NH pants vs Wested pants

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:59 am

It is time to buy pants and I am inclining towards the above mentioned two makers.

As I am a guy who pays attention to detail and like screen accuracy would welcome the comments of someone who has both pants and can make a review/comparison with pics.

If such thing exists already in this massive forum, I apologize for repeating old stories and would welcome any help in finding the old posts.

best regards,

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:47 pm

Help has arrived!!!

search.php

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:23 pm

All shirt vendors have positive qualities about them. It just depends on what details you'd prefer. I have the Noel Howard and Wested shirts. If I had the Xtra $$ right now, I think that I would be willing to give Magnolia's shirt a try. I hear it is very well-made and screen-accurate.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:09 pm

D,
He's asking about pants, not the shirt. D'OH!!!

doc riviere · Post by **doc riviere** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:32 pm

Noel Howard pants if you want the "real thing"

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:40 pm

Hey agent5,

Thanks for the "search" but it's easier to find the lost ark than something you look for in the search results.

By the way, what kind of pants do you have?

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:02 pm

I would only buy the NH pants. If I had to buy seconds I'd either look into Magnoli or Wested.

The search function is easy and will give you the info you're looking for, but the key word is 'look'. It's not going to come to you. You have to put in a bit of time and I guarantee you will find alot of threads devoted to exactly what you're interested in. We've covered almost all the bases so far and the info is all there, you just gotta go out and grab it.

Good luck.

Indiana · Post by **Indiana** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:24 pm

Captain D wrote:All shirt vendors have positive qualities about them. It just depends on what details you'd prefer. I have the Noel Howard and Wested shirts. If I had the Xtra $$ right now, I think that I would be willing to give Magnolia's shirt a try. I hear it is very well-made and screen-accurate.

Actually, I think the material on Magnoli's shirt is realy flimsy and not durable. I've seen a sample of it and the material is wayyy to thin for an everyday use shirt, if you intend to wear it often.

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:09 pm

Hey PLATON I have the Wested, and due to the type of
cavalry wool/ twill, they kinda itch some. I've had them dry cleaned a few times and thet seem to have softned some, but now and then they'll itch.
I'm wondering if anyone with the NH and or the IndyMagnoli pants can tell us which one "doesn't" itch.
Then I might be interested in a second pair.
Croft

Doug C · Post by **Doug C** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:31 am

Actually, I think the material on Magnoli's shirt is realy flimsy and not durable. I've seen a sample of it and the material is wayyy to thin for an everyday use shirt, if you intend to wear it often.

What? That's the first time I've ever heard this said about a Magnoli... I have one and it's far from too thin, as a matter of fact I've been thinking of sending Magnoli some "thinner" material to make one for this Texas heat. I'd say the opposite is true actually.

Sorry, I know this is a Pants thead that's gotten off subject.

Doug C

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 6:30 pm

Hey agent5,

I spent many hours reading in the archives and I am quoting the best lines I could find.

QUOTE
=====

Does this mean the shirts will finally be made again using the EXACT same materials and the EXACT same design as the MBA version?

Peter, with all respect, the jacket is perfection, you did a knock down job on the pants, but fell short on the shirt and I'd love to get several if they are made in the EXACT way MBA was making them back then.

Also, if they do decide to go ahead with the other geat, the gunbelt and holster could also use some updating. I'd be happy to send you ALL the necessary reference materials if you don't already have them. I'm guessing that if Noels old employees did the MBA versions, then it should not be hard to incorporate these slight changes to make them more accurate to the screen than they were. I really did enjoy this gear, but there were just a couple of very small things wrong in the designs and are incredibly noticeable if you just take a look at the film or any clear reference pictures that are available.

I, for one, am already in for 2 new shirts and holster if the decision to make these comes to light and these changes can be made for the better.

All I care about is getting a costume shirt. After all, that's all it was for the film. It never went on any true-life adventures so I don't have that expectation of it. Just look exactly like the one on the screen. Supposedly Noel sourced the ORIGINAL material used and the ORIGINAL color and as far as I can tell, the ORIGINAL pattern too. Wested did this with the jacket. Got it to perfection. The pants are an incredible match too, but the shirt is off in many ways. Now, it may be a nice shirt and plenty of people like it, but it's just not screen accurate and Peter had the chance to make it so. He was even given screen caps and plenty of advice but still fell short. Why he chose to go the route he did and not make them exactly as they were in the film, I don't know.
I know to alot of people it may not make sense but screen accuracy is what I really care about in this hobby. I do not want to take any of my stuff on 'adventures', I just wanna wear it at costume events and have it proudly displayed on my mannequin the rest of the time. I'm sure whatever MBA made can withstand that.

UNQUOTE
=======

Familiar huh?

From what I read the NH is the real thing and Wested did a very good job failing only to scallop correctly the poket flaps. All else is fine.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:10 pm

LOL! Well...you don't have to quote only myself. I'm sure there's alot more out there from others as well.

This was a while back but if I recall there were a couple of other small details on the shirt that were off even after several people provided Wested with screen caps, showing exactly how everything looked in the film and they still did it slightly different. In the end it didn't make any difference because most people were really happy with them and that's all that matters. I don't have to buy it but since this is a forum on Indygear I gave my honest opinion.

You have to remember that I'm one of a very small number of people who obsess over the small details that most people don't care too much about, like whether the corner of a shirt is squared or rounded. Most people just want a shirt that looks like Indy's good enough and I see nothing wrong with that at all. I just want mine exactly as it was on screen and the closest I've come across so far has been Noel Howard.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Tue Aug 15, 2006 11:14 pm

NH are a little itchy, but not too bad. I don't recall Magnoli's being itchy though, but they were the wool mix and not the calvary twill.

NH are definitely the ones for screen accuracy, but you'll pay for that accuracy.

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:28 am

Agent5,

I have read the opinions of many people in this forum. (I don't want to quote what Clint Eastwood said about opinions in that film "the Rookie").

The bottom line is that I find myself agreeing with everything you say. So I can think that we two are alike. For this reason I value your opinion.

As regards the NH shirt I am waiting to receive one so I will tell you what I think.

The NH pants are a little pricey so for the time being I will settle with the Wested.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:54 am

Thanks, man.

I think you made a good decision. The Wested pants are very, very nice and the NH shirt cannot be beat.

obi-cpo · Post by **obi-cpo** » Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:28 pm

Hi, I'm a newbie here who recently purchased a pair of wested trousers for my developing Indy outfit. I tend to be someone who is particularly picky about pants, and I was so satsified with them that I ordered another pair for work.

As for as 100% accuracy goes, there are some discrepancies, as the more experienced members of the board have pointed out. But these pants are very well made and, in my opinion, cut very nicely--the legs taper slightly for a dashing silhouette. Also, the calvalry twill fabric they use is top-notch. I think this is a material that only the British understand and can get right. Finally, the color seems perfect to me from what I perceive when I watch "Raiders".

Michael

P.S. I recommend getting them a tad longer than you normally wear. With the tapered legs, the fabric gathers nicely around your boots, suggesting that baggy look from the films.

PETER · Post by **PETER** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:14 pm

Being busy involved in other film work I seem to have neglected you all.
As you may or may nor know I make the jackets but get the pants and shirt made in other factories, and was not aware that there were design errors. I admit to not reading all the posts in fact I only just found out that NH was back in action.
The shirt I patterned from a MBA NH shirt and thought we had it right, the material I coloured from the film as I did not think NH was accurate.
So the Shirt factory has folded and I am getting a new production going.
I already have a lighter weight Egytian cotton sample made which I like but for production I need to know what is wrong with the pattern, the colour and the material weight and type.
The same really goes for the pants. What needs correcting.
Treat me gently and I will respond accordingly
Cheers
Peter

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:17 pm

How can ya just not love this guy!??!

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:55 pm

Indiana Gater wrote:How can ya just not love this guy!??!

Amen to that. Amen. What an awesome vendor we have here... fantastic.

In Christ,
Shane

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:01 pm

The only thing I'd like to change with the Wested pants are the pocket flaps - adding the scallops would be a great finishing touch. Also, the front pockets could be a little bit deeper.
Aside from that, I think that the Westeds are a most excellent pair of Indy pants. When I compared my Westeds to IndyPip's MBAs at the UK summit, there was hardly any difference in colour and a marginal difference in the cavalry twill structure.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:14 pm

They need a watch pocket too. 8-[

Regards! Michaelson

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:01 pm

oh no, untapered pants can be a strange fit on a lot of folks. And getting them tapered costs quite a bit. Surely the taper isn't that noticeable.

TR

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:04 pm

Michaelson wrote:They need a watch pocket too. 8-[

Ah, yes, but is that.... screen-accurate?!

(EDIT: In order to pay reverence to your facial hair, as seems to be customary on the board these days, I switched to my musketeer avatar... not an Imperial, but it's the thought that counts... )

IMO, the taper is just perfect. Legs have a great drape and fold over the shoe in an exemplary fashion.

Gater · Post by **Gater** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:16 pm

I DO agree with the need for deeper front pockets, and more scallop. I LOVE my Wested pants, and without looking at the tag, cannot tell them from my MBA's

obi-cpo · Post by **obi-cpo** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:51 pm

Please keep the taper! The taper, to me, really makes the pants. It's slight, but gives the pants just the right silhouette and drape.

Michael

independent · Post by **independent** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:58 pm

I've heard Wested trousers are TOO tapered.

Indy's pants in the movies always looked a little wide-legged, all the way down.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:37 pm

I have a pair of Wested pants from about two years ago. I just received a pair of NH pants, right before I left to go to the Finger Lakes Summit. I did not have time to have them hemmed before I left, so I couldn't wear them. I took them anyway, for one reason.

I wanted to be able to show anyone that was interested that the material on my NH pants was the exact same color, the exact same weight, the exact same Calvalry twill, and obviously sourced from the exact same manufacturer as my two year old Wested pants. If you don't believe me, just ask anyone that saw my Westeds compared to my brand new NHs. The only differences may be in small details in the cut, pocket flaps, etc. Without looking at the tags, I can't tell them apart. Indiana Tone guessed that my Westeds were my NHs. I hope this info is helpful to anyone considering which of these two pants to purchase.

The NH shirt just looks like Indy. I must warn you though, that it is a fitted shirt. This baby fits like a glove. I hope you have a shape that looks like the hand to go in the glove.

It is so fitted, that I can't even get it on over my hand without unbuttoning the cuff. I can't even wear my watch with it unless I roll up my sleeves. Of course, we never see Indy wear a watch, so I leave it at home (more screen accurate, you know). This may be the reason that Indy never wore a watch, he couldn't get his shirt on with a watch.

Wested versus NH pants, I have both of them and I would have to flip a coin to decide which one to wear. And, check the tag to make sure that I chose the right one. As far as shirts, there is only one shirt that just screams Indiana Jones, and that is the NH.

So, take my advice. I'm not using it.

independent · Post by **independent** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:51 am

B Jones, how would you compare the cut? I think you're one of the few members who have pairs from both vendors.

Specifically, I keep reading how Wested has this taper, but I've never heard people with NH pants talking about it.

If Peter is looking for some feedback on what we think of his pants, especially since he based his pants on NH's patterns (if I'm not mistaken), then it's curious to find differences in cut and details.

I really do hope Peter does in fact produce as screen accurate of pants as NH, if all it needs is a few tweaks.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:58 am

I am not sure about the cut. I haven't gotten them hemmed yet, and I haven't even worn them. I did unbutton the pocket flaps and hold one in front of the other just a little while ago. They are virtually identical.

I did notice that the waist band on the NH is about an eighth of an inch wider that the waist band on the Wested. This means the belt loops are just a tad longer, also. These pants are the same in just about evey category. That's it. I haven't found any other discrepencies among them. My recommendation would be to buy whichever pair is cheaper.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:30 am

In order to get a pair of ROTLA-accurate pants on the market, the scalloping of the pocket flaps is not enough. The shape of the flap itself is more of a triangle in Raiders...

... whereas the rectangular flap is more of an LC thing (didn't find any good ref material from ToD yet).

And here we have the current offerings, as seen on the main site.

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:20 am

Also, I'd like the "tuck in seam" of the pocket flaps to be less visible. (As seen in SJ's pics.) I.e. no material covering the top of the flap. Maybe the flap could be half an inch wider too? Other than that, I think you've nailed it. The really are top notch Indy pants for a good price.

Regards,
Swindiana

Last Crusader · Post by **Last Crusader** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:07 am

Besides the shape of the pocket flap I think the Wested pants are a bit too baggy. You have to wear them very high for a good fit. This is a real 30s fit but I think it is not screen accurate. The pants´ legs are a bit too wide IMO. But this might be the case with the NH pants as well.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:48 am

The film Peter was working on is True North.

It is finanally appearing in the press. It is partly funded by Channel 4 (As was "Four Weddings" and "Billy Elliot"). It's starring Sean Bean and Michelle Yeoh and will film, partly at least, in Norway.

Harrison_Davies · Post by **Harrison_Davies** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:05 pm

Peter,

I feel the pants are a little baggy around the buttocks and thighs.

It would be helpful to shorties like me if we could include the waist to bottom of crotch measurement.

I know the trousers of the 30's were worn higher, but thats impractical for me.

Please help to create a shallower waist to crotch.

Mine has too much material.

Regards,

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:18 pm

I need a lot of crotch room. Any less in that area and I will be singing soprano.

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:19 pm

-Say, I can tell you're a baryton Indy by the fit of your 'Pinks'... Wanna Do-wop?

Regards,
Swindiana

bleyd · Post by **bleyd** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:27 pm

Well I have very large legs. Built kinda like a trees stump. I was a bit concerned when I found out the Wested pants ran on the small size but after trying them on it's almost like they were tailored FOR me.
So far I am VERY happy with these pants but can give you a better tell on how they wear during the coming months as it'll cool off more and I cna wear long pants again.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:41 pm

Well - Harry's pants aren't exactly snug around his thighs:

OK, that's enough of posting pics of Ford's butt to last me a lifetime... I hope...

independent · Post by **independent** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:07 pm

I don't know if I'm talking over my head or out of my butt, but I think some of us might be making a mistake when we order our usual waist size, when we're not considering the fact that these trousers seem to have a long rise and a big seat, relative to the waist measurement.

Controversial tip: some tailors advise buying suit pants that fit your seat, and ignore the waist as long as it's within 2 inches of your waist size.

Why? The waist can be (inexpensively) altered usually 2 inches either way, I'm told. I'm not sure if this applies only to new suit pants, or whether most OTR pants have this allowance in the waist.

If that's the case, the main priority is the seat fit because it determines the way pants drape, determining the overall silhouette of the pants. And altering the seat of the pants can be a hairy and expensive procedure, and can adversely affect the balance of the pockets and seams.

Thus, if one's body type is, say slim, with a conservative posterior, one might be better off with a size smaller waist and its corresponding smaller seat. Then simply get the waist let out an inch or two, and perfecto. Otherwise, one would be looking at a perfect waist fit but completely unhappy with the drape - something that would be expensive to fix.

The waist-seat-rise are specs that greatly determine a pants fit, but I think the better we know these pants, such as NH, Wested, and Magnoli, the better we can make decisions that are right for us. Not all bodies are created equal, but maybe we can pick up some tricks to make those differences manageable.

I'm glad there's some dialogue on this, because guys like Erri and Indean have shared some of the measurements of their pants, allowing others to see how these measurements compare to pants they have at home. I think everybody would be a lot happier (vendors would get less returns from people who are not happy with the fit, consumers will know better what size to order and how to get the pants altered properly)

P.S. I would love it if one of these vendors would offer a cavalry twill officer's pinks w/ a flat front. Although this wouldn't be screen accurate, I think flat front is both classic and contemporary, if not screen accurate, it's period accurate (from war photos), and it simply looks better, with a cleaner silhouette that's more flattering on most people.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:25 pm

You're absolutely right regarding the waist-seat issue - and yes, tailored trousers also have the 2 inch waist allowance (at least). However, it's not recommendable to alter the waist more than those 2 magic inches - the back pockets will most likely begin to move, in a weird manner if the 2 inches are exceeded. Sporting a posterior with the back pockets too close to each other - or one on each thigh - looks most unflattering...

Regarding cav twill officers' pinks without pleats - those are very period-accurate indeed, for uniform pants, that is. US Army dress trousers were pleatless, but mimicked the civilian fashion in terms of shape and cut.

"MacArthur" chinos did have pleats, however.

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:36 am

milesfides wrote:P.S. I would love it if one of these vendors would offer a cavalry twill officer's pinks w/ a flat front. Although this wouldn't be screen accurate, I think flat front is both classic and contemporary, if not screen accurate, it's period accurate (from war photos), and it simply looks better, with a cleaner silhouette that's more flattering on most people.

Magnoli Officer's Pinks - these are the same as the adventure pants (the pic is funky) but without pleats.

In Christ,
Shane

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:27 am

I have two pairs of Westeds and the taper has never occurred to me as dramatic - they look like any generic dress pants do.
The taper provides for a nicer curve and drape of the pant leg when worn. A straight leg would also fold at the ankle, but there's a risk of the fold being kinda "accordion-like", with too much loose fabric which would prevent a nice look. Besides, the slight taper is what's needed for an "Indy"-look - straight pant legs just won't look right.
Naturally, the taper should not be overdone - one does not want to look like one's wearing Zubaz...

Obviously, there's a length/taper ratio involved, and also the fact that the pant style doesn't fit or suit everybody.
Then again, the Westeds I own have looked a lot better after a little wear and wash. Steaming off the creases also change the look of the pants quite a lot.

independent · Post by **independent** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:48 pm

IndyMcFly wrote:
milesfides wrote:P.S. I would love it if one of these vendors would offer a cavalry twill officer's pinks w/ a flat front. Although this wouldn't be screen accurate, I think flat front is both classic and contemporary, if not screen accurate, it's period accurate (from war photos), and it simply looks better, with a cleaner silhouette that's more flattering on most people.
Magnoli Officer's Pinks - these are the same as the adventure pants (the pic is funky) but without pleats.

In Christ,
Shane

Thanks shane, but cavalry twill should be WOOL not COTTON.

cheers!

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 3:53 am

Talking of baggyness...

http://www.theraider.net/films/raiders/ ... ts/155.jpg

Look how low is the seat here!

It's clear that in fight scenes he pulled the trousers up. That explain the picture in the raven bar

NH pants vs Wested pants

NH pants vs Wested pants

wested trousers

Wested Mk2