Lightweight Indy Shirt

Texas Jones · Post by **Texas Jones** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:46 pm

I have the Deadlock Indy shirt and I was wondering what is the best lightweight indy shirt available. I know there is Wested, WPG (or Todd's), and Magnoli shirts, but I really want the most lightweight shirt. So which is it? I live in the hot climate of North Texas. I realy want an Indy shirt that is of lightest weight for this heat. Anyone have all three to compare? Any help is appreciated!

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:08 pm

I second what Blues is offering. I own one of those shirts too and it is vert light and comfortable. That pic on the website doesn't do it justice either. You can't see the pleats going down the shirt but it does have them. The only thing it's missing are the epauletes.

Plus, it's only $24 bucks.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:12 am

I was wonderfully surprised with the Old Navy shirt. It's comfy, lightweight, and will probably be my all around summer shirt. I've toyed with the idea of getting another one and taking it to a tailor to add epaulets, but I figure at that point I'd just get a Wested. The shirt IS very Indy as it is. It's a great off-the-shelf-close-enough!

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:19 am

Agreed, the Old Navy shirt is great. I picked up 2 Tan and 1 White. Super comfortable and great in the warm weather.

Cheers,
G-MANN

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:10 am

I've got a question. Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me but are there three colors the Old Navy shirt comes in?

I was out yesterday at the Old Navy where I live and they had white and tan. I didn't see the cream color. Is the tan the cream? I was looking at it and thinking "wait a minute my shirt doesn't look that dark"

If there are three then my Old Navy was out of the cream completely. Maybe Fort Wayne has some closet "Indy Gear Fans" that I don't know about.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:28 am

I believe the tan and cream colors are one and the same. I only saw two colors when I went to Old Navy. I was a little concerned when I first got the tam/cream shirt, thinking it would be too dark. But after placing it next to various Indyish pants I have, I knew it was the right color to go for.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:29 am

I've never seen the Magnoli in person, but as far as lightweight goes, I think the Noel Howard shirt is the best in terms of accuracy and lightweight material.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:30 am

Too bad he doesn't make them anymore, unless something finally changed in that department.

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:38 am

Sorry Harry,

I did not mean to confuse you. Cream.

John

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:49 am

G-MANN wrote:Sorry Harry,

I did not mean to confuse you. Cream.

John

Oh, no you didn't confuse me. I was thinking about this yesterday when I saw the shirt again at the store and I thought it looked darker then the one I bought. Then I read the "tan" comment and I started thinking maybe they do have a third color after all.

I'm looking at the shirt now and I swear that the shirt I saw yesterday with the white is tan and not the cream that I originally bought. I don't think it was the lighting in the store either because when I got my shirt I knew right away which color "The Jones Boys" had bought.

I may go back and look again today if I have the time. I want to make sure the cream color is still available. I don't want them switching their run in mid stream and then not being able to get another cream if I wanted too.

That would be just my luck.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:51 am

G-MANN wrote:Sorry Harry,

I did not mean to confuse you. Cream.

John

Cream, no, tan --AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!

Actually, if you're on a plane, the shirt magically changes color.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:55 am

agent5 wrote:I've never seen the Magnoli in person, but as far as lightweight goes, I think the Noel Howard shirt is the best in terms of accuracy and lightweight material.

I guess another factor to consider is the price. IF the Noel Howard was still available then it would probably cost a lot more. If however you were on a tight budget and you had to choose I would have to say the Old Navy is a good close enough at a great price.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:56 am

Pitfall Harry wrote:I may go back and look again today if I have the time. I want to make sure the cream color is still available. I don't want them switching their run in mid stream and then not being able to get another cream if I wanted too.

According to their website, the shirt only comes in white and cream. No third color, unless you spill spaggetti down the front of your shirt.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:01 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:
G-MANN wrote:Sorry Harry,

I did not mean to confuse you. Cream.

John
Cream, no, tan --AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!

Actually, if you're on a plane, the shirt magically changes color.

You also have to factor in what your drinking depends on the shirts color too.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:06 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:
Pitfall Harry wrote:I may go back and look again today if I have the time. I want to make sure the cream color is still available. I don't want them switching their run in mid stream and then not being able to get another cream if I wanted too.
According to their website, the shirt only comes in white and cream. No third color, unless you spill spaggetti down the front of your shirt.

Yeah, I just saw that. This is strange. I have noticed that certain websites will only carry certain things while the actual local stores will have a bigger selection.

Not to say that you aren't right Bink and old age is finally starting to effect my vision.

I wonder if I can sneek a pic using my cell phone camera of the shirt. Hmm...I don't know how good the quality of the shot will be though or if I won't get thrown out.

Boy, there was this one time in the girls changing area.....let me tall ya.. I err....never mind.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:16 pm

Indiana_Tone wrote:Noticed that too, Pitfall. There did seem to be two variant shades of the Old Navy off-white in the store. Subtle differences, but in some cases the shirts were a little darker than others of the same. (Seeing them pitted right next to the white ones makes them look more tan than off-white.) Once they're home and away from anything "white", they're the right color again.

I'm wondering if the stores are getting different stuff. This wasn't that subtle it was just tan even away from the white. It looked like this color....

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:18 pm

VERY true that the NH shirts are more expensive than any other offering, but if you want screen accuracy then start saving your pennies, cuz' this is the way to go. He sources them from the same weight and color of material used in the original films and nobody else has done that to date. I'm stiull trying to figure out why, but that's probably for another post.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:25 pm

agent5 wrote:VERY true that the NH shirts are more expensive than any other offering, but if you want screen accuracy then start saving your pennies, cuz' this is the way to go. He sources them from the same weight and color of material used in the original films and nobody else has done that to date. I'm stiull trying to figure out why, but that's probably for another post.

Yeah, but Bink was correct in saying that NH no longer makes the shirts, right?

So in your opinion what would be the next best Indy shirt below the NH as far as accuracy goes....color and all?

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:28 pm

Agent5, is Noel selling merchandise again? I must have missed this.

I have a Wested shirt and live in southern Japan which is sub-tropical and unbelievably humid in the summer. It's not the coolest gear for summer wear, but with the sleeves rolled up, and the shirt untucked I find it fairly comfortable.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:07 pm

There is an easy explanation for the color difference in the Old Navy shirts: dye lots. Depending on what dye lot the material of the shirts were, you can get some variation in the hue.

Ad for Noel Howard, I was under the impression that he said he was going to start producing shirts and such again, but has yet to follow through on that.

Floribama Steve · Post by **Floribama Steve** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:00 pm

My only problem with the Magnoli shirt is that it has such a dressy look to it. I might have to get one of those ON shirts for field use.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:18 pm

Indiana_Tone wrote:
Pitfall Harry wrote:
Indiana_Tone wrote:Noticed that too, Pitfall. There did seem to be two variant shades of the Old Navy off-white in the store. Subtle differences, but in some cases the shirts were a little darker than others of the same. (Seeing them pitted right next to the white ones makes them look more tan than off-white.) Once they're home and away from anything "white", they're the right color again.
I'm wondering if the stores are getting different stuff. This wasn't that subtle it was just tan even away from the white. It looked like this color....

Positive it wasn't another similar style of tan shirt from another rack that someone just hung up amid the "close-enoughs?" There were a couple non-close enoughs hung with them also. At a glance around the store it all looks like the same clothes. You know, kind of like the GAP....khaki pants and jean jackets. 18,000 varieties of the same style.

Yeah, because I picked it up and it had the pleats and the arm pocket. That picture I posted was the closest I could find to the color I saw.

Bink might be right. Maybe they sold out of the cream here and then the next batch out of the boxes looked like that. I need to go back there and look again.

I remember seeing it and thinking that looks more TOD than Raiders in color.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:19 pm

Ragingblues wrote:It's hard to say that the Noel Howard is softer than the Magnoli, unless you have held them both in your hands. Magnoli says that hes uses the same material as Noel did, so who knows. I have the Magnoli, and I can say that it's great... though not as soft as the Old Navy shirt. It feels a touch dressier, which I'm guessing is a higher thread count.

Ken

Let's just put it this way. The Old Navy shirt is the perfect shirt to wear in a fight. If it gets ripped or torn up then all you have to do is go back and buy another one right off the rack!

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:02 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote: Ad for Noel Howard, I was under the impression that he said he was going to start producing shirts and such again, but has yet to follow through on that.

Noel is very easy to contact... there is his email on the main website. He's rather kind. No big mysteries about him like many people here think. Just drop him a line and everything will be explained

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 8:00 pm

Have you been in contact with him lately, erri?

Regards! Michaelson

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:36 am

Michaelson wrote:Have you been in contact with him lately, erri?

Regards! Michaelson

Yes Mike and he solved all the mysteries with only one kind email. He told me he's still in business and if you want to buy something just send him an email.

Now just a simple suggestion: I know we're nut and I understand all the field work we do about the origins and the details of indy gear but Noel is just a costume maker and he's not nut for Indy, it's just (or it was just) his job, So a wise suggestion would be not to hassle him like some people do with the poor Peter of Wested Leather Co.

that's my opinion

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:28 am

Odd, erri. He has, in the past, been the BIGGEST supporter of the fan, next to Peter, and actually keeps ringed binders with all the corrospondence and photos of everyone who has contacted him regarding the gear for future reference, so in the past he's always WANTED to hear from us.

Now you're suggesting he doesn't want that contact?

He's also been oddly selective in who he writes now too, as he contacted US to tell us he would be coming out with product again, then fell off the face of the planet. NOW you say he's replying to you, and a few others, but not the folks who have supported him and his product for decades? That's a REALLY weird way to do business, if you ask me.

Noel, if you're reading these pages, it would be appreciated if you'd take the time to explain why you've taken this tact now? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Regards! Michaelson

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:26 am

Don't know. Maybe I've been polite

He was polite with me, don't know what people usually write him. I don't feel like answering for him but after decades of the same questions about the same details maybe someone could also get bored to hear the same stuff all the time.

About contacting people I felt he is often very busy and maybe he reads emails delaying the answer and then ends up forgetting to answer, it can happen to everyone. That could be an explanation why you not always receive an answer.
I've noticed he checks the email more or less at most once a week.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:08 am

erri, he contacted us regarding coming back into the business of gear. We replied, no further response, so it was not a matter of 'how we wrote him'. Speaking for myself, I've had numerous pleasant exchanges with Noel since our days at Indyfan back in the mid 90's and up to his retirement, so his current lack of contact has been quite unsettling. A COMPLETE change in practice for the man.

Odd.

Thanks, erri.

Regards! Michaelson

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:23 am

Well in Mr.Howard's defense I might suppose maybe he's just not ready for MASSIVE quantity of orders that's why he didn't say that officially on the board. Maybe he's still organizing for that. Well I hope he will eventually came in and write for himself, I don't really like to talk for others.

Best regards

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:22 pm

Hmm...I'm having the weirdest case of deja vu with you last post, Agent 5!

Ok, never mind the mysterious forces that rule over this site fixed the triple posting.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:29 pm

Magnoli says that hes uses the same material as Noel did, so who knows.

I was under the impression that Magnoli uses the same design to the screen but was close to the NH in fabric and color. Am I wrong and is he sourcing the same matrial and weight as the NH shirts? Can anyone confirm this?

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:43 pm

I remember he said he would have sourced for that material... can't remember if he finally did... let me PM him, he will come in soon

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:41 pm

So which is lighter to wear in the summer the Noel Howard, Magnoli or the Old Navy?

I know the Old Navy isn't "screen accurate" but what I'm looking for is something that looks good and I'm not going to be dripping with sweat.

So far from the shirts I own the Old Navy is the lightest. The next, I think , would be the "pilot shirt" and then the Cabela's.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 2:50 pm

Ragingblues wrote:He was going to try to source this same material in "swiss cotton", at last word of it. I'm not sure how much difference it will make as to where the cotton comes from

sorry for the laugh but I think that happened in the 18th century. Now I believe swiss cotton is just a quality of cotton and it doesn't mean it's only produced in Switzerland

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:05 pm

Thread counts are one of those brilliant marketing inventions that can be misleading and mean little if not quoted on the same perameters. Like MHz on computers etc and I can't tell you the number of times someone's parroted dpi at me without knowing what the **** it means.

You will also be hard pressed to find thread count information on fabrics outside the US.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:14 pm

dpi, you mean dolts per idiot?

Actually, in that case, I deal with a lot of dpi's!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:57 pm

One of the main reasons we see heavier weight shirts today is that alot of people complained the NH was too light.
I'm certian it was lighter than the Wested and the WPG, but as far as Magnoli and any of the name brand offerings, I don't know cuz I haven't seen them in person.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:02 pm

I hadn't thought of this before, but if you want a high quality lightweight shirt Filson's Feather Cloth Shirt is very nice. Its a bit on the expensive side (especially since you can get a more accurate shirt for about the same price) but it is a very nice, very light shirts none the less.

Filson Feather Cloth Shirt

Edit: I also find it interesting that the tight weave of the cloth gives it an UPF rating.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:32 pm

Yup, I got to agree on the Old Navy shirt. Its really a nice, light shirt for general wear. For $25 you really can't go wrong.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 4:41 pm

I remember hearing the term "Mercerized" but not really ever understanding what it meant so here goes:

Mercerized cotton
Mercerization is a treatment for cotton fabric and thread mostly employed to give cotton a lustrous appearance. The series of processes was devised by John Mercer (scientist) in the middle of the 19th century.

Mercerized cotton is cotton thread that has been treated with sodium hydroxide (NaOH). The thread is given a caustic soda bath that is then neutralized with an acid bath. This treatment increases strength, luster, affinity to dye and resistance to mildew, and also reduces lint. Long staple fibre lengths respond best to mercerization.

So, you get stronger, shinier cotton, maybe this is why a mercerized shirt looks generally "dressier". Another source refered to the fibres as being "polished" by the sodium hydroxide.

It seems to me that an untreated cotton would be closer to Indy's shirt.

Post by **Indy Magnoli** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:19 pm

Yes, after discussing this with my cloth suppliers, apparently my shirts are made of mercerized cotton, but that has nothing to do with the weight, I suppose, which is the issue being discussed right now. I haven't handled a NH shirt either, but it seems that the weight of my shirt is very similar to a Wested.

Kind regards,
Indy

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:29 pm

Indy Magnoli wrote:Yes, after discussing this with my cloth suppliers, apparently my shirts are made of mercerized cotton, but that has nothing to do with the weight, I suppose, which is the issue being discussed right now. I haven't handled a NH shirt either, but it seems that the weight of my shirt is very similar to a Wested.

Kind regards,
Indy

Not a dig!

Just an observation, perhaps this is why people are commenting on the softness of the Old Navy, tho I haven't seen one yet ... this would suggest it is a thinner "unpolished" cotton.

There's no doubt that the mercerized cloth is a higher spec material, but perhaps the softer, natural cotton is more appropriate. From the description of the process the mercerized cotton would seem to be a crisper feeling fabric, perhaps a bit like the high cotton/polyester blends out there. (That sounded like a Fedora Lounge post!

).

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:30 pm

the mercerized cotton would seem to be a crisper feeling fabric, perhaps a bit like the high cotton/polyester blends out there

BINGO!

That Old Navy shirt does sound nice. You could probably buy another and have a seamstress cut the second one up and use the material to make the pleats down the front.