Dometakis (the original maker) Raiders shirt pics

[agent5]

I've been going through alot of old pics recently to organize all my stuff and came across these pics of a replica Raiders shirt done by Andre Dometakis, who was the man who did the actual shirts for the production of Raiders.
Long ago he made these for fans but at his leisure and from what I've been told he carried alot of attitude with him. You may wait a year or longer to get one of his shirts and then I heard he stopped making them. This shirt is supposedly the last one made using the EXACT SAME BOLTS from an original Raiders shirt or parts of one to match color. A member here got this shirt but Dometakis accidentally ordered a heavier weight material, apparently double the weight as was necessary to the original and right after buying them he was selling them. Because they were the wrong weight, I passed on them but still kept the pics.







One thing I noticed right off the bat was how the shirt was far from white as alot of people think the Indy shirt was because of overexposure to alot of sunlight and film processing. Recently mention was made that Noel Howard could not have captured the completely correct color since he wasn't the one who actually designed and made the Raiders shirts, Andre was. So, now here we have pics of a Dometakis shirt that was made taken from the same color source as an original Raiders shirt and it actually looks slightly darker than a Noel Howard shirt. The button placement is perfect to the film too.

Seeing this shirt reminded me again of this pic which Fedora posted last week.

Notice the color of the shirt compared to the plain piece of typing paper and even Spielbergs pants. I'd say the Dometakis shirt looks pretty promising for color.

Does anyone know what happened to Andre anyways? I got these pics back in 2002-2003 and that was the last I heard of him.

Anyways, thought some of you might like seeing these.

[binkmeisterRick]

Wow! That's a dark shirt! Did someone mention that there were two shirts makers for Raiders, or am I firing synapses in the wrong direction again? I thought someone had mentioned, or maybe suggested, that there was a darker and a lighter Indy shirt used in the movie. Don't get me wrong, because I DON'T want the same debates to stir up over this like with the hat, I'm just trying to get my facts straight.

That said, I like the pockets on this shirt. The flaps have the slightest scallop to them which I think is nice. I actually like the color of this shirt, too. It makes it look a bit more like a military shirt to me.

[Michaelson]

Once again, agent5 came through, as I asked about this shirt in the NH shirt discussion a couple weeks ago. Here's the very shirt I was thinking about.

Thanks again!!

Regards! Michaelson

[Bufflehead Jones]

I wish someone would have asked Andre Dometakis what possessed him to put pleats down the front of the shirt. It is very unusual, but, it does make Indy's shirt very unique.

[Pitfall Harry]

So that shirt is supposed to be what the original might have looked like in person? I guess if you want to look like Indy as he appeared onscreen you have to buy a lighter colored shirt but if you want accurate then you'd go with that color.

[Indy Magnoli]

Notice the diagonal cut on the cuffs. Very different.

Kind regards,
Magnoli

[Ripper]

Pitfall Harry wrote:

So that shirt is supposed to be what the original might have looked like in person? I guess if you want to look like Indy as he appeared onscreen you have to buy a lighter colored shirt but if you want accurate then you'd go with that color.

I'm pretty sure that it was distressed beyond belief before Harry even put it on. I'm sure it faded somewhat. Not to mention lighting issues, plus the use of more than one shirt. Just my 2 pennies.

[McFly]

Check out this shot from LC - definitely not white, but look how dark it is!


Must be that same shirt... hmm!!

But then here's a shot from later on. I took this particular shot because you get that same sort of contrast with white. Here it is:


Now this shirt is probably a little faded, and maybe the lighting affects it (artificial Zeppelin light vs the sun) but you can definitely see how it's much darker than the white. Great pics, A5!

Magnoli - is there a way you can make some like this color? lol

In Christ,
Shane

[Indiana Texas-girl]

One question I have is: Is the background behind the shirt on agent5's pics supposed to be white. It's showing up as a light blue. If it is supposed to be white that could change the hue of the shirt a bit. I'd be happy to do a color correction using color cast in Photoshop.

[Erri]

I thought the shirts were originally designed by Andre Dometakis but they were then reproduced by MBA Costumes in London where they were filming. Is this incorrect?

[Baggers]

Notice the diagonal cut on the cuffs. Very different.

Kind regards,
Magnoli

The fabric color looks like the darker "British" version of khaki. Almost identical to the shade being used today by manufacturers like Bill's Khakis for their trousers. Their version is called "British Khaki" (oddly enough) and can found in twill and poplin weaves.

Also note that the collar has a very nice taper to its lower edge as it comes off the shoulder from around the back of the neck. Very appropriate to tailoring practices back in the 1930s.

And take a close look at the buttons. They're just the plain tan plastic ones used on the old WW2 era British Army Khaki Drill uniforms that were worn in tropical climates. I think they're also being used on the current issue desert DPM uniform.

There you go Magnoli, does that give you any ideas for refinements to your offering?

Cheers!

[Hemingway Jones]

What a tremendous resource in having these photos.
What strikes me is what a well-made shirt it is. The stitching looks excellently around the collar and the pockets, yet hidden on the pleats.
The photo of the tag makes it appear as if there is a seam running down the back of the shirt, though this could just be the photo.

I have seen that angled cut on the cuffs of some upscale dress shirts.

[Baggers]

Yes, it does look very well made, Hem. As for that seam starting down the back of the shirt from the bottom of the shoulder yoke, perhaps that's the back side of a sewn center pleat?

At any rate, between the scalloped pocket flaps, the shaped collar and the color (assuming it's more screen accurate than what's currently available), I wouldn't mind having one with those features in a pure cotton poplin.

Cheers!

[Pitfall Harry]

Pitfall Harry wrote:

So that shirt is supposed to be what the original might have looked like in person? I guess if you want to look like Indy as he appeared onscreen you have to buy a lighter colored shirt but if you want accurate then you'd go with that color.

I'm pretty sure that it was distressed beyond belief before Harry even put it on. I'm sure it faded somewhat. Not to mention lighting issues, plus the use of more than one shirt. Just my 2 pennies.

Maybe they bleached it a few times or something because I watched Raiders again and it's not as dark as that.....atleast not in the Cairo Scenes.

[Ripper]

If I remember right, I read somewhere they took like 20 pairs of pants and shirts and washed them numerous times , beat them against rocks, dragged them etc....

[Pitfall Harry]

Well, looks like I better get started on my gear then! Hahahaha....

All kidding aside that is a great looking shirt and I wish they were still available.

[Ripper]

You and me both! I sold off most of my gear, I don't even have a hat anymore. I'm like my dad, I sell stuff off to buy better, I just haven't done that yet. The only thing I will never sell is my Paul Nolan whip. Never ever.

[Alan Eardley]

It's interesting (to me anyway) that the shirt has British Army style buttons.

[Erri]

Tell me whatever you want but that shirt is not so accurate. In primis the epaulettes are completely wrong (wrong size and wrong position and even wront length) and I doubt about the colour too. I'm sure that the original shirt was not stone/white (whatever people think to see in some of the cairo scenes) but that colour is not correct anyway. Not even matching with the wonderful screengrabs that McFly posted. Noel Howard shirt is correct on that colour.
Plus those scalloped pockets were not SO scalloped in Raiders.

With this I said enough, the so famous original shirt is completely disappointing IMHO.

[Ripper]

Its still a good looking shirt. Accurate is in the eye of the beholder. It looks different from scene to scene. Unless you were on the set, no one can really say for sure.

[Erri]

Under this supposition we can also say that Indy had a rabbit in the hat in most of the scenes because no one of us here was on the set to confirm the opposite.

This shirt doesn't look the most accurate indy shirt ever like someone else said before and as a matter of fact it's not. Surely it doesn't worth 400 dollars and over a year of expectation.

If Dometakis is really an artist it explans a lot!

[VP]

Indy had a rabbit in the hat

Well his hat WAS made out of rabbit fur...

[Erri]

I think it's identical to the Last Crusade shirt but not to the Raiders shirt.
More scalloped pockets, smaller epaulettes buttoned far on the back of the shoulder (same position on the Wested shirts) while the raiders shirts had them buttoned just slightly behind the shoulder seam and they were longer and larger than in LC.

[The real Henry]

You're right Erri! Another point could be the collar, it looks smaller than the one we see in Raiders AND it's the same thing with the Dometakis shirt.

BTW- On my screen the shirt appears in a olive green like the MKVII and not as a dark khaki!

[Ripper]

Erri wrote:

Under this supposition we can also say that Indy had a rabbit in the hat in most of the scenes because no one of us here was on the set to confirm the opposite.

Now that's just being a smartazz. I was just making a point that all of his gear , not just the shirt , looks different on screen that it does off screen. Not a good comparison. He also carries a turtle in his pocket, just in case he needs to make soup.

[Alan Eardley]

[quote="Baggers
The fabric color looks like the darker "British" version of khaki. Almost identical to the shade being used today by manufacturers like Bill's Khakis for their trousers. Their version is called "British Khaki" (oddly enough) and can found in twill and poplin weaves.

Also note that the collar has a very nice taper to its lower edge as it comes off the shoulder from around the back of the neck. Very appropriate to tailoring practices back in the 1930s.

And take a close look at the buttons. They're just the plain tan plastic ones used on the old WW2 era British Army Khaki Drill uniforms that were worn in tropical climates. I think they're also being used on the current issue desert DPM uniform.[/quote]

Baggers

I noted the same things. The collar curve is very nice. The colour on my monitor is a little more green than what we Brits call khaki, but it's very close. I hadn't read your post (careless!) when I posted above about the buttons, but you're right.

The buttons that are like WW2 tropical are not the current desert ones (which are the Canadian pattern) but the '90 ('First Gulf War') Pattern. They are too large for use on a shirt, but OK for the tunic.

Alan

[J_Weaver]

I have a pair of Officer's Twill pants from Orvis that are a very similar color.

[Mike]

...Long ago he made these for fans but at his leisure and from what I've been told he carried alot of attitude with him. You may wait a year or longer to get one of his shirts and then I heard he stopped making them.

...A member here got this shirt but Dometakis accidentally ordered a heavier weight material, apparently double the weight as was necessary to the original and right after buying them he was selling them.

And thus ends the mystery of the item I waited 11 years for.

I never did get the 'original' dometakis shirt, but did buy one of the heavy-weight ones that were sold here out of curiosity. The shirt is a LOT heavier than the MBA shirts, and there are more inaccuracies than just the darkness. The buttons are the wrong style and the pleates aren't sewed at the pocket, thus are one continuous pleate until it goes under the pocket flap. I planned on taking photos of mine when the shirt section gets updated on the new site.

Mike

[Erri]

So who started to doubt about Noel Howard and voted for Dometakis as the most accurate just because he was the original maker, can also take it back

never trust artists guys!

Thanks Mike for the promised pics, I'm rather curious also to see new other updates.

[Shawnkara]

This is one of those things that comes down to what I've started calling "screen accurate" vs. "prop accurate". Yes, film processing, lighting and such can change the color of almost anything. This is when you have to ask yourself what you really want: an item that is as it appeared in real life, or as it appeared on SCREEN. Since film characters are fictional and really only exist on that film, and that's what we want (Indy's shirt, NOT Harrison Ford's shirt) I much prefer to have what I see on the screen. So, for me, that shirt would never work. I don't care if the 'real' RAIDERS shirt was pink with green stripes, it photographed off-white/VERY light tan. It's a good match for the LC shirt, though. Those shirts were quite a bit darker. Some of them looked gray, too.

[Erri]

A part from the colour issue. The design of the shirt showed by agent5 is Last Crusade style and not Raiders... whatever Mr.Dometakis or the owners of his shirts claim it is

[IndyK]

Sometimes fiction takes over where reality becomes boring. Remember "From noon til three" starring Charles Bronson?

Sorry to break into this thread with just nostalgy, but it reminds me very much of the days shortly after the premiere of Raiders. I started looking for gear that looked like the images I had in my head allready in 1981, and even after having seen Raiders 4 times in one week in those days, I believed the shirt was khaki.
Funny as it may seem I was wrong. Or at least - today I get the feeling I was. I think the historical facts of the actual shirts from back then should be told by those who actually know. Not by people guessing, assuming and comparing real life to multi-copyed film versions.
And so, whats real? I dont know, but I'm so tired of reading never ending debates of what may have been right. I'm not going after anyone in this thread, and by the way, Agent 5 is a terrific RP IMO (thats what I call a Raiders Purist in my humble language danish...) so any info from him gets an immediate place in my "Indy hall of fame".
So whats my point? Screen accuracy! How many shirts was washed how many times and with what washingmachine? Please, anyone who owns one of the film-used shirts, chime in and tell Your story, this is becoming too much of a dejavu...........

Cheers