I’m Making a Whip (Finished)

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:30 am

Hi all,

First of all I would like to thank all the whip makers here who freely offer their knowledge and advice. I originally wanted to get a whip from Paul Stenhouse; however with the birth of his daughter he wanted to spend time with her and last I heard all were doing well. But instead of going to one of the other excellent whip makers mentioned within these halls I decided to have a go and try to make my own. I’m in the process of cutting out overlay but things are getting in the way.

Best,
Herr Jones

Indakin · Post by **Indakin** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:04 pm

GL Herr Jones, like learning any new craft , it will take time. I always find making my own gear is more rewarding, i feel more proud to wear it. Just stick with it! Can't wait to see progress pictures.

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:37 pm

HJ, I always marvel at how people make whips.

Can't wait to see pictures when it's finished.

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:13 am

“Greetings Herr Jones” Good luck with your project! Whip making is an art form all its self and I have a great deal of respect for anyone who tries their hand at it, even more so when they get really good at it. Keep us posted and high regards.

Dan

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:51 am

Thanks all for the well wishes.

MorgonKenbur,
it's taking quite a lot of time being new at it.

Canyon,
I can't wait to see pictures either lol, but here are some in progress.

BullWhipBorton,
After starting on this I have a greater respect for all the whip makers and think some don't ask enough for their whip. The pics of Indycraze71's Joe Strain and Robert Duke looks SO intimidating.

Anyway here are some feel free to critique.
The core with steel handle:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... /core1.jpg
1st belly:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... belly1.jpg
2nd belly laces:
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... laces1.jpg

RandallFlagg · Post by **RandallFlagg** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:41 pm

Herr Jones,

Your thread brings a tear to my eye. I started as soon as I joined on this forum and the good folks here are extremely helpful. So far, I've made a ten-foot, ten-plait and an eight-foot, twelve-plait bullwhips. Both explode when cracking sidearm -but have a tendancy to open a vortex in the space-time continuum and make my crackers vanish!

Enjoy it and take your time. I've never had a better hobby and wish I had the time to do it more often.

My next will be an all black 12 foot, 12-plait bullwhip with a brass ring around the handle. Haven't had time lately to begin yet. I'm just finishing a leather toolbag for carrying my leather whipmaking gear to and from work.

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 4:23 am

Herr Jones, So far its looking pretty good. Look forward to seeing more pictures as it progresses.

Dan

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:34 am

RandallFlagg,

The folks around here are helpful, you're right about that. I've followed your threads and I like the texture of your first one - quite different. Then there was you thread about the cracker - very entertaining.

BullWhipBorton,

Thanks for the kind words though that may change

.

Well this is where I'm at:

The second belly: I didn't know how to start the gang cut and messed that up a bit but I was able to adjust for it, I think. There is a short second binding to the left of the junction because there was a weak spot that almost broke so I thought it might help, I guess I didn't go around that scar enough. Next time I'll do a four plait for the second belly.
higher res
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... dBelly.jpg
close up
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... close1.jpg

My laces looked better when I didn't use the strander.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... utting.jpg

The overlay is cut out I just need to skive it, I hope to have it braided this weekend.

Best,
Herr Jones

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:55 am

Herr Jones, What kind of leather are you using? Most whip makers will tell you to learn to cut your lace by hand before using a lace cutter any way, and i agree with that.

The whip makers here can zone in on small details better then I can, but so far the bellys look good to me, they seems seem fairly straight, there is a smooth even taper, i dont seen any noticeable spiraling . If the construction feels solid and tight, and if the weight and balance feels right, I’d say you’re off to a good start. I’ll let you know if I change my mind though

Dan

jabahutt70 · Post by **jabahutt70** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:46 am

Looks good so far Herr Jones~keep up the good work! Did you roll the whip on a hard surface after each belly? It helps to give a smooth & even finish to the work.

Steve.

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:56 am

After getting some advice from a few whip makers I ended up getting/using veg tanned cowhide 3.5-4oz about 1.5mm.

I hope a few other whip makers (or anyone who wishes) would critique me on this thus far and I know the few pics aren't as good as actually handling it but I don't know anyone around the so Cal area. Weight and balance not sure how it's sapose to feel, though if you zoom in you will see many of my mistakes - why am I telling you this

. But I know I need to work on dropping strands.

Best,
Herr Jones

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:48 pm

jabahutt70,

I must have missed your post as I put my previous one in. But yes I did roll the whip after each belly, but probably not as hard as could have. I'll give it one more go before I plait the overlay. The tip (narrow section) didn't want to roll even with some talc spread on it.

Best,
Herr Jones

RandallFlagg · Post by **RandallFlagg** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:16 am

Herr Jones, your stuff looks great.
Can't agree with BullWhipBorton more about the strand cutter. I got one because I was over anxious and wanted to finish the thing to hear how loud it would crack. It worked okay for my first whip (I think) mainly because I used some really thick leather. For thinner stuff, it would fold and come out uneven and I had to straighten it out by hand -which made the job harder and took longer than if I had used a plain ol' knife..

Is whipmaking as addicting to you as it is to me?

I just finshed my leather tool bag and now my Wife wants me to make her a purse. So, I know what you mean when you say, "things are getting in the way." I want to start the black whip right now (even though it's after 2AM), but my Sons are sleeping. The DTs are murder. Time for some whiskey.

Just a couple of questions: Are you using any books for reference? What kind of knives are you using. And if they're not the disposable kind, how are you sharpening them?

Please keep it up, and keep in touch.

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:30 am

Herr Jones,

Hey I just checked out all your pics and first off I must say I am impressed.

Core - how did you attatch the core to the handle? From the picture it looks like you grinded down the steel on the top couple inches of it and attatched the core to it, but I can't tell for sure.

1st belly - this is just a guess, but are you using the whipmaking book by Dennis rush? The first belly looks good from what I can see from the pictures, it doesnt' look like there are any major gaps and the taper looks good.

The seam isn't horribly twisted at least from what I can tell, you asked for something to aim for, and something that is good to aim for is a straight seam. Although it isn't hugely important and really no whip will have a perfectly straight seam ever, it is somthing good to aim for, for consistancy. And in learning to keep the seam straight will also help you work on pulling consistantly with both hands, and also cutting consistancy.

How long is the 1st belly, and how long do you plan on the finished whip being? Also how did you skive the laces on the first belly?

2nd belly - the seam twists a little bit, but it looks much better than the first belly, seam wise. Again I don't see any major gaps so that is really good. The taper looks great down to about the two or three feet, it looks like there is a spot where it beefs up a little bit and then tapers back down, my guess is you had a strand drop there. Part of the reason I don't like doing plaited bellies over 4 plait, but there are ways around the problem, or at least ways to reduce it.

The binding on the transition is very thourough, as long as the binding is solid, you don't need to have so so much, and if you bind it far up the start of the thong, you can end up with a whip that stands up really high off of the handle. If you like it stick with it, it is really all up to how you want it.

the spot you binded where the strand was weak, did it feel weak, or was it actually tearing?

And again with the second belly how long is it, and is it skived on both the bottom sides? Did you use bolsters in between the first and second belly?

That's all I can think of right now. I look forward to seeing the overlay, and your next whip.

can't wait for pics!

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhip

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:01 pm

RandallFlagg,

Whip making is addictive, just as everyone warned it would be.

You know if you make your wife a purse she’ll want you to make another or something else and another. . . . But if you don’t you’ll never hear the end of it. My girl wants me to start on her Legolas costume from “The Lord of the Rings” since I’m done with my whip. So I kinda know how you feel. Hope to hear you start your black whip soon.

I’m using Ron Edward’s and David Morgan’s books also Bernie Wojcicki’s tutorial http://www.em-brand-whips.com/bulltutorial.htm. I’m using X-acto #11 pen knives, no sharpening.

Paul Nolan,

Hey I just checked out all your pics and first off I must say I am impressed.

Thanks.

Handle - ¼” steel rod, tip 1” ground for wear leather.

Core – difficult to explain but it was designed so when it was rolled it had a hollow end so the handle would fit inside - because I didn’t know how it was attached.
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... s/core.gif

References: Edward’s & Morgan’s books, and Wojcicki’s tutorial.

All laces skived on bottom side, overlay skived using a jig I made – a lot easier. No bolsters.

1st Belly - 4 plait, 5 feet.

2nd Belly – 8 plait, 7 feet (wanted 6’6”) I never noticed the spot where “it beefs up a little” thanks for spotting it. I want the final length to be 8 or 9 feet. All measured to end of braid

the spot you binded where the strand was weak, did it feel weak, or was it actually tearing?

A strand or two, can’t remember now, was actually starting to tear so I didn’t pull so hard.

As for now the overlay is plaited and I grossly over estimated the strand length. It is 10’ with about 3’ of lace left over including sore hands. Do I continue to maybe 12’ or stop here and cut off the 3 feet? Any advice?

The wrist loop and knots were fun (these were not tacked on just bound). I got lucky and guessed right on the knob diameter with the lace width I had.

Pic’s will be up when I put on the fall and cracker.

Best,
Herr Jones

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:57 am

Well here it is. I hope I can improve on my next one.

Best,
Herr Jones

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... /whip2.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... /whip3.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... /whip4.jpg

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 4:25 am

Herr Jones,

WOW!!! I must say I am EXTREEMELY IMPRESSED!!! That whip looks really good, and that is your first whip?!

How long did you end up finishing it at? By the way, it is always better to have cut the strands too long, than it is to have cut them too short.

And how long is your fall? It looks really short, it looks like about 22 inches, am I close?

Again Congrats' you did an excellent job.

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:55 am

How did you build up the knob foundation -did you use lead? And how many rooskins did you need for the whip?
Amazing job!!!

jabahutt70 · Post by **jabahutt70** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:58 pm

Herr Jones, or can I call you Jonesy? Just kidding. Gr8 looking job on, as Mr. Nolan put it...."your first whip."

The pics look good, how does she handle?

Steve.

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 5:06 pm

Thanks gents, this was a fun project and I’ve learned that I have a lot to learn in making whips.

Paul Nolan,
I must confess that I made a whip out of 3/8” rope cord to see if it would hold my interest but that is the extent of my experience. I was sneaky in taking pics so that mistakes would be less noticeable. I ended up leaving it at 10’ and will use the extra for something else.

And how long is your fall? It looks really short, it looks like about 22 inches, am I close?

Almost spot on 23” I didn’t know how long to make it but I should have asked. I did a search and didn’t find any info on this.

Again Congrats' you did an excellent job.

Excellent hardly, but thanks

Whiskyman,
The knob foundation is just the end cap, and the wrist loop with shims all bound with sinew – no lead. This used about ¼ of a full cowhide I got 3.5-4oz.

jabahutt70,
Jonsey hmm. . . . There are a few spots about 3-4 feet from the end where it bends more than others from dropping strands, I didn’t know what I was doing even after all my reading. Handling – it’s heavier than I thought it would be. I spent about 5 min just to test and was able to do a few overhead cracks. Now I need to learn how to crack.

Best,
Jonesy err Herr Jones

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:00 pm

Looks like you did a really nice Job Herr Jones. Just by looking at it I never would have guessed it was the first real whip you built. The fall and cracker do look a bit short, you might do better with a longer fall. I wouldn’t go any shorter then 28 inches on the fall. 34 inches is pretty standard length that a lot of whip maker’s use. I don’t know how your cracks sound, but if you make the frayed end of your popper about an inch or so longer, you’ll get a nice sharp pop.

Look forward to hearing more about this bullwhip, and to seeing your next.

Dan

midwestwhips · Post by **midwestwhips** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:51 pm

Paul Nolan,
I must confess that I made a whip out of 3/8” rope cord to see if it would hold my interest but that is the extent of my experience. I was sneaky in taking pics so that mistakes would be less noticeable. I ended up leaving it at 10’ and will use the extra for something else.Quote:
And how long is your fall? It looks really short, it looks like about 22 inches, am I close?
Almost spot on 23” I didn’t know how long to make it but I should have asked. I did a search and didn’t find any info on this.
Quote:
Again Congrats' you did an excellent job.
Excellent hardly, but thanks

Whiskyman,
The knob foundation is just the end cap, and the wrist loop with shims all bound with sinew – no lead. This used about ¼ of a full cowhide I got 3.5-4oz.

jabahutt70,
Jonsey hmm. . . . There are a few spots about 3-4 feet from the end where it bends more than others from dropping strands, I didn’t know what I was doing even after all my reading. Handling – it’s heavier than I thought it would be. I spent about 5 min just to test and was able to do a few overhead cracks. Now I need to learn how to crack.

Best,
Jonesy err Herr Jones

Herr Jones,

Again, I will say I am impressed. Personally I don't really count the rope cord whip, this is a completely different project than that was I am sure.

Even though you took the pics a certain way on purpose, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to see highlights of the things that you thought were mistakes, I think everyone here could learn from them, and it could incite some interesting discussion.

In fact, the other night I was thinking it might be neat to have a post of whip "mistakes" so that everyone can see how comon some mistakes are, and it may be fun not to tell anyone where they are, and to see if the average whip enthusiasts can spot them. Also, just to get discussion going about it, and it would help everyone to become more observant with the ability of what to look for. Just a thought...

With the extra lace you have, there are plenty of things you can use it for, you could make keychains, or use them to tie on a knot, if you get creative you can find all sorts of uses for your scraps.

23" I was so close, and that is really short, especially for a 10 foot whip. The only time I ever use a 24" fall is on a 4 foot whip, and even then it's pretty rare I put one on a 4 footer. Generally around 36 inches is pretty good all around. I tend to put them on a bit long on my whips that way if someone has a preferred length they can cut it down.

In my perfect world all the knots would be built up with leather, but unfortunately sometimes you need the lead, and on a long Indy style whip like this It would help to have some weight in the butt end to balence it out. If it feels a bit thong heavy, then that is why.

With the more bendy parts where you were dropping strands, that is a tricky thing to learn. And you will find to get it tight, it would really be helpful if you had another set of hands. did you pull the dropped strands tight again about an inch or so after they were dropped, right before the other strands get pulled tight to lock it in?

Also, it will really help to learn how to crack consistantly and be able to feel what makes a good whip, it will really help with the whipmaking to know how you want the finished whip to react.

Again, Excellent job on your first whip, it looks way better than my first ones ever did. Congrats!

Regards,

Paul Nolan
MidWestWhips

PS-Dan, I didn't even notice how short the popper fluff was until you said something, as the aussies say, "good on ya'"

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:46 am

Mr. Nolan,

I will post pics of my mistakes once I clean up the whip a bit. I'm going to repost the above pics with better lighting and for the size requirement.

BTW, thanks for posting pics of the b&w 24 plait you're working on.

BullWhipBorton,

That cracker is from my rope whip and it has a deeper tone to it but I got it to pop a few times but then I had RandallFlagg's problem of the "disappearing cracker."

Best,
Herr Jones

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:23 pm

Pauls not kidding Herr,
Thats an amazing first whip!
Ive been making them for a few years, and thats millions of times better than anything Ive ever made. When i see pictures like this it uasualy puts me into one of thoes why bother state of minds.
Adam

The real Henry · Post by **The real Henry** » Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:36 pm

! That one looks just great! The taper, the thickness and the color- no joke man, this was really the type of whip I always was after!

You wouldn't sell it would you?

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:48 am

Thanks Paul, You brought up some really great points also. It is one thing to know how to plait leather but an entirely different thing to know how to make a good whip. So its essential to know why it works the way it works and understand the physics behind a whip, the importance of balance, weight distribution, the way the thong lays out on a throw. A person can follow directions step-by-step from a book, however; it’s nearly impossible to really get the idea with out actually seeing, holding and using a high quality whip first hand and having that basic knowledge of how to crack them.
Secondly, I think that the suggestion of a topic just to showcase mistakes made in whip making would be a really great idea. I am sure that not only would it be helpful to the whip makers (both new and well seasoned) who frequent the COW, but also to those who are interested in knowing what to look out for when purchasing whip. Lets face it there are some fantastic whips being made by really talented and ethical whip makers. They try there hardest to make the best possible product they can, but mistakes can happen even under the best of circumstances. On the other hand there are those making whips that for one reason or another, whether intentionally or not are making whips that are selling for hundreds of dollars that may look good at first glance but when you look closer and really inspect them they are a mess. I consider myself to have good whip sense and a sharp eye for detail but I also believe that there is always something new to learn and I would welcome a chance to take a look at some problem areas and common mistakes that are made and try my hand at picking them out. Anyway, just my two cents.

Herr Jones, Aside from actually purchasing a well made whip for yourself, You might want to try to locate another other whip maker or enthusiast near you or even visit a shop that sell good whips (If your lucky enough to have one locally). It will give you a better idea of how whips in general are supposed to feel, the ways they differ from one another and how they are alike and the importance of the things mentioned above like balance and weight, etc. As for Poppers, I make most of my standard poppers out of twisted nylon upholstery thread. The thread is easy to find at most fabric stores and its cheep. Basically it’s just a thin bonded nylon thread but it’s very strong and frays out quite nicely. They are simple to make, light weight and produce a nice crisp clean sounding crack. Here is a photo for comparison and scale.

The top popper is the type that i make, the middle is from David Morgan and bottom is from The Northern Whip Co.

Dan

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:20 am

Mola Ram,
Like I said in the "Time needed to make a whip"
viewtopic.php?t=15933 this took me about 45 hrs probably more. I would hope that seeing what I was able to do in the amount of time it took it'll put you in the I can do that state of minds.

The real Henry,
It may look ok but like BullWhipBorton and others have said it may not be quality as I don't know what/how it should be. This is of cowhide and if that is what you are looking for I would suggest either Adam Winrich or Paul Stenhouse I know they make cowhide whips not sure who else. But no not for sale sorry.

BullWhipBorton,

A person can follow directions step-by-step from a book, however; it’s nearly impossible to really get the idea with out actually seeing, holding and using a high quality whip first hand and having that basic knowledge of how to crack them.

I understand and agree with you.

Here are the mistakes Paul Nolan asked to see and leave it open for the punches.

Best,
Herr jones

RandallFlagg · Post by **RandallFlagg** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:42 pm

Reviving an old thread here.
Those mistakes are very forgivable considering it's your first. My mistakes as far as my first were from simple impatience.

I usually have to actually write down the plaiting patterns while I'm working so I don't forget, "Over two or under two? Hmmmm."

How does it crack?

Paul_Stenhouse · Post by **Paul_Stenhouse** » Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:38 am

Herr Jones,

Nicely done for a first effort. You should have seen the pieces of @#$% I first made. Fortunately, they've all been gone for some time.

I see the mistakes in what you made, but does it really matter what the rest of us think? As long as your happy, then bugger all what we say! (I'm starting to pick up kiwi slang)

One question: the portion in the belly that you built up with waxed thread, below the handle/thong transition. Can you feel that bit in the overlay?

One thing I would suggest for the fall hitches is to tie them around a thinner part of the fall (about halfway down), and the pull the fall through. Don't forget to tuck your end piece in under the fall if you do it that way. Then, using a pair of pliers with dull teeth, like duckbills, sequently pull each strand tight just once. If you can deform the knot with your fingers when you are finished, it's not tight enough.

45 hours? ####! [insert favorite swear]
I would like to see a shot directly overhead, if you can swing it.

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Fri Apr 07, 2006 3:19 pm

RandallFlagg,

If that’s what you were able to make from being impatient, I can only imagine what you’d be able to make with a little patience. I'm ok with plaiting patterns it’s dropping strands that stop me cold – bloody heck, how do I do this?

I did a forward crack twice one loud not powering them, some sidearm and overheads cracks, but I don’t crack so much because my dog shivers from being scared by it. I’m going to try some of BullWhipBorton’s advice on poppers.

Paul Stenhouse,

Thank you for the kind words. The overlay is based on a pic of one of your whips that I scaled to see if the width of my strands were about right.

I was hoping to have gotten more, you should have done this. . . or try it this way, as Dan did, I don’t mind the criticism. But for me standing outside the whip makers and users circle it does matter as all you “buggers” (I laughed and imagined you saying it with a bit of accent) are masters, experts, and enthusiasts.

That portion was for a strand starting to tear and I kept it the same diameter (I think one layer of artificial sinew), can’t feel it in the overlay.

I read your advice on fall hitches somewhere also and yeah that works right. 45hrs - most likely more. Can you explain,

I would like to see a shot directly overhead, if you can swing it.

I don’t get what you’re asking me.

BTW I like using your slim knot for tying on poppers.

Paul Nolan,

I measured the stock I cut the first fall from and I have to correct myself as you were exactly right it was/is 22 inches, you know your stuff.

Best,
Herr Jones

Paul_Stenhouse · Post by **Paul_Stenhouse** » Sun Apr 09, 2006 4:03 am

Hi Herr Jones,

The overhead shot I was referring to was to lay the whip down on any old surface and have a picture of it straight down on to it. That's the litmus test for taper when looking at pictures...although some older cameras came make a whip look lumpy due to pixelation. You camera has good resolution so it shouldn't be an issue.

The slim knot for crackers, I accidentally stumbled upon. I showed it David because he wanted to know how Terry Jacka did it on the whips he sent him. David's now doing it on his whips, but he left out a step in his book about seating it that I do, and I've not had one come off when I do it.

So, just an overhead picture looking straight down is what I'm after. So, how did you strands widths compare to what I do?

Best Regards,

Paul Stenhouse

PS> the best thing about making a whip is that you can beat it to death, have destructive fun with it,

and always make another, now that you know how!

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:38 am

Hi Paul,

PS> the best thing about making a whip is that you can beat it to death, have destructive fun with it, and always make another, now that you know how!

One of my goals from this whip was to learn from it and I have since replaited the last 5 feet because I missed a stand (in the last pic with the hitch), then I replaited the last maybe 3 feet twice because I wanted to drop strands better. So the strands in the last few feet don't sit as nicely as they did when I finished it the frist time. I got a little tip from Adam Winrich's whip pic viewtopic.php?p=224693&highlight=#224693. I'll get an overhead pic as soon as I can.

This is how I scaled your whip for reference and my strands were fairly close. Large square = 1 inch. I don't know the actual size it was just for reference.

Best,
Herr Jones

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... s/pic2.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ ... s/pic3.jpg