Wested Raiders action pleats.

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 6:07 pm

Greetings all.
I recently purchased a Wested Raiders jacket from G-Mann, and I noticed that the action pleat is MUCH deeper in the new one than in my older one. I think the depth of my original is about 1 inch, whereas my new jacket has a nearly 2 inch deep pleat. Is there a design advantage to this? I've noticed that the back panel doesn't sit quite the same as my other jacket (it tends to bow out when I'm standing straight up) but this may be due to the newness of the jacket. Is this the reason Wested offers the elastic in their jackets now, and how would I know if mine has the elastic? Any input is appreciated.

JKL
Ron

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:23 pm

One of my favorite topics/obsessions

Wested went to a 2" deep pleat about three years ago. The idea was a deeper pleat was more likely to stay closed, it doesn't work. Same with the elastic. G&B did it, people suggested Wested do it, so they did. It doesn't work, either.

The simple fact is, the pleats do not work. It doesn't matter how deep they are or who made the jacket. They just don't work. They may lay flat and look pretty good for a while, but as the jacket begins to age to any degree they fail.

They look good in a few scenes in the movies, because those jackets were all new and artificially aged just for appearance. Everyone has always wanted that pleat that snaps open/shut like a spring, as we see in that ONE brief moment at the beginning of Raiders. If they ever do work like that, it's luck. Most of the time, if you look close, the pleats are crushed, wrinkled and laying open. They're more cosmetic than anything. They're simply too long to ever work properly.

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:36 pm

I had a Wested Raiders lamb from about 1998, and the shallow pleats ALWAYS stayed open. I have since purchased a Wested ToD Goat, with the deeper pleats, and have mine have worked just as they were meant to. They stay closed when they should, and during "action," open nicely. Maybe I just got lucky with my jacket...

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:31 am

I guess I'm lucky with mine then.

The first one I got had this problem, I sent it back, and they fixed it on the next one they sent me.

Regards,
Swindiana

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:45 am

I wonder why it works on some, not on others? ALL of the Indy jackets I've had, the pleats fail and just lay there eventually. Is it possible this only happens to longer jackets? I guess the shorter the jacket, the less distance there is between the strap and the yoke. That might be something. Over time I just resigned myself to the fact that they would never work right. Once I noticed that Ford's didn't seem to work right, either it was easier to accept.

Tone,
I think that likely depends on who made the jacket. They're cut from patterns, but everyone reads them differently. It's part of the charm of hand-crafted items; slight variences. I do know from experience that some people aren't that good at sewing too close to an edge or hem. I've opened a few Westeds, and I can tell you there isn't much excess leather beyond that pleat stitching. If someone were to move their needle on their machine further in to stay away from that narrow margin, you'd get a more shallow pleat. The fact that it varies by 1/2" is a pretty good sign of that. 1/2" from your edge is the general rule for garment stitching.

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:42 am

Tone,
My older jacket is a lamb. It's probably about five years old, I'd say. The newer is goat. So, even if I had the elestic, it wouldn't work, huh? I suppose I can live with it, but the deeper pleat combined with the stiffer hide results in a back panel that seems to stick out a great deal. I guess I neet to work to loosen this area up so that when the pleats do fail, they don't force the back panel out.

JKL
Ron

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:08 am

Just to describe it better, it went from this:

to about this:

Regards,
Swindiana

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:15 am

I think Shankara has it right: The pleats on any Indy model will likely never stay shuit the way most of us would like it. They are just too long down the side of the jacket. I see a lot of US Navy aviators with eir G-1s. Even these stay open after a while depending on the size of the jacket relative to the wearer; the age of the jacket, etc. The reason why they dont always look open (G-1) is because the pleat does not gow all the way down the length of the jacket. The pleat ends about 2/3's down the sides and is terminated at the "faux" belt that runs horizintally across the jacket.

I will say, however, the the US Authentic jacket that one of our own posted a while back had an intrguing pleast arrangment.

Anyway, its hit or miss on the Indy.

Cheers

Lao Feng

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:31 am

Swindiana,
Yeah, the right picture at the top looks a lot like what I'm dealing with. I suppose that we detail nuts are the only ones that would be bothered by this. I think I can make peace with it. Your jacket looks good now, though.

JKL
Ron

Gobler · Post by **Gobler** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:24 pm

Swindiana wrote:Just to describe it better, it went from this:

Swindiana

This is what mine does as well. It's the only thing I am a little bugged by about my jacket. The right pleat stays closed but the left pops open all the time. Can this be corrected or does a new jacket need to be made?

Cheers,
Jeff

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 12:34 pm

I'm not sure.
All they said when it was returned was -"Yes, we made an error on it", but I decided I wanted it longer aswell -hence a whole 'nother jacket.
To this date I don't know what they did about the pleats, but it doesn't have the elastics (that I asked for) like the first one did and the panel isn't as wide.
I guess one jacket might fit good on one type of build/posture but worse on the next one, and that you'd need more specifics than just the regular measurements to get it perfect. How? No clue, I'm afraid. All I know is that the next jacket I got was/is perfect action-pleat wise, and that I didn't want to settle with the bulging because "that's what it does". (Screen accurate or not.) Maybe Peter will chime in on it?

Regards,
Swindiana

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:01 am

BTW, I'm selling my older Wested Lambskin in the classifieds section. Even though the lamb is far more screen accurate than the new goat, I don't need two jackets - and I could use the money.

JKL
Ron

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:15 am

Well, after a week and a half, or so, the pleats have relaxed. I've been working to get the jacket loosened up (rainstorm, dryer, wearing it anytime I drive, etc.) and I think the leather there has softened. They really don't flare out like they were doing. Thanks to all for the input!

JKL
Ron

Masterfulks · Post by **Masterfulks** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:29 pm

I was trying to think of some ways to keep them shut.

I wonder how tough it would be to put a few little magnets under the leather.

Not super strong ones, just enough to keep them closed, but light enough that they would pop open when you needed space to move.

Captain Ron Solo · Post by **Captain Ron Solo** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:50 pm

If I'm not mistaken, the stunt jacket that Terry Leonard wore during the truck drag scene had no pleats at all. I suppose that that particular jacket was made especially for that scene.

I can't recall any other scenes in which a stunt jacket was viewed close enough to tell whether the pleats were any deeper. So, do all newer Westeds come with the deeper pleats now? And if Peter has been making the jackets for all these years off of the "original" patterns, then waht in finding a stunt jacket would necessitate the change? Not that I'm complaining. I actually prefer the deeper pleats, but I would think that some of the hard-core screen-accurate Indyfans would prefer the shallower pleats, since that's what Mr. Ford wore. Just curious.

JKL
Ron

Harrison_Davies · Post by **Harrison_Davies** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 2:46 pm

I got so sick of mine opening I simply sewed them shut.

You cant get shallower than that lol.

Indywannabe · Post by **Indywannabe** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:33 am

The deeper pleats really bugged me, so i let a tailor sew them shut and i told him that i wanted a pleat depth of 1" simple as that

Turned out great, the pleats didnt open so darn much and i got a more accurate look to what you see on screen.

Regards
Fredrik

Smuggler · Post by **Smuggler** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:32 am

Though I only have one Wested lambskin jacket, I've had over 60 vintage G-1 jackets with action pleats. The only thing the pleats in those jackets had in common was that they were all different. They all lay flat when new but change over time because of the dynamics of the leather. Since lambs and goats are small animals, one hide is used for the back. At the sides of the hides are the flanks, which is very flexible leather. So there is no way to tell how it will end up bending out of shape. Then the piece of leather it is sewn to is from another part of the hide and it is going to want to do it's own thing, and will usually win out over the flank area.

G-1s also have four elastic straps across the back that are supposed to keep the pleats flat, but in a short time they stretch out and become a non factor. Then the leather does as it pleases.

So that's my theory about pleats that I'm sticking to until something better comes along.

Lao Feng · Post by **Lao Feng** » Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:14 pm

I'll sign up to that! I observe dozens of USN Aviators with G-1s...and there aint two the same as far as pleats go.