Where is the glory in What Price Glory?

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:35 am

I bought a shirt from WPG to make a present to my uncle. The reason I bought from WPG was because he was advertising that the shirt is 'full body' and my uncle is the full body type of guy!

When the shirt arrived discovered to my disappointed that the shirt was 'Made in Pakistan' And now I ask you guys, I buy a shirt from the US from a store that sells military uniforms and the shirt instead of being 'Proudly Made in the USA' is made in Pakistan. (I have nothing against Pakistan, but if you go there you will realize that I am wrong).
So, where is the glory of What Price Glory?

Also the shirt's sleeves were longer than expected. The material quality was good, but the cloth weight is heavy, i.e. too thick. Absolutely no comparison to the light weight shirt we see in the Cairo scenes.

Also, the shirt has a pleat in the middle of the back. I don't remember how it is in the film, but from some pics I 've seen the Magnoli shirt doesn't have it.

What I liked about the shirt was the collar.

Best regards,
Platon

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:59 am

Pakistan, huh? Well, my Wested shirt sleeves are too long for my short arms. I'm sure they will give you your money back if you ask nicely. Jerry (of WPG, not Indiana Jerry) recently sent me a replica MKVII bag by accident, instead of the original model I ordered from him. He corrected it within a day, and I had my replacement 1940's issue bag on Monday.

Just try asking for your money back. He's usually decent about it.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:10 am

Not sure I totally understand the problem. The Magnoli shirt is made in New Zealand. The Wested in England. I'm not personally aware of any actual 'Indy' patterned shirt that IS made in the U.S., unless it's a one off high end tailored version.

The name 'What Price Glory' may also be referreing to the gloriously low price, rather than 'pride of the nation' ideal. If you check around Wal-Mart, MOST of that stuff is made off shore, and they blatently advertise 'proudly made in the U.S.', so I'm afraid we're more of a member of the global economy than we're willing to admit.

Regards! Michaelson

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:51 am

Hands across the water, so to speak.....

Regards! Michaelson

PLATON · Post by **PLATON** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:54 am

Michaelson you always speak wise. What you say is correct of course. Most products are now made in 3rd world countries. It's just that the indy shirt is not an ordinary item. To my opinion, a US maker should make it Made in USA.

Now I didn't feel much of that gloriously low price as the shirt came at $89. With $89 in my 3rd world country (Greece) you can buy brand names. Anyway, it's just a pity that they don't make it in USA.

Also, I don't suppose you want to compare the UK 'by appointment to her Majesty the Queen' and New Zealand products with Pakistani products.

Indy Magnoli if you read this and you make the shirt in Taiwan or similar country please let us know, will ya?

(Luckily, we have still have the "handcrafted by British craftsmen' or what Wested states, can't remember)

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:57 am

Platon, if your not looking to spend a lot on a shirt and you want something close-enough and light weight The Jones Boys found a shirt that's really close to Indy's shirt in Raiders at Old Navy. You should go check out that thread and see for yourself. I'm sure they'd have a size that would fit your uncle.

And to be honest I could care less where the shirt is made as long as it's made well and doesn't fall apart I'm happy.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:08 am

I especially enjoy the American flags, with the "Made in Taiwan" tag attached to them.

An amazing contradiction, isn't it???

I'm with Platon on this. We should be making this stuff here, giving American citizens more money to do jobs they normally would want to hand over to illegals. Believe me, if they offered more money for jobs like these we'd have Americans lining up.

As far as Michealsons comments on other items made outside the US, well...Magnoli LIVES in New Zealand. Wested IS in England. WPG is in the US and are outsourcing their stuff. If that's not a large problem in this country, then I don't know what is. As far as I'm concerned, they need to fix this problem before the immigration problem we have. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for overseas trade, etc., but this country is in an outsourcing mess that I see no fix for and it's only getting worse.

In the end who wins? BIG corporations. That's who.

OK, end rant.

Platon, may I suggest that from now on you do a little more research into the products you buy that are 'advertised' on this board. I'm sure all of what you found wrong about the WPG shirt has been talked about here before. I do certainly recall the back pleat issue so I know for a fact that was mentioned in older threads. Bottom line is most of, if not all of the products from vendors here have been reviewed again and again and if you did not already and looking through the archives can definitely help you make the right decision for you about your gear.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:29 am

PLATON wrote: Also, I don't suppose you want to compare the UK 'by appointment to her Majesty the Queen' and New Zealand products with Pakistani products.

I'm making no comparisons at all, nor did I even imply as much, so I'd appreciate my words not being taken out of context.

I'm just stating the fact that the locations of ALL the above mentioned items were NOT made in the U. S., and that I'm not aware of any off the shelf production of an actually patterned Indy shirt BEING made in the U. S. Just because it's being sold here, it should not be taken for granted that it was MADE here.

This has been known about WPG's products since we first heard of Jerry while at Indyfan. Why the surprise now about his outsourcing?

Regards! Michaelson

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:55 am

This has been known about WPG's products since we first heard of Jerry while at Indyfan. Why the surprise now about his outsourcing?

I had no idea at all, but that's probably because I had no interest in any of their products. All I can do is sit back and shake my head. Still, it is good to know where out gear actually comes from, IMHO. Had I wanted to order from WPG, knowing they outsource to Pakistan may have made a difference in my buying that product and I know I'm not the only American to think as such.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:19 pm

Wow....

Who knew a discussion about a shirt could turn political!

I guess I don't understand the main problem, was it because it was made in Pakistan or that it didn't turn out to be the "Indiana Jones" style you wanted?

I would suggest the same thing as the post above. Send it back if your not happy with it and buy a Magnoli or Wested because at least you know where their coming from up front and it's not going to be a shock to you.

The Old Navy shirt I mentioned above.....it's made in India!!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:25 pm

The Old Navy shirt I mentioned above.....it's made in India!!

D'OH!!!

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:31 pm

Jerry of WPG always stands behind his stuff, so rest assured there.

As for the sleeve length; I am assuming it was longer than that which was ordered? With Jerry you do get to choose your sleeve length. Sometimes, washing it will take care of that.

As to material; it is pretty light compared to say, the LL Bean shirt that is my personal favorite. That is a heavy shirt.

Made in Pakistan is to keep his margins where he wants them and all of this was discussed before.

So, the lesson is: an informed customer is a happy customer.

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:40 pm

Yeah, you really can't fault the guy for going outside the US to much. If you can have something made cheaper at a decent quality then that's good business! Otherwise your not going to turn a profit. If I owned a buisness I would probably do the same thing.

Just be thankful there are people making clothing or we'd all be naked!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:00 pm

Yep. Jerry's outsourcing has been common knowledge since he was first approached (then over run by the 'Indy fanatics' as he called us then) for the Mk VII bag he was selling at that time. But as has been pointed out, if you weren't looking at the nuts and bolts of the vendor sales at that time, it was easy to overlook. I was up to my neck in vendor contacts back then, so that's why I knew it.

He THEN realized this was a gold mine, and started creating his outsourced products. That was in the mid 90's, as I recall.

Regards! michaelson

Serial Hero · Post by **Serial Hero** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:11 pm

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045323/

Pitfall Harry · Post by **Pitfall Harry** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:17 pm

Serial Hero wrote:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045323/

Hahahaa...What?!

I'm guessing all the shirts in this film were made in Taiwan!

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:35 pm

I think the original shirts were probably made in England.

Unfortunately, companies outsourcing production or services is an inevitable consequence of globalisation.

Former U. S. Labor Secretary, Robert Reich put it eloquently:

We are living through a transformation that will rearrange the politics and economics of the coming century. There will be no national products or technologies, no national corporations, no national industries. There will no longer be national economies, at least as we have come to understand that concept. All that will remain rooted within national borders are the people who comprise a nation .

As more and more smaller companies struggle to compete against the trend set by the multinationals, it becomes a case of , ahem, keeping up with the Jonses...so companies decide to outsource.

It's not just about America, we have the same situation here in the UK too.

Regards

Al

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:37 pm

To your credit, though, when we see a 'Made by British Craftsman' tag in a Wested jacket, we know it wasn't made in Taiwan.

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:37 pm

agent5 wrote:
The Old Navy shirt I mentioned above.....it's made in India!!
D'OH!!!

hahaha...and it's even w/in the realm of possibility that the fictional Indy's shirt was made outside the US, too, so it's possibly even more "canonically-correct" to buy and wear it as if you were a world-traveller.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:38 pm

Made in Pakistan is to keep his margins where he wants them

Yeah, you really can't fault the guy for going outside the US to much.

I'm not trying to down anybody, cuz' there are ALOT of companies doing exactly the same thing to make a buck and keep the business afloat. Some exploit but most do good business and there is absolutely nothing wrong with. We need a global economy. Our world has always depended on foreign business and trade. But, on the other hand, when you take logical comments like the ones above but apply them to a much, much larger context, then it begins to hurt Americans in the long run. Most of the world has cheaper labor and materials then the US does but if more and more companies keep going outside the US to get our stuff made, where does that put American workers and the unemployment level, not even adding in the recent immigration thing that's taking place?
Yes, we do have stuff being made right here in the US, but if more and more and more and more companies start to turn to outsourcing, there won't be enough Americans with jobs to buy the products they'll be trying to sell to us. It's a long way off, but we need to do something now before it's too late.
We need to set some standards for the economic good and for the future of our country.
Foreign business is good, but all of this is something different.

Don't get me wrong either, I'm not trying to be a monkey wrench in WPG's enterprise. I realize every business is looking out for ways to maximize profits while still turning out a quality product and by all accounts they do for the stuff they sell on this board. I completely acknowledge that. It's really big business that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Some of you will understand what I'm talking about.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:41 pm

Sure, but let's not depart on the trail of politics now, which IS contrary to the rules of the site, and that's where this one is really going now.

It may end up being kept as an example string as to WHY posts get locked around here....a question that seems to pop up quarterly in the feedback section.

The political situation exists, that's true, but there are other forums MUCH better suited for that type discussion (and Ren, if you drop one more link or advertisement in here for your site, so help me I'll nuke you myself. :evil:

)

Regards! Michaelson

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:44 pm

Michaelson wrote:To your credit, though, when we see a 'Made by British Craftsman' tag in a Wested jacket, we know it wasn't made in Taiwan.

Regards! Michaelson

Yes, Peter is very proud of that fact and is steadfastly keeps his manufacturing here.

Serial Hero · Post by **Serial Hero** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:56 pm

Jerry has never said these shirts were made in ‘merica.

In fact, I thought he was pretty open about them being made in Pakistan during the design process. Check some of the old threads (VP, that’s your queue).

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:31 pm

Correct. It's never been a secret.

Regards! Michaelson

Serial Hero · Post by **Serial Hero** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:02 pm

So what's all the hoopla about then?

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:06 pm

There is no hoopla. Just a discussion.

Sorry if I got this entire thread off track. I said I had no idea they outsourced for the shirts cuz I never read ANY of the posts conscerning this shirt in the past. When I found out today in this thread I voiced my opinion on it, but since Michaelson asked to tone it down I'm done with my political rant. I got it all in anyways.

Sorry for the sidtrack but seriously, there is no hoopla.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:16 pm

No problem, 5. You make good points as usual, and as long as the ball isn't picked up and someone tries to run with it, we're good.

Regards! Michaelson

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:30 pm

I don't care where it is made, I just want to buy the best product that fits my needs. I just bought a new truck. Turns out, the best truck that fit my needs was a Japanesse truck. So, I bought it.

The truck was built in Mississippi and the engine was built it Tennessee. Can you believe that they have places in Japan that are named Mississippi and Tennessee?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:37 pm

I've been living in a Foreign trade zone all this time and didn't even know it!

Regards! Michaelson

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:03 pm

Michaelson wrote:I've been living in a Foreign trade zone all this time and didn't even know it!

Regards! Michaelson

You should apply for foreign aid!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:11 pm

I think I already have. I work for the State of Tennessee, and they hand it to me at the end of every month, less import tax fees, I'm sure.

Regards! Michaelson

Serial Hero · Post by **Serial Hero** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:32 pm

You should apply for foreign aid!

I tried, but all I got was Kool-Aid.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:25 pm

Don't feel bad, all I got was Band-Aid!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:34 pm

You lucky guys. They told me to get lost.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:38 pm

Hmm...they told me I didn't even qualify for first-aid...and go stand behind the guy in line for 'lost'.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:39 pm

This reminds me that in the early 1980s, Key West, FL was in a dispute with the federal government over tolls on US1. The tourist were avoiding Key West and their economy was hard hit. The feds refused to eliminate the tolls.

So... Key West declared war against the US. They fired a shot of bread out of a canon across the straight to the next key, then immediately surrendered. They applied for foreign aid and got it.

True story, as near as I remember it.

I thought it was apropos.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:41 pm

Bink, go get Michaelson's cannon, I have an idea...oh, and we're going to need about 50 loaves of bread, and some mayonaisse...

Indiana Jess · Post by **Indiana Jess** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:07 pm

mayonaisse...why did it have to be mayonaisse?

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:08 pm

Don't forget the coffee to dampen the wadding!

Regards! Michaelson

Indy45 · Post by **Indy45** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:36 pm

Platon,

Let me tell ya about What Price Glory.

I wanted a genuine MK VII bag, WPG at one point was out, and I bid on E&@# for one in England, luckily didn't get it when price went north of $60 PLUS shipping...

Then I checked WPG and WoW, Jerry had them back in for $45, with the Shirt and Bag deal for $98. I promptly P@#P@l'ed and Jerry shipped as promptly.

Jerry gently reminded me with a handwritten note in box that I did -not- include postage!! How many companies will ship anyway when you short them $8? (I paid the 8, gratefully!)

Jerry HAS the stuff he posts, and in the quality shown. I'll buy from him again.

And yes, I'd rather see "made in USA", but stop and think about the REASON we're on this INDYGEAR site; how many shots in the Indy MOVIES were actually MADE IN THE USA?? Like 5 percent??

Regards,
Indy45

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:36 pm

Hemingway Jones wrote:This reminds me that in the early 1980s, Key West, FL was in a dispute with the federal government over tolls on US1. The tourist were avoiding Key West and their economy was hard hit. The feds refused to eliminate the tolls.

So... Key West declared war against the US. They fired a shot of bread out of a canon across the straight to the next key, then immediately surrendered. They applied for foreign aid and got it.

True story, as near as I remember it.

I thought it was apropos.

Yup, you have it right, Hem... they named themselves the "Conch Republic" and you can still see the CP flag flying all over Key West!

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:51 am

Michaelson wrote:Don't forget the coffee to dampen the wadding!

Regards! Michaelson

We're going to need something at least five feet tall and thin to use as a ramrod...hey, KEN!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:31 am

Okay, Jerry, I couldn't score the mayo, but will mustard do? It was on sale.

Serial Hero · Post by **Serial Hero** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:17 pm

Yellow or Deli?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:19 pm

Grey Poupon?

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:30 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:Grey Poupon?

Wimpy insipid muck! Colman's English Mustard, now that's the stuff! I bring a tube with me when I come to the States and get a chance to sample your excellent steaks, it's the only thing missing usually. (Last time I was there I saw it in a supermarket, give it a try). If you can'tg et that try Chinese or Japenese powdered mustard that's pretty good too.

That poupon stuff doesn't cut it!

Serial Hero · Post by **Serial Hero** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:46 pm

A tube of mustard?

The only things you put in your mouth that should come in a tube are toothpaste and wasabi.

Well, maybe jelly. That would be cool. A little tube of grape jelly you can carry around with you.

For steak, if I use anything, it’s A-1.

Btw: Colman's is good mustard.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:03 pm

"I'd like my steak in a tube, please."

Come to think of it, sausage is essentially meat in a tube.

Serial Hero · Post by **Serial Hero** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:17 pm

"I'd like my steak in a tube, please."

No knife needed. You just squeeze it right into your mouth.

“Mmmm…now that’s good steak!”

And since it’s in paste form it’s easy on your digestive system.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:18 pm

WOW!!! Ok, friends, I guess we've gone SO far off the rails now, I can't even see the front end from the caboose from all the dirt we're kicking up from the dirt road we've gone down.

Ok, either back to topic, or let's pull the plug on it....

Regards! Michaelson