knot to be from the former placement of 8 inches, to the present 6 5/8". This change was introduced over a LONG period of time. In fact David was not conscious that one day he woke up to change the knot placement.

The reason is the knot, when placed at the 8 inch mark, is right over the end of the nail spike that is used for the handle foundation. This area at the end of the nail spike, is what is called the handle-junction area where it transitions from the handle to the thong. So without further explanation, you can see that this knot placement right over the end of the nail spike has a LOT OF STRESS. So, I understand and fully intellectualize the reason for pulling in that knot closer to the heel. However, this causes a dilema for those folks in the "screen accuracy" camp.

Again, David's only motivation is to make a "rock solid" whip that will last years. His MO is not to keep making a whip he made 20 years ago, because he looks at whip making as an evolution of his whip making skills.

So bottom line, if you want a screen accurate whip, you have to request the knot placment to be at 8 inches.

And BTW, moving in the knot is purely cosmetic. It does not make for any change in performance.

-Sergei

p.s. Sorry I assumed that this knowledge was already known here. Last year, we consumed quite a bit of debate on the handle length issue. This topic was quite emotional to some people and caused a problem with vendors. It's settled now. The handle knot is 8 inches for the whips used in the movies. If you want it there, just ask the whip maker to do this for you. But in my opinion, the knot should not be right over the end of the nail. To each his own.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:49 pm

That's great news, actually. I always wondered about this picture.

I am all for rock solid whips. I all makes sense.

Thanks.

The_Edge · Post by **The_Edge** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:07 pm

Sergei is absolutely correct in his facts.

Pyro,

Regarding that photo you posted: Just to clarify, the handle foundation (which is an 8" spike) extends about 1.5" to 2" past the second knot. Moving the knot up or down is just a matter of braiding more or less of a diamond pattern before changing to the herring bone pattern of the thong. Then you place the knot over the transition and you've got your grip length.

-Kyle

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 2:13 pm

yeah. You can still feel the spike past the knot of the whip.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:32 pm

Sweet picture. I love short-handled bullwhips! They look so lethal.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:48 pm

The interesting thing is that I tend to rest the palm of my hand on the handle to get the best crack. I seem to get more leverage that way. It feels more balanced.

Is that right?

Just wondering.

Pyro

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:56 pm

How Dale Dassel eats a Reese's peanut butter cup:

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/wh ... %26.view=t

LMAO

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 4:08 pm

Yeah. Kinda like that but with out the index finger extended. I hold it like a tennis racquet.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 4:19 pm

I find that the index finger makes it easier to guide the whip, producing a more accurate throw. The knob-in-palm technique is straight out of David Morgan's Whips and Whipmaking, which I regard as the bullwhip Bible. (It's actually the first commandment of whip handling) David is, after all, the Master, and I his obedient disciple.

Okay, obviously I have way too much time on my hands today. I should probably go now. (but you have to admit that the Reese's peanut butter cup joke was pretty good)

LOL

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 3:03 pm

whipwarrior wrote:I find that the index finger makes it easier to guide the whip, producing a more accurate throw.

I'll have to try that. Thanks.

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 5:37 pm

whipwarrior wrote:I find that the index finger makes it easier to guide the whip, producing a more accurate throw. The knob-in-palm technique is straight out of David Morgan's Whips and Whipmaking, which I regard as the bullwhip Bible.

My first whip (8ft Indy-style Tim Bass nylon bullwhip) should arrive by this Friday and I plan to do some crackin' with Indydawg (weather permitting) on Saturday afternoon so I will have to keep that in mind since I've never cracked a whip.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that since I'm essentially a clean slate, I don't want to start off by getting into any bad habits. Do it right the first time, you know?

Thanks for the advice!

I.J.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:01 pm

Indiana Joe wrote: I guess what I'm trying to say is that since I'm essentially a clean slate, I don't want to start off by getting into any bad habits. Do it right the first time, you know?

Thanks for the advice!

I.J.

Get the Alex Green video. It's the best way to start cracking. I rarely have the whip come back at me thanks to the safety tips they show on the tape.

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:18 pm

Pyroxene wrote:Get the Alex Green video. It's the best way to start cracking. I rarely have the whip come back at me thanks to the safety tips they show on the tape.

Thanks! I'll have to do that. However, I may not have it by this Saturday so I better wear a leather jacket, gloves, and protective eye gear too, huh?

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:39 pm

Yes, always wear protective eyewear, even when you know what you're doing. My suglasses do me well, but if you have thin legs on the glasses in the temple area around your eye, you might wanna invest in some goggles.

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:58 pm

Indiana Texas-girl wrote:...but if you have thin legs on the glasses in the temple area around your eye, you might wanna invest in some goggles.

I was thinking about wearing my raquetball goggles. I think they should do the trick.

Thanks!

Indiana Joe · Post by **Indiana Joe** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:17 pm

Sergei wrote:
Pyroxene wrote:really? so the 8 inch handle that we see Indy uses is a special request? I didn't know that.
Yes, and there is a (good) reason for that. David has evolved the knot to be from the former placement of 8 inches, to the present 6 5/8". This change was introduced over a LONG period of time. In fact David was not conscious that one day he woke up to change the knot placement.

The reason is the knot, when placed at the 8 inch mark, is right over the end of the nail spike that is used for the handle foundation. This area at the end of the nail spike, is what is called the handle-junction area where it transitions from the handle to the thong. So without further explanation, you can see that this knot placement right over the end of the nail spike has a LOT OF STRESS. So, I understand and fully intellectualize the reason for pulling in that knot closer to the heel. However, this causes a dilema for those folks in the "screen accuracy" camp.

Again, David's only motivation is to make a "rock solid" whip that will last years. His MO is not to keep making a whip he made 20 years ago, because he looks at whip making as an evolution of his whip making skills.

So bottom line, if you want a screen accurate whip, you have to request the knot placment to be at 8 inches.

And BTW, moving in the knot is purely cosmetic. It does not make for any change in performance.

-Sergei

p.s. Sorry I assumed that this knowledge was already known here. Last year, we consumed quite a bit of debate on the handle length issue. This topic was quite emotional to some people and caused a problem with vendors. It's settled now. The handle knot is 8 inches for the whips used in the movies. If you want it there, just ask the whip maker to do this for you. But in my opinion, the knot should not be right over the end of the nail. To each his own.

I was thinking forward to the Nov 1 Athens meeting at IndyFrench's and thinking back to whipwarrior's Athens "performance" at Indydawg's last Spring. I recall Dale's passion for a short handle whip and was revisiting this thread as I ponder the longevity of the whip itself.

Morgan has been highly regarded for his whipmaking skills for quite some time so my question is, how long would one his 8 inch handle whips have lasted compared (w/ same usage) to one with the 6 5/8 inch handle? Obviously, DM feels the 6 5/8 is better and I'm not debating that. I'm just wondering how much of a difference does it make in the life of the whip?

I.J.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Oct 10, 2003 11:33 pm

Yeah, I had him make my whip with an intentionally shorter handle, just because I like the way it looks. I'm all for screen accuracy, mind you, but not where the length of the bullwhip handle is concerned.