Real or Replica?

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:48 pm

So, I can get a real Enfield for about a third of the price of that 'blowback' cap-firing one Mazurin makes, but I have to knuckle down and get an F.A.C. (Firearms Aquisition Certificate), which involves a class and buying a text and paying for a test and such... plus with the looming election, it looks like a new dark age for everyone's rights and freedoms here in Canada.

So, I dunno... should I get a potentially lethal and probably restricted pistol or a substantially more expensive glorified cap gun?

What would you non-Americans do? What about you heavily regulated Americans?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:55 pm

Buy the gun and tons of ammo and go on a shooting spree!!!!

Or not.

If it's cheaper in the long run to get the real deal, I'd go for the real thing. But then again, if you plan on wearing it for the prop value, it may be easier in the long haul to go for the replica. I'd enjoy having the real deal for the history of the piece alone, but that's me.

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 4:59 pm

Snake, is it possible to obtain a deactivated version of the Enfield? If you could, you'd have the best of both worlds....unless you main point is something that DOES shoot.

Regards! Michaelson

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:16 pm

A deactivated one would pretty much serve as a paperweight and wouldn't be any less expensive or be more legal (see, that's how stupid our laws are) than a firing one.

This is the replica in action: http://www.modelguns.co.uk/Videos/Enfield.wmv

Ain't that the ginchiest?

I'm coming at it from a filmmaking perpective, so, ideally, it should go 'bang!' or have some sort of visible muzzle 'action'. A flash or spark or smoke, or something. Anything but a flag that pops out the end where you have to read the 'bang!' part. Readin's for chumps.

I dunno if I can justify buying a 'cap' gun that costs up in the Aldens price range.

They're not really caps, they're reloadable brass dummy shells. They used to be called 'power caps' back in the 80's.

I dunno - this is a tough one. The having a 'real piece of history' is a good angle too, Bink.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:55 pm

I have to agree with Bink. Jump through the government hoops and own a piece of history. IMHO opinion its worth it. Personally I can't justify buying a high class cap gun that cost more than the real thing.

Altern · Post by **Altern** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:13 pm

France probably have one of the most regulated situation about weapons (not only firearms btw, everything, even maze or stuff), so i share your pain.

You have basically 5 possibilities, all good and depending of your needs :

- you don't care about money, want the closest possible thing to the real gun and will probably use it in an Indiana Jones fan movie ?

Well go for a ModelGun or a "blank firing" replica

Will cost ya ~200$, maybe less for the "blank firing"

- you got a tight budget, but still want an accurate gun which could be used for a fan movie (with some FX added at the editing). Go for an AirSoft gun then.

- you running low on cash, are not willing to shoot any fan movies, just want a nice prop to add to your Gear... go for the resin replica ! (or metal replica...)

- you got a tight budget, you don't really need a gun for a fan movie (or at least, don't need to see a gun shoots). Still, you want the Webley, a real piece of history ? Go for a deactivated gun (if your laws allow that...)

- you got a good budget, you are ready to go through tons of #### to get the licence and stuff to own a gun and use it in a movie. Well, get a real, 100% functioning Webley.

Please, note that i wouldn't do anything illegal if i were you. That would bring you in a WORLD of troubles, and that simply wouldn't be worth it.

I'm myself a HUGE ww2 fan and i began some years ago to collect some of the WWII weapons i like best (us, uk, french and german).
At the beginning, i wanted real guns. But my first weapon was a k98 mauser rifle and i went through #### to get a licence to use it. And when you know that anyway, you got to change the caliber (french law eh eh...

) and that the ammo cost A LOT ! Well it's just not worth it...
So i'm now just collecting deactivated weapons when i can find some or, ultimately, when they're not available anymore (some of them were really underproduced... like the german Stg44), i buy a ModelGun...

But, speaking of illegal, i know some ww2 weapons lovers who have EVERY single one of their items deactivated... well at least as long as you don't know how to change a few things to reactivate it.
Takes like 5 minutes...

But shhhhh :p

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:24 pm

Altern wrote:I'm myself a HUGE ww2 fan and i began some years ago to collect some of the WWII weapons i like best (us, uk, french and german).
At the beginning, i wanted real guns. But my first weapon was a k98 mauser rifle and i went through #### to get a licence to use it. And when you know that anyway, you got to change the caliber (french law eh eh... ) and that the ammo cost A LOT ! Well it's just not worth it...

Wow, you have to change the caliber!? What do you have to change it too?

Altern · Post by **Altern** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:53 am

Every "military" caliber and ammo is forbidden, regardless of how old it is.

For my k98, i had to change it into a civilian caliber : either 8x60S, 8x64S, 7x64S (original one being 8x57S)

Automatic and military weapons are fordbidden here, so everytime you want to own and shoot with a historical weapon, you have to change the caliber. Yes it's stupid as most of the time, the new civilian caliber is more powerful than the old military version.

i bought mine there years ago (beware: it's in french !) : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nolasco/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nolasco/catalog ... 98_kar.htm

For those who understand french, our weapon classification is here : http://www.fusil-calais.com/legal/legal_01_fr.asp

We got 8 classes for weapons.

Last Crusader · Post by **Last Crusader** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:30 am

As far as I have heard at least the Britains have a law that says that you can have guns with caliber from before 1919 without permission. They are called "Class 7" guns or something. But you can keep them at home only. Correct me if I´m wrong.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:22 am

Altern wrote:Every "military" caliber and ammo is forbidden, regardless of how old it is.

For my k98, i had to change it into a civilian caliber : either 8x60S, 8x64S, 7x64S (original one being 8x57S)

Automatic and military weapons are fordbidden here, so everytime you want to own and shoot with a historical weapon, you have to change the caliber. Yes it's stupid as most of the time, the new civilian caliber is more powerful than the old military version.

i bought mine there years ago (beware: it's in french !) : http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nolasco/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/nolasco/catalog ... 98_kar.htm

For those who understand french, our weapon classification is here : http://www.fusil-calais.com/legal/legal_01_fr.asp

We got 8 classes for weapons.

Wow, that has to be one of the dumbest laws I've ever seen. The only difference between the 8x57 and the other calibers you've listed is a few mm. It makes no sense at all.

The real Henry · Post by **The real Henry** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:59 am

Sorry it's maybe the wrong thread, but does anyone know where I can get a softair version of the Mauser k98 or any other WWII or pre-WWII rifle?

Glurrk · Post by **Glurrk** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:31 pm

Snakewhip_Sable wrote:I'm coming at it from a filmmaking perpective, so, ideally, it should go 'bang!' or have some sort of visible muzzle 'action'. A flash or spark or smoke, or something.

Why not simply add a digital flash when in postproduction?

The flash was added digitally in Photoshop, along with the reflection in his sunglasses. The gun itself is a cap gun, so there is a little bit of real smoke.

Feraud · Post by **Feraud** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:37 pm

Snakewhip_Sable wrote:What would you non-Americans do? What about you heavily regulated Americans?

Living in New York, I consider myself a heavily regulated American. My advice is to take the time to acquire the real thing. Also, let your local politicians know that as a law abiding citizen you expect them to work for you! Not vice-versa.

Glurrk · Post by **Glurrk** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 12:57 pm

Snakewhip_Sable wrote:it should go 'bang!' or have some sort of visible muzzle 'action'.

Here's another (and better) example of digital muzzle flash from someone else's movie.

VP · Post by VP » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:14 pm

Glurrk wrote:Why not simply add a digital flash when in postproduction?

Because it looks fake.

Altern · Post by **Altern** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 1:15 pm

J_Weaver wrote:
Wow, that has to be one of the dumbest laws I've ever seen. The only difference between the 8x57 and the other calibers you've listed is a few mm. It makes no sense at all.

What were you exactly expecting from the french government ? :p

Well, all jokes set aside, most of the european countries got stupid laws about weapons (like in belgium : they don't have the right to own a 22. long rifle but they can have a k98... As opposed to France, where it's reversed).

Except for Switzerland where the law IMPOSE the citizens to have an assault rifle at home, because every citizen is considered as a potential soldier.
Jeez', come to think of it, i should move to switzerland already.

Glurrk · Post by **Glurrk** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:11 pm

VP wrote:Because it looks fake.

Keep in mind, that you are examining a still image that normally lasts one-thirtieth of a second on an NTSC monitor. However, if your reflexes just happen to be that fast, I salute you. Stand tall and walk proud knowing you stand alone amongst the herd.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 2:58 pm

Altern wrote:What were you exactly expecting from the french government ? :p

Well, all jokes set aside, most of the european countries got stupid laws about weapons (like in belgium : they don't have the right to own a 22. long rifle but they can have a k98... As opposed to France, where it's reversed).

Except for Switzerland where the law IMPOSE the citizens to have an assault rifle at home, because every citizen is considered as a potential soldier.
Jeez', come to think of it, i should move to switzerland already.

Haha Altern, you've got a point!

Wow, I never knew that about Switzerland. I bet the number of home invasions are the among lowest of any country in the world. Its not safe to break into houses ina country where everyone own an assault rifle!

Altern · Post by **Altern** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:54 pm

I found some details about that on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politi ... witzerland

Most amazing thing ? This situation is not unusual in Switzerland. People carrying assault rifle in supermarkets or in the street :

en: Scene from Swiss daily life: a citizen coming back from shooting practice, wearing a regulation assault weapon (without ammunition), and going shopping.

Have fun reading

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:23 pm

"Honey, could you go to the store and get some milk? Oh, and pick up some ammo while you're there."

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:24 pm

Believe it or not, that's heard quite often down here in Tennessee, bink. Seriously!

Regards! Michaelson

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:27 pm

Thanks for the link, thats very interesting.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:27 pm

Yeah, but subsitute milk for moonshine, right?

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:33 pm

NEVER!!! Well, at least not at OUR Wal-Mart!! :evil:

Regards! Michaelson

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:34 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:Yeah, but subsitute milk for moonshine, right?

I did say interesting!

All jokes aside though, I really don't understand what it is with Americans and booze. Many Americans can't enjoy things in moderation. Its smashed or none! As an American college student I think I can speak with a bit of authority on this.

Indakin · Post by **Indakin** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:38 pm

thats insaine lol. Id be shot if i had my han solo blaster in public lol

I saw a guy getting on the plane when i went to disney begining of Jan and he had a large tube carrying case that looked like it was for a projector screen. Jokingly to my friend i said "ahhh hes got a bazoka." Then the guy turned around and on the case it said in big letters BAZOKA .....i was like this

It was actually part of the case, it wasnt hand written. I guess its just the name the company uses though....hopefully.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Jan 21, 2006 8:48 pm

Yep, I remember those cases well from my work. They're specially made to carry highend (read 'expensive') fluid head tripods for film and video work. Bummer name in this day and age too! I used one like it, but it was made by a different company.

Regards! Michaelson

Real or Replica?

Real or Replica?

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