Was the Raiders hat a hat rotated 90 degrees?

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 5:58 pm

That rounding jack looks like a cheesy tool. Like using a Vise Grip instead of a socket wrench. The curve on the tool is fixed, but the curve of the block changes. You'd have to try and hold it straight. Trying to use it for a Raiders dimensional cut would be difficult or impossible. Placing a flat template on the brim and running a blade around it would be quicker and more even. An iron is a cheesy hat making tool also. Forming the brim on the flange should be done with hot sand bags.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 6:34 pm

Cheesy? Perhaps. I think it's like many hand tools. You have to be able to use them properly, through experience. But, these things, along with the iron was used for many, many years. Nowadays, automated brim cutting is prevalent in mass produced hats. Even these things sometimes mess up, and the brim isn't equal all the way around. They are either rejected or end up in a factory outlet as seconds. A few slip through QC and end up on someone's head. Rounding jacks were never used for dimensional cuts. They are intended only to cut the brim equal all the way around the hat. They worked. Also for a hatter to use a template for brim cutting would require scores of different templates. It is much more economical to use a tool that is adjustable. With the same tool you could cut a brim at 1 1/2 inches, and then turn around and reset the tool, and cut the next brim at say, 2 3/4. Pretty inovative in my book.

Large hat companies like Hatco(Stetson), can even afford a CNC dimensional cutter to do their hats like the Temple. Personally, I prefer my hats made the old timey way. But, that's just me.

Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Fri Dec 27, 2002 1:12 am

This could be a clue. I proposed that the front of Indy's hat was rotated till it's over his right ear. This means the back of his hat would be over his left ear. If I could see the edge of the sweatband, I should be able to see the sweatband seam there. That would prove the theory. First I took a hat marked at 90 degrees and noted in the mirror that that point is actually about a half inch in front of my ear. Then I watched the whole movie, but couldn't get a telling glimpse. (When Indy turns his head to look at the spiders on his back, you see light gliding along the edge of the band, but I couln't really see much detail.) So I looked for evidence on the outside of the hat and found this......At first I thought it was a stray bit of ribbon poking out under middle of the front part of the bow, but it's a big BUMP IN THE FELT that is the CORNER OF A RECTANGLE along the crown/brim junction, and parallel to it, that travels back toward the middle of the bow. That the bump is part of a larger structure is not even noticeable here. You have to watch the movie to believe me. I think this bump is from folded or overlapping leather at the sweat band seam, and it's right where it should be. (This is the getting drunk with the monkey scene.)

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Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Fri Dec 27, 2002 2:06 am

At one point, some time ago, I took an Akubra Federation and used it to demonstrate one theory of why the Raiders fedora, or at least the Cairo fedora, looked the way it did. I ripped out the liner AND the sweatband, removed the ribbon and sewed the ends together so it could be slipped over the hat but not tacked to it. I liberally dusted the hat with stage dust and scrunched it up and twisted it like a dish cloth. The tighter ribbon now held the looser (without the sweatband) hat together, so to speak.

Richard Swales was quoted as saying: "The things they've done to those hats would make you weep." The theory is that with everything removed and the felt being of a thin variety that held the block but had to be reshaped without the benefit of stiffener, and a tight ribbon holding the hat on securely, the Cairo "look" might possibly result. The Fed I used was maybe slightly askew but not rotated 90 degrees. This theory, could apply to the rest of the movie, but to a lesser degree.(minus the wear,sand and heat of the Tunis location). But.....then again........

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Fri Dec 27, 2002 3:16 am

It's not a bad theory. I mentioned it over at Indyfan on December 8th. You've got the Raiders look in the brim and you get bulging sides and probably reverse taper in back. I think one of us is right. ----can you show us different views? Maybe you could set it up normal again, turn it 90 and tell us what you get? Or do I have to buy my own hat to figure this out?

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Fri Dec 27, 2002 9:14 am

I think it is hysterical that there are so many posts about turning a hat 90 degrees.

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Fri Dec 27, 2002 9:54 am

----can you show us different views? Maybe you could set it up normal again, turn it 90 and tell us what you get? Or do I have to buy my own hat to figure this out?

Sorry, but after this test I filled the crown with Bondo. Sadly, the Federation in the picture no longer exists.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Fri Dec 27, 2002 10:13 am

Dakota,

I had the exact same thoughts. When I took the sweatband out of my fed to block it. I put the hat back on and it looked really floppy just like the Cairo scene.

The Cairo scene is, in my opinion, not the only scene where a hat looks like that. The truck scene looks pretty floppy too.

I believe there were a few hats that were missing the liner and sweatband. Hmmmm.....I wonder if doing that it would make the hat more comfortable in hot weather? Perhaps the climate was so hot they removed all that stuff to make the hat more comfortable to wear during filming. Hmmm.....

I might have to do some experiments this summer.

Pyro.

Oklahoma Jones · Post by **Oklahoma Jones** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 5:39 pm

Hey, Pyro, just remember that part of the function of the sweatband, in addition to helping the hat retain its basic shape, is to also be a barrier between the sweat from your hea

d and the felt........sweat and body oils will permeate the hat, and lead to discoloration of the felt...........

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 9:53 am

oklahoma_jones wrote:Hey, Pyro, just remember that part of the function of the sweatband, in addition to helping the hat retain its basic shape, is to also be a barrier between the sweat from your hea d and the felt........sweat and body oils will permeate the hat, and lead to discoloration of the felt...........

This is true. However, keeping in mind of the hat I am trying to mimic, a little discoloration is exactly what it needs.

But thanks for the reminder.

Pyro.