Raiders hat was really SO untapered?

[Erri]

It's a well-known fact that we (indyfans) tend, in our mind, to caricature the hat we saw in the film. I'm sure that if we could jump back in 1981 on the movie set we could be suprised to see how THE hat is different from our mental picture we have of it.
Steve as well as many other hatters try to come toward us and our expectations getting close to an idealistic accuracy more than screen accuracy as much as they can, and it's very right in my opinion.

Every raider hat lover wants a 120% untapered hat and I've noticed that even on the reverse tapered hats you can always get pictures of yourself where it looks tapered... that's also in the nature of the original hat.

I now ask you to follow me to see if the Raiders hat was SO untapered as some of us are sure it was.

I start showing the less tapered one, nearly insubstantial prooves but a good start. Everyone knows where they are taken from so I won't comment too much



The sides in both are not 100% parallel as many of us would want them to be.

The next one is a bit blurry from the Well of the Souls



and last but not the least the Idol Grab scene where I think no one of you would ever say "I can believe there is a tapered hat in that sequence"... well wait and see:


What's the matter with that hat? I believe that the raiders hat as well as the Adventurebilt Hats (I can use that as example because I have two of them) give the impression of taper even in the most new and untapered hats when you take a picture from certain angles (low positions for example). The message is: don't expect your hat to look UNTAPERED from every point of view because neither the original raiders hat was!

Now I wait for your thoughts

:post: last proof, I show you a video someone took of me during a tour...
http://erri-wan.adventure-realm.com/3.avi
That should be a tapered hat... movie magic!

[Marc]

Thanks for spoiling my day, by making the Raiders Fedora look ugly :evil:

Regards,

Marc








I was only kidding of course. Good show Errico!

[Erri]

it's not ugly at all of course. Anyway the hat I'm wearing in the video is Pagey's Adventurebilt not the Deluxe.
That hat usually looks tapered when I take pictures but it's not bad at all in video. Something similar happened with raiders, it was just not SO untapered as we're used to think.

Regarding you, Marc and Steve, please keep on doing them as we expect them to be, you two make the best reproduction ever

[Marc]

About you Marc and Steve, please keep on doing them as we expect them to be

Hey Steve, this guy wants a reverse tapered, taper resistent, bullet proof but soft, rain proof, light weight, floppy but shape keeping, signed from Harrison Ford, Herbert Johnson - created by AB, from seal belly fur with cooked in mink oil. Preferabel for less than a pair of boots. Are you game

You two made the best hat ever

Thank you Errico. That's what we're trying to do.

Regards,

Marc

[Erri]

Erri,

Thanks for doing the investigative research on this, as my AB looks exactly like the top right photo from the same view as well. It's nice to find out that it's more screen accurate than I thought!

Nice work,

Ken

Thanks Ken
It was just something I've wanted to post for long time after I read some no-taper-madmen like me
Steve pushed me to post this I hope it will be interesting to read for him aswell.

You two made the best hat ever

Thank you Errico. That's what we're trying to do.

Regards,

Marc

Well my friends, no need to try more, you already are the top

[doc riviere]

Hello to all of you !!!

That's it ! i finally succed to login ....

Well, yes i always thought and said the original hat was tapered, of course depend of the angle. i have some pics of one of my HJ that is the most raiders accurate, but i cant post them.

For me there is only ONE indy hat the HJ !! ( but AB and federation are great hats too, of course )

[Michaelson]

Who's the new guy?

doc, it's about TIME you got yourself in here!!!!

HIGH regards!

Michaelson

[Erri]

Hi doc, welcome back. I'm afraid that a new HJ cannot be compared with a 80's HJ felt hat and now the most close offer of the market is the AB but yes, from many angles also the original screen used hat was tapered.

Plus I want to add... as Indiana Tom skillfully prooved, you can get the same cairo-look also with a slightly tapered hat like the Federation. That adds more to this theory of mine. I hope Tony will came soon to speak for himself

[Hemingway Jones]

A truly untapered hat would never terminate, or it would never be allowed to form those humps.
Fedora's block is spot on, in my opinion. It's getting to the point that some of the Raiders hats are starting to look like ABs to my eye.


And an untapered hat with a tall crown does not an Indy hat make! For example, here is my vintage Borsalino with a very tall crown and completely untapered. The hat is amazing, but it is not an Indy Hat. It shares some simularities, but also major differences. It is very boxy, for instance.

[Fedoraman]

This has always bothered me...it seems like the posed still shots (publicity) photos from Raiders show a perfectly straight sided hat and the action screen-shots from the film show alot of taper.

I wonder what kind of lenses were used during filming as opposed to the lenses used for the stills???

[doc riviere]

Erri, i agree the new HJ is not as good quality as the 80 's but it is the most close thing i 've seen. i sow an original hat years ago and i can tell you the felt color is the most accurate. The AB is a great hat, it' s a fact BUT not the closest hat of the "real" thing ( sorry steve ).

The first HJ i bought was in 1996 directly from R. Swales ( i sold it ...I'M stupid ) he told me for an interview, the felt was very close to one used for the movie

The best raiders hat will be a HJ with a more straight crown

[Erri]

Not sure about the 90's quality of HJs and even less about the words of Mr. Swales. Anyway it must be something to go and buy a hat from him!

This has always bothered me...it seems like the posed still shots (publicity) photos from Raiders show a perfectly straight sided hat and the action screen-shots from the film show alot of taper.

I wonder what kind of lenses were used during filming as opposed to the lenses used for the stills???

The fact is that when you take a picture you can think long about what angle to take it from but in an action movie the person moves a lot and sooner or later you always catch the hat from many angles. Some of them show it tapered (from lower positions of the lens) and others very stright sided (just taking the image from an upper position or of indy ducks). As you might have seen in my video, who was behind the camera was on an upper position and the hat always looked untapered.

[Chewbacca Jones]

Why does that Federation brim look so round? Is it not Dimensional? I ask because I have standard Federation, "untrimmed" as you say, but it has the dimensional brim.

[Erri]

Your Akubras always look fantastic Tone!

[Antone]

A good observation and valid point Erri. On the other hand, I think Marc and yourself also raised a valid point; most folks here don't want a hat that looks like the Raiders hat at its most tapered, as most of us here think it's rather ugly! Shouldn't we be able to get a hat that looks the way the screen hat looks in the shots that we especially like? Even if the appearance of the hat was partially an illusion based on camera angle and the type of lens used, I think people want a hat that looks good, and I don't think that's unreasonable, even if it does mean exaggerating the appearance a little.

Also, it may be worth pointing out that these are not all the same hats; some probably had shrunk/tapered more than others in the course of filming.

Good post though, I've noticed the same thing myself on repeat viewings of Raiders.

Regards,

Antone

[Antone]

Hemingway-

I think the main reason that your borsalino looks "boxy" compared to a Raiders hats is because it is less domed, not because it's untapered.

A fine looking hat though, I'm jealous! Why do they always stop making the good stuff? :evil:

Antone

[Michaelson]

I guess that all depends on your definition of what the 'good stuff' was.

I'm hearing young folks lately referring to items made in the 70's in reverent, nostalgic tones, talking about how well things were made then....when those of us who were setting up housekeeping at the time thought it all was completely garbage!

Regards! Michaelson

[Bufflehead Jones]

I was particularly fond of kitchen design back in the '70s. I wish I still had an orange countertop.

[Fedora]

I was particularly fond of kitchen design back in the '70s.

With the Avocado appliances. But, what a great change from the sterile white ones. Nowadays, I prefer the white. Fedora

[Indiana Blooze]

Hey Buff'
I don't know about orange countertops, but I've got a buddy that might be able to hook you up with some of those radioactive dinner plates.

[Canyon]

"Arghhhh! Those guys over at Club Obi Wan are still going on about my fedora!"

[Strider]

The pic from the Well of the Souls looks a lot like Blooze's hat from thus thread.