Modifying a wood hat block...

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:58 pm

My little project for the weekend was modifying my vintage hat block using the good old bondo treatment. I must say that it involved some serious hand sanding. I am so proud of the outcome that I am wearing my hat cocked jauntily to the side. First let me say what was wrong with the block. It was too short, only 5 1/2 inches, and while the sides were very close to parallel, they did in fact run inward 1/8 inch on each side as it approached the top. I must also say that this "run in" still provided a nice square looking block, but I figured making them a bit more parallel wouldn't hurt. What was really the weak point though was that the front and back of the block run in 1/4 of an inch. While some slight taper on the front and back is fine, in fact desirable, this was a bit too much. A slight taper vanishes when you put the top bash in. This taper didn't vanish, just like Pyro's reblocks. The last thing that needed changing was the shape of the dome on top of the crown. This vintage block was relatively flat, and produced a nice LC look. Drop the back too much and it caused the crown to taper. I basically visualized what I thought the raiders fedora looked like open crown by staring at pics and watching the film a couple times. Then I popped out the crown of the Optimo and determined that it was pretty close. Now, having what I wanted to accomplish in mind, I mixed up small batches of bondo and applied thin layers, gradually building up the top and sides, allowing the 20 minute cure time between applications. On the sides, I used a small tool called a square. It is simply a small 90 degree angle. I squared it up on the bottom of the block which was very flat and even, and used it as a tool to even up the still soft bondo. It worked wonderfully. The hardest part was shaping the crown in the application and sanding process. I must have got lucky because it turned out exactly as I was hoping. I don't know if I could do it again.

I sorta hated to cover up the top 2/3 of this antique block, but it wasn't doing me anygood in the state it was in. After curing the bondo block all night, I wet the entire crown of one of my old hats today and slipped it over my new block. After some real serious tugging and grunting it was on the block. I just pulled it off a few minutes ago and did a quick bash on it although it is still damp. I believe that I have myself an accurate raiders block now. YIPPEE!!!!! My next project is to make a brim flange using the base of my raiders block as the template. I envision it fitting my block perfectly, with just enough room between it and the block to allow room for the hat. This should make stretching the hat over the block much easier, in addition to pressing out the brim as the hat dries. Stay tuned for more. Fedora

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:45 pm

This one is on eBay. Though it's not tall enough, it has practically no taper. just wondered if this is what you're shooting for.

JohnNdy · Post by **JohnNdy** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:15 am

That's great news, Fedora! Having just reblocked my Fed Deluxe on my new plaster block I know the feeling (I also know about the sanding

). I would be curious to see your block just to see how rounded you opted to make yours on top. Mine was MUCH rounder on top than the picture that Dakota posted, and I think it works great and actually gives a reverse taper / lightbulby shape before bashed...maybe a new trend will start and one day we can all block our own lids!

-John

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:26 am

That block is basically what mine looked like prior to modification, except there was a slight taper on the sides and mucho taper on the front and back. I don't think the flat top is the way to go because when you bash the top in, the flat top blocks have a tendency to pull the sides of the hat in. Fedora

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:14 am

Actually I just asked one of my classmates today, if he could build a new block for me, since the one I got some months ago is just to flat on the upper side (just like Fedora stated).

This time the top should be totally round like a halfcircle, seen from the front and back with absolutely straight sides.

The front and back will have the same radius, leaving the block flat if seen from the side for less than 2" in the middle. (I hope this makes sense to at least Fedora)

Regards,

Marc

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:02 am

I saw that exact same block and had the same thoughts.

That's great to hear about your bondo block. I am really curious to see how it looks. I am amazed that it worked so well for you.

Please keep the information coming.

Pyro.

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 12:47 pm

I thought it might be too flat on top too. What do you think of this one:

Is this more like the one you are modifying?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:10 pm

That one is better, but I added even more to the very top making it a bit more domelike. I have another block on its way that looks like my post modifed one. It's a 7 3/8 though. This particular type of block you don't see much on e-bay. I was lucky to get it. The only bad thing about using bondo to modify a block is that it destroys the esthetic value. Some of these wooden blocks are things of beauty to an old cabinetmaker. I like this new bondo/wood block, but it makes me a bit sick whenever I look at it.

It is hard to tell from pics if there is a little taper in the sides. It seems lots of blocks have just a little built in, and I think this is one thing that the original raiders block didn't have. I think the sides of it were very parallel. Also, if the very top of the block was domelike, this would explain how you could have a 6 inch hat, and it still would not look like a ten gallon hat, heightwise. My post modified block starts to curve in toward the top at the 5 1/4 inch mark. This leaves basically 3/4 an inch ot dome, so to speak. The pre-modifed block curved at the 5 1/4 mark, with the final height being 5 1/2. I am still tweaking this block. I am not 100 per cent satisfied, but I am close, very close. None of this is yet set in concrete, or rather bondo, as of yet. I am interested to see what Pyros block looks like on the top. This will anwer an important question for me at this point. What about it Pyro, you got those pics yet?

regards, Fedora

TheOther Jones · Post by **TheOther Jones** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 7:23 am

Does anyone know what the Optimo block looks like? Any pics? Or at least pics of an unbashed Optimo?

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 9:57 am

Sorry. I dropped the ball on getting those pics. I had company come in this weekend. I am packing the camera right now so I will take it home with me tonight.

Cheers,
Pyro.

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:45 am

The block I made with Bondo, I coated with brown Kiwi leather dye, then put a coat of polyurathane over that. Looks pretty good. I'll have to post a pic later.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:59 am

These are really impressive ideas, guys. Keep up the good work.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:38 pm

Hmmm. What a great idea! This color treatment and sealant would indeed make it a bit more pleasing to the eye. And I wouldn't feel so guilty in covering up this beautiful wooden hat block. Fedora

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:11 pm

Here's the bondo block I made from an old fed crown. it's lighter in spots because I resanded and redyed and recoated with the polyurthane. It's 23 1/2 inches around and 5 3/4 inches high. It has just a little too much taper at the top rear. More bondo build up is called for.

And here's a grab from Pyroxene's clip of Joe Jr. and the block he used on Pyro's HJ:

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:11 am

Looks like that block of Joe's is of the flat top variety. Fedora

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:20 am

That's a great idea. I didn't even think of that.

I took the liberty of making some clearer pics directly from the video source.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:33 am

Fedora wrote:I am interested to see what Pyros block looks like on the top. This will anwer an important question for me at this point. What about it Pyro, you got those pics yet? regards, Fedora

Ok here is the block that I am using. For the record, I have posted the block and a pic of the hat it shaped. In this case, a fed deluxe. (Dial-up users, sorry for the large number of pics.

)

First from the front. The sides are fairly straight.

Here is the pic from the side. You can see the slope in the block. I drew an outline of what I imagine the block needs to be to achieve the correct look.

Here are the remaining shots of the block. You can see it's not quite 6 inches. If I could raise it an inch and 1/2 and get rid of the slope, I would be in great shape.

I have another block on the way. I will post pics and results when I receive it.

Cheers,
Pyroxene

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 11:09 am

Your outlined pic looks pretty much like Joe Jr's. block. Just a little more rounded off than the first pic I posted. I bet he wishes we wouldn't get into this.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:19 pm

I played a little with AutoCAD during the last days.

I came to the result, that the point where the sides go over to the radius on a 5.5" (or 140mm) block should be after 3.15" (80mm) and the radius should start as a 2.36" (60mm) radius and go over to a 3.24" (82.5mm) radius (in my case, becouse my head measures 6.48" (165mm) from side to side.

To test this, I drew the block, seen from the front / back, on paper in a 1:1 scale. Then I put a string on the paper, so it followed the line and glued the string on the paper where it touched the straight sides. Now I could track the string down, turning the "open crown string" into a "bashed crown string". Since I glued the string on the sides, it couldn't "taper", still there was enough string to work with. At the end the top of the "string crown" hat exactly the same shape, as Fedoras Optimo (the one that came out a little short). Everyone has a pen and some string at home, so you can try it yourself with your side to side head measurement and convert the numbers I found out. I've tried a lot of other transition points, changed the radius, etc., but this is what definetly looks best.

Hopefully this makes sense, I really hope so.

Boy, I wish I had a digicam!

Regards,

Marc

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:55 pm

Marc wrote: I came to the result, that the point where the sides go over to the radius on a 5.5" (or 140mm) block should be after 3.15" (80mm) and the radius should start as a 2.36" (60mm) radius and go over to a 3.24" (82.5mm) radius (in my case, becouse my head measures 6.48" (165mm) from side to side.

This sound really interesting but I am not following you. Can you illustrate using a different method?

Thanks,
Pyro

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 4:43 pm

Pyroxene wrote:

This sound really interesting but I am not following you. Can you illustrate using a different method?

I'll try to do so. Take a look at my webpage: http://de.geocities.com/marc_kitter2002/
and click on AutoCAD-Block.

There you'll find three block drawings (the measurements are in mm) seen from the front- / backview. The one I think is the right one is the one in the middle (ever heard a sentence with 3 * "one"?!). All blocks are 5.5" which is as much as 139.7mm (140mm is close enough I think). Ok, as I stated above this is a block for MY headsize, which is 165mm from side to side. Now, if you print out the drawing (or better a negative of it) in the original size (remember the block is 5.5" - so go get that ruler

), and put a string / cord (whatever) along the drawing line, glue it to the paper where the transition point is (80mm from the bottom). Now you pull down the string in the middle from the top of the picture (like you'd bash the hat in the top). You'll see, that you can pull the string VERY far down, without any taper. And that what Fedora said once: something like "I could bash the crown down to the ribbon, without any taper after I got my Fed. Del. reblocked at Optimo."

Hope this helps

Marc

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:04 pm

Hey! That's great! It makes perfect sense now. Thanks.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:36 pm

Thanks for the pics Pyro. I was pretty sure the dome was shaped like that. That is exactly what my looks like now. My block had that same degree of front/back taper, but I fixed that.

I knew when I looked at your reblocked hat that you had the correct shaped dome. That I came up with the same type prior to seeing yours makes me think I am on the right track. As we seem to be finding out, there are several different shaped crowns out there, all domelike, but all different. Really what got me to really thinking about all of this was 3M$, and the things he was doing to his hat. I kinda figured two things separated the Raiders hat from the rest. Thickness of felt, and the block. I have reblocked one hat with this new modified block, and it looks better than a lot of the hats we buy. Blockwise. As I said earlier, I am still tweaking my block, and it is very satisfying, not to mention how my knowledge has increased expotentially. Once you play with these blocks and see how the modifications change the look of the hat, well, it is enlightening. What I like about my block is that it came really streamlined as viewed from the front. After I reblocked it, I ironed the brim out, but left it sorta pull down from the hat. Its a dead ringer for the streets of Cairo. The best that I have ever had anyway. Fedora