New (old) Herbert Johnson (Image Heavy)

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:11 pm

Well, apologies for the suspense! I was in late from work, my camera started acting up, the light in room was wrong, I got blurry pics, overbright pics, wonky pics, then had to leave the house!

So, below are the first pics of my new Fedora, apparently made using the rediscovered Raiders block and using the original felt supplier.

First a small disclaimer - I still know very little about how these hats 'ought' to look, so if some of my comments don't make sense, chalk it up to inexperience. My initial impressions of the hat are that it is very well made, but doesn't look quite how I was expecting it to - nevertheless I leave it to YOU the experts to decide amongst yourselves what is wrong and what is right - either way, this is my first Fedora and I'm rather quite chuffed with it all the same. As such, I promise I won't take offense at any criticisms and look forward to your advice as to how I can change or improve the hat as necessary.

Please bear in mind these pics are of the hat AS IS - straight out of the box - I haven't tweaked or shaped the hat in any way, with the exception of the 'popped' crown photos. If there are any angles or pics you would like to see, measurements you would like me to make, let me know, and I'll try my best to accomodate.

You can view any of these at full size by removing the .sized portion of the URL.

Popped crown

Taking pictures is hard work

There are many more pictures to be seen here

http://firm.fussake.com/gallery/Indy-Hat

Questions, comments, requests? Fire away!

*EDIT* Where I've been sat wearing it as I type, the brim has started to turn of it's own accord - I am becoming happier with the hat

indyguy · Post by **indyguy** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:19 pm

A little tweaking with the brim and making the crown have a little more rounded camel humps it should be looking good, the felt does look floppier like the original felt.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:25 pm

The Aviator's HJ contact described this block as "Totally flat sided", which I thought meant stove pipe. There's a lot of front and back taper here.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:25 pm

I won't claim to be a Hat expert but, I think it's the same hat block that they used for my HJ ( That I boaght around a year ago). I don't think it's the same hat block from the 80's movie ( Raiders).

What are the measurmenst of the crown ( open )?
What are the measurmenst of the brim Front , back and sides ?
How easy it to shape it?

I would pop over to pagey how to bash a hat.
http://eaglesnest.goblinjournals.com/pagey.html

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:26 pm

indyguy wrote:A little tweaking with the brim and making the crown have a little more rounded camel humps it should be looking good, the felt does look floppier like the original felt.

The felt feels stiffer than I was expecting, although to be honest I wasn't exactly sure what to expect..

Will the hat soften naturally over time?

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:31 pm

jpenman wrote:I won't claim to be a Hat expert but, I think it's the same hat block that they used for my HJ ( That I boaght around a year ago). I don't think it's the same hat block from the 80's movie ( Raiders).

What are the measurmenst of the crown ( open )?
What are the measurmenst of the brim Front , back and sides ?
How easy it to shape it?

Okay, hope I'm doing this right.....

Open crown - 5 1/2"
Front brim - 2 3/4"
Sides - 2 1/2 "
Back - 2 3/4"

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:31 pm

The crown looks tall enough. The side shot popped out looks a lttle to too tapered to be the block I was expecting, but I could be wrong there. The ribbon is too light. Maybe Steve and Marc bought out the supplier and now HJ can't get the right kind. That would be a hoot. You might try Pagey's page on shaping and redo it a bit. The side dents don't need to be that far back and the top dent could be a bit deeper and less spread out. The felt could stand a little more "tobacco" tint to it, but it's not bad. Would look better with the contrast of a darker ribbon. Just my immediate thoughts.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:39 pm

The bow cinch has what looks like a non-Indy 2-part seam- maybe not. The cinch is too narrow. Too much of a shark fin in the back of the bow. Why are they posting pics from Raiders in their ad, and not even bothering to get something as completely visible as the bow right? How much effort could they have put into the body if they didn't even consider the bow? If they sent me this hat, after all the hype, I'd ask for my money back, and let them know they are clueless. My $12 Burlington Tonak has that much front and back taper.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:56 pm

Hmmm...I to be totally honest the bash is pretty bad. However, I think the hat has potential IMO. Certainly more potential than the bash shows.

Oklahoma Jones · Post by **Oklahoma Jones** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:10 pm

IMO, right now the front bashes look like they are to far back(looking like a LC hat towards the end of the film), but I have to say I like the look of the ribbon. As stated, a bit of tweaking, and I think you have a winner there

Antone · Post by **Antone** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:19 pm

First off: congratulations Dekker and thanks for posting so many pics!

One quick suggestion that I think would give the hat a lot more of an Indy look with minimal work: flip the brim up on the sides and back. That alone would make it look much better (to me at least...)

To my eye it does look like the crown is a bit taller and has less taper on the sides than the previous HJs. The front and back do look a bit more tapered than I would have thought for the Raiders hat, but it's hard to say without a totally accurate Raiders bash; it may just be an optical delusion. If it were my hat, I'd personally prefer a slightly wider brim, but my personal taste.

I also concur that a darker ribbon would improve the look quite a bit; it is a bit funny that HJ doesn't actually use the HJ ribbon anymore while the ABs do.

If you want a more authentic Raiders look, I'd also second the suggestion that you re-do the bash according the Pagey method. But if you're happy with it, it's fine as is; I've certainly seen people do worse in terms of their first Raiders hat.

If you flip the brim up or do a rebash please post a couple more pics. Meanwhile, enjoy. As far as stiffness goes, I've had other hats that were pretty stiff out of the box but got a little softer over time. I wouldn't worry about that too much.

Antone

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:35 pm

Dekker,

Glad you finally got your hat. I think a change of the ribbon would be all you need to really make the it look more Indy like. Right now it just looks like a really nice Fedora.

I wish my first Indy hat would have been that nice.

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:40 pm

Thanks for the comments so far folks!

I've been sat here having a little fiddle with the hat (WORK IN PROGRESS!

) and a read of Pagey's excellent guide, and it's starting to look a little better. Last pics for tonight I'm afraid - it's 11pm and I've only just eaten!

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:16 pm

Hey, The Aviator, if you are around... Please refer your HJ contact to this thread. viewtopic.php?t=12647&start=0 He keeps saying he's consulting with R. Swales, which may be THE PROBLEM. Your HJ contact has already admitted that "Sadly, I have been misled' by his employer, as to the Raiders era authenticity of the modern Poet.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:33 pm

Hmm. Looks very similiar to this HJ from Todd.

And, I think this is the HJ block shape that they need to find. This one is vintage HJ. Less taper, less dome.

The radius on top of the so called new HJ block is like the Akubra Federation. That is what it looks like to me. Fedora

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:18 am

I think you are right on with that Steve. My Herbert Johnson fedora is from Todd , and looks just like that one( minus the bash).

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:27 am

Front brim - 2 3/4"
Sides - 2 1/2 "
Back - 2 3/4"

That sounds like the LC brim dimensions. Although, earlier reports from Mr. Swales cited this as the Raiders dimensions, while later ones refuted it. I would love to see this new hat with a Pagey style job. Fedora

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:17 am

Nice hat box....

Otherwise: good to see that the bow is not as ugly as on most modern HJs I've seen. Not screen accurate, but classy nontheless.

The liner is nice too, but I cannot see how this could be made on the same block as the beloved Raiders. LC - quite possible, but not Raiders.

How's the sweatband? - Like a piece of cardboard or like a brand new lamb skin from Wested? I'd really like to see how this hat is put together in person... Is the liner stitched in?

Please report.

Thanks,

Marc

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:51 am

Marc wrote: How's the sweatband? - Like a piece of cardboard or like a brand new lamb skin from Wested? I'd really like to see how this hat is put together in person... Is the liner stitched in?

The sweatband is somewhere in-between, I think. I had to pack it a little as I'd slightly overestimated on size, and it felt fairly flexible as I did so. I don't really notice the bamd when it's on so it's soft enough. I don't have access to the hat right now (at work) but if I recall correctly the liner is stitched. I'll double check when I get home.

I cannot see how this could be made on the same block as the beloved Raiders. LC - quite possible, but not Raiders.

Frankly, I'll take either

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:20 am

I just looked at the pics again, and the felt seems to be nicer than the last stuff they used. Does the brim snap up? It is hard to tell whether they flanged the brim. I would love to play with one to see what it could yield. Looks like a nicer hat than some of the later HJs. Fedora

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:34 am

Fedora wrote:I just looked at the pics again, and the felt seems to be nicer than the last stuff they used. Does the brim snap up? It is hard to tell whether they flanged the brim. I would love to play with one to see what it could yield. Looks like a nicer hat than some of the later HJs. Fedora

Here's the brim as it was when it arrived.

As I sat writing this thread with the hat on, the back of the brim lifted a bit, so I'm sure it must have been flanged at some point. I think the 'bumps' over the ear are an indication of how it must have been shaped...although I'm straying dangerously into trying to sound like I know what I'm talking about here...

I gave the back a tweak or two while I was reading through the Pagey guide and the back now sits up quite nicely. The brim did tend to snap up while I was shaping the hat. I'll get some pics of it as it is now, when I get home.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:56 am

First off, congratulations on recieving your HJ. Here are my thoughts:

The ribbon on that hat appears to be almost the same color as the felt itself. Were I you, I would order a new ribbon for it. I would suggest talking to Fedora about a replacement ribbon/bow. His is a dark, dark brown, but looks black to the naked eye. I also believe Todd's Costumes sells replacement ribbons, but I'd honestly talk to Fedora first.

Here's something you can do right now. Flip the back of the brim up. When/if the felt gives you trouble, and will not hold its shape, go out and get a bottle of felt stiffener, and apply some to the back of the brim only. You want the edge of the brim to curl up slightly, that's all; nothing terribly dramatic. Just an upward curl at the edge of the brim. Let it sit and dry, and once it's dry, put the hat on, and turn it (on your head) an inch to half inch to your right. That will give the front of the brim some Indy-esque distortion (that's what it does for me, anyway).

The crown seems tapered to me, but not so badly as to resemble the ToD cockpit scene, so don't panic.

What it all boils down to is .. what I would do is, see about getting the hat re-blocked once. Have the liner sewn in instead of hot glued, and have the sweat re attatched in a different manner. That ought to last ya.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:37 am

I'm sorry but I just have to say this , even if I get my head taken off. Dekker send that hat back to them , it's just not worth what you paid for it. It is the ugliest fedora that I ever seen. It's not a dig on you my friend , it's just the truth about that hat. I thinkothers are thinking th same thing but don't wan't to hurt your fealings.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:52 am

I don't think the hat looks all *that* bad. Could use some work, yeah sure. As has been said, I think there is potential there, if tweaked a little.

Jpenman wrote:That is the ugliest fedora I ever seen.

J-Pen, you haven't seen the worst the internet has to offer.

See my thread here. Then you'll say: "That hat doesn't look so bad!"

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:53 am

Welcome to the wonderful world of double posting.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:56 am

If that's the new offering, I think I prefer the old offering

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:56 am

I have to agree with Strider on this topic.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:01 am

Strider the pics in that post of your's didn't show. Ok maybe not the worst but in the same group as the low end fedora like those ( and for the high end price tag ) ugly.

wiskeyman , right on with that one. That is a nice looking fedora ( much , much better).

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:12 am

I think the biggest problem with the new HJ is the guy that bashed it. He didn't have the silghtest idea of what he was doing.

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:20 am

Jpennman, no offence taken sir. When I opened the box, I knew what I saw wasn't going to look good in the eyes of a lot of people here.

In a many ways, I see this hat as being like 'Sloth' from 'The Goonies'. While we don't know how Sloth looked when he was born, we do know that he was dropped at least twice by his careless mother. A tragedy to be sure, compounded when she turned away from Sloth, to her less offensive looking children. So Sloth was locked away out of sight and forgotten about.

However, one little boy was able to see past Sloth's grotesque appearance and with a little loving (and rebashing), he was able to become the hero we know and love today. (Aww

)

So, er...basically as it's my first Fedora, I doubt I'll be sending it back. I didn't have any particular expectations, because I haven't spent the last ten years looking for 'THE PERFECT FEDORA'. I'm disappointed that I wasn't able to show you guys something special, but I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:25 am

I have a feeling that after constant wearing and handling, this will end up becoming one of the best looking fedora's in the community.

Sort of like Strider's jacket distressing fiasco......it started out a train wreck, but with work and proper application, it's one of the nicest looking distressed jackets on the site (not my cup of tea, but I give credit where credit is due.

)

True, it wasn't the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow everyone keeps looking for from HJ, but it answered the question everyone has been asking since they said they were doing this. Thank you!

Personally I'm tickled to death for you, Dekker! First fedora, and it's an HJ! Just keep working it and wearing it. I'm looking forward to seeing it again in a few months after it's taken on YOUR personality. It will, you know?

I've been heavily involved with this hobby since 1981. I have NEVER owned an HJ, so you're a quantum leap ahead of ME, my friend!

Regards! Michaelson

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:51 am

Gosh whiskyman, your hat looks exactly like mine!

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 11:59 am

I have a feeling that after constant wearing and handling, this will end up becoming one of the best looking fedora's in the community.

That's what I was thinking too. It surely has alot of potential and seeing as it hasn't even been touched out of the box, I'd say we have a long way to go to actually give it a thorough and honest review. Heck, my Optimo was scary out of the box. Stiff brim with a rough bash. Now, after years of wear, I love it and think it's perfect.

An Indy fedora needs tough love freinds. Tough love.

Although the block may not be the one that Fedora has shown us, it's definitely a step in the right direction, I think. Too bad that Dekker doesn't have anything else to compare it to. That's what I'm waiting for is an experienced review. Then the real discussions can begin.

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:19 pm

whipwarrior wrote:Gosh whiskyman, your hat looks exactly like mine!

Oh, it's not mine - those are the photos from Indyfedora.com

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:26 pm

Michaelson wrote:I have a feeling that after constant wearing and handling, this will end up becoming one of the best looking fedora's in the community.

And if it doesn't, I think you should let Fedora get his hands on it. (as he said he would like to) I'm sure he would give it a good going over and tell us what he though of the new HJ or if he thought it was new at all. Then would give it a nice rebash if you wanted.

The wrinklyness of the brim kind of bothers me and the divit on each side of it. Was that interior shot of the liner and sweatband before or after you padded it? (I think I understood you stuffed it a bit as it was too big?) The sweatband looks like how my fed deluxe looked when I padded it, but it was smooth and unwrinkled before I did that.

Puppetboy · Post by **Puppetboy** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:31 pm

My $.02 is that the block is definitely not the Poet block. The tall dome reminds me of the pics of HF's hat on the "making of..." DVD where he's in the snake pit moving snakes and his hat's popped out. That hat looked (surprisingly) very domed on the top. Your most recent pictures do look much better on the profile.

Oddly, the block shape looks very much like the block I arrived at after months of measuring, blocking, measuring, blocking... I do think the raiders block had that odd front slope, making the top of the hat much more round and less oval. It also matches the front slope of the hat worn by the grey nazi.

It's also possible that the felt didn't retain the block shape well, especially in the back. I wouldn't discount that block shape yet...

Keep at the styling! I agree there is much potential there to come out with a great looking hat.

How does the ribbon look in natural light? Does it look as light as it does in the flash photos? How about some natural light pics without flash?

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:39 pm

Puppetboy wrote:How does the ribbon look in natural light? Does it look as light as it does in the flash photos? How about some natural light pics without flash?

I was wondering that too. Maybe it's just the camer/lighting that's causing it to look light. How many times have we seen things change color dramaticly in pictures? Make sure to use a tripod or solid/steady surface so they'll still be sharp.

Dekker · Post by **Dekker** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:43 pm

IndyDoc wrote:Was that interior shot of the liner and sweatband before or after you padded it? (I think I understood you stuffed it a bit as it was too big?) The sweatband looks like how my fed deluxe looked when I padded it, but it was smooth and unwrinkled before I did that.

After - and to be honest I did it a bit haphazardly. The sweatband was very smooth before I got my meat hooks on it. I'm sure I'll go back to it and make sure the padding is in properly.

Puppetboy wrote:How does the ribbon look in natural light? Does it look as light as it does in the flash photos? How about some natural light pics without flash?

The pics are rather unforgiving. While the ribbon isn't as black looking as some of the AB's I've seen photos of, it's still fairly dark. I've yet to get a chance to look at the hat outside in some daylight. I'll get some this weekend, hopefully.

Naturally though, I am pinning my hopes on some of my other gear that is on order (Web belt, gun belt, holster, bagstrap, whip holder, pre-distressed gloves

) to really bring out the character of the hat...

G-MANN · Post by **G-MANN** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:49 pm

Does anybody here know if this is the same HJ that TODD'S Costume is selling at this time?

VP · Post by VP » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:10 pm

whiskyman wrote:If that's the new offering, I think I prefer the old offering

That's one of Pagey's HJs, btw.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:10 pm

Same hat and (except the white liner) materials, just a different block. Or so I think.

I'd also like to point out that there is a pretty decent shot of the ribbon where it's not so light in color in his link. Keep in mind also that the original ribbons were not as dark as people thought. The lighting and angles play a dramatic part in the tones of the ribbon. Even though the below is most likely a LC hat, it illustrates what I'm talkin about.

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:53 pm

jpenman wrote: I would pop over to pagey how to bash a hat.
http://eaglesnest.goblinjournals.com/pagey.html

Just take his tutorial with a grain of salt as his "final" pic has been edited to give the desired look:

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:08 pm

Anyone know if he intentionally moved his ribbon up so close to the front pinch?

prairiejones · Post by **prairiejones** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:47 pm

Anyone know if he intentionally moved his ribbon up so close to the front pinch?

He just turned his hats more than others do.

Just take his tutorial with a grain of salt as his "final" pic has been edited to give the desired look

Not sure what you mean. He is just catching the proper angle to expose the humps. I think that his is the definitive tutorial.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:36 pm

I think that this is the definitive tutorial.

One of many over the years.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 4:57 pm

I think what fedoraman is saying is that pageys' pic is pasted together
( photoshop).

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 5:54 pm

Fedoraman wrote:
jpenman wrote: I would pop over to pagey how to bash a hat.
http://eaglesnest.goblinjournals.com/pagey.html
Just take his tutorial with a grain of salt as his "final" pic has been edited to give the desired look

And why do you say that?

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:01 pm

Fedoraman wrote:[Just take his tutorial with a grain of salt as his "final" pic has been edited to give the desired look:

I'm not sure I understand. As far as I know he simply bashed the hat, put it on his head and took the pic.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:15 pm

Yeah, I don't see why he would edit it, (besides to exagerate his 1337 hat skillz) but I don't think he would do that.

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:56 pm

jpenman wrote:I think what fedoraman is saying is that pageys' pic is pasted together
( photoshop).

Precisely.

New (old) Herbert Johnson (Image Heavy)

New (old) Herbert Johnson (Image Heavy)

cool

hat

Re: cool

Re: hat

hat

Hat

hat

Re: hat

hat

Re: hat

Re: hat

Re: hat