Smith and Wesson M1917 Question

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:33 pm

I found an old (but in beautiful condition) S&W M1917 at my local gunshop, but I had a question to ask before I buy it... it is going to be my "Indy" pistol (as I can't find a good HE2), but will it fit in a typical Raiders style holster offered by many of the Indy Community vendors? For info, it has a 5 inch barrel. Thanks in advance!

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:36 pm

Hmmmm... sounds like the right direction you are going.

You need to read these two threads:
viewtopic.php?t=2844&highlight=1917
viewtopic.php?t=3575&highlight=1917

You will quickly get spun-up on the issues and solutions.

-Sergei

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:35 pm

If its an M1917 in good shape at a good price then buy it regardless.

Of course, you can always have the barrel cut down to Indy specs, but I wouldn't. Todd's Costunes has a Raiders style holster made to fit the S&W's with a longer barrel.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:44 pm

Don't cut the barrel!!!! If anything, buy a separate barrel to cut down. I'd keep the original barrel with the gun, even if it meant getting a second cut down barrel to put on for an Indy "mod." That's just me, though.

bink

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:10 pm

The advice I received which made the most sense. If the 1917 is in great collector shape, then preserve it. It's worth more that way. If it has defects or anything that hinders it's value as a 1917 amongst the gun collecting community, then cut away. Making it a Indy gun, will by far increase the value. Just my thoughts...
-S

Rusty Jones · Post by **Rusty Jones** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:19 pm

I just recieved a 6" barrel Crosman 38T which fits in my TAG raiders holster, and even fastens on the tighter hole

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:27 pm

The only problem I found with the Indy conversion is that its pretty expensive. I looked into converting my HE and I found it was gonna cost almost as much as I paid for the gun. As close as S&W's new model 22 is I don't think I'd convert a HE.

Just my 2 cent.

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:35 pm

Wow! Thanks for all the help. I am particularly interested in the Raiders conversion service... good times, indeed! About a half hour after I posted this, my "gun guy" called and told me he had found an HE2 in .455 with a 6" barrel, in good shape, for about half as much as the 1917 (which was very reasonable as well). I think I'm going to pick them both up, look into converting the HE2, and keep the 1917 as is, as it is the same type my Granfather (a retired Naval Aviator) carried during WWII...

Thanks again for all the great info!

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:14 pm

There you go. That's sounds good. HE2 and 1917. Yeah, if you read my thread I referenced, it was tough cutting that 1917. But as you can see it turned out well.

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:49 pm

Agreed, Sergei... it would have been tough, especially after Michaelson pointed out that cutting would ruin the "US Army Property"...

It turned out well, indeed! Beautiful looking pistol!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:59 am

LeatherneckJones wrote:Wow! Thanks for all the help. I am particularly interested in the Raiders conversion service... good times, indeed! About a half hour after I posted this, my "gun guy" called and told me he had found an HE2 in .455 with a 6" barrel, in good shape, for about half as much as the 1917 (which was very reasonable as well). I think I'm going to pick them both up, look into converting the HE2, and keep the 1917 as is, as it is the same type my Granfather (a retired Naval Aviator) carried during WWII...

Thanks again for all the great info!

Well done! Where were you finding these at such good prices, anyway?

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:01 pm

LeatherneckJones wrote:Agreed, Sergei... it would have been tough, especially after Michaelson pointed out that cutting would ruin the "US Army Property"...

It turned out well, indeed! Beautiful looking pistol!

Glad to 'hear' you have gone this route. They're out there, but the military marked are getting harder to find, so I'm pleased you left that one alone....

Regards! Michaelson

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:01 pm

& don't forget pics as & when you can

Us UK gearheads need stuff to drool over

VP · Post by VP » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:22 pm

No you don't, you already have Wested. Us Finnish gearheads need stuff to drool over.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:28 pm

Regards! Michaelson

VP · Post by VP » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:30 pm

On second thought that should be I Finnish gearhead need stuff to drool over.

thunderquack · Post by **thunderquack** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 9:05 pm

I found my S&W 2nd HE at a local gunshop called Antique and Modern Firearms. It does have the longer barrel, so I've ordered Todd's holster. I got a pretty good deal on it too, paying $300 . They had a few M1917s in the case last time I was there.

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:46 am

Well done! Where were you finding these at such good prices, anyway?

bink

I have a local pawn shop here in Illinois... he calls it a pawn shop, but it mainly deals in used firearms... its called Arenkill's in Aurora, Illinois.

Glad to 'hear' you have gone this route. They're out there, but the military marked are getting harder to find, so I'm pleased you left that one alone....

Regards! Michaelson

Agreed... especially since this one is in really nice shape...

& don't forget pics as & when you can Us UK gearheads need stuff to drool over

Will do!

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:31 pm

VP wrote:No you don't, you already have Wested. Us Finnish gearheads need stuff to drool over.

At Wested you don't so much drool, as weep uncontrolably at the knowledge that to afford all the toys you want from the shop means almost certain bankruptcy

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:14 pm

Okay, next question... I have my HE2 in my hot little hands, just waiting on Mr Devore to get back to me before I send it out to be modified into an "Indy" gun... my question is, the pistol is currently in .455 Eley... should I have the pistol converted to .45 ACP, or should I leave it as the more screen authentic .455?

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:26 pm

My understanding is that Indy S&W was a .455 that had been converted to .45acp.

I left my S&W chambered for .455. I found a company selling .455 ammo and I bought 200 rounds. When I get some extra cash I'll buy the dies I need to reload them. However, if you don't reload it may be best to have it converted to .45acp or .45 Colt. Personally I'd go with the .45 Colt. That way you won't have to fool with those bloody moon clips.

thunderquack · Post by **thunderquack** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:43 pm

The half moon clips arent so bad. My only trouble with them is finding the dratted things!

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:08 am

Hmmm... the .45 Colt doesn't sound half bad, considering how I already have tons of ammo for my Colt Single Action Army...

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:44 am

thunderquack wrote:The half moon clips arent so bad. My only trouble with them is finding the dratted things!

I always see them on ebay.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:17 am

You can also buy them direct from S&W.

Moon Clips

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:48 pm

I've decided to go with the .45 ACP conversion... if I'm going to go through the process of putting together the ultimate Indy pistol, I might as well go all the way, right? Besides, I don't need my retirement fund for a few years!

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:15 pm

Excellent! Just be sure to post pics when you finish.

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:48 am

Will do! Another question of anyone who has dealt with Mr Devore... does he have an e-mail? Its probably because of the holiday, but I've left a couple of phone messages and haven't heard back yet... he IS still doing this work, right? *hopes and prays, crosses fingers*

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:59 pm

Mr. Devore was still working the last I spoke to him back in the early summer. I'd say he is busy, out of town, or something. Otherwise I'm sure he would have gotten in contact with you. he is a nice fellow that really knows his business. I spoke with him about having my S&W converted. However, I couldn't bring myself to send it to the "chopping block". However, my S&W is in very good condition and it came with a letter from S&W about is history. I guess it too unique to "indyize."

Anywho, if you convery your S&W Mr. Devore is the man for the job.

VP · Post by VP » Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:36 am

J_Weaver wrote:My understanding is that Indy S&W was a .455 that had been converted to .45acp.

Interesting. So the Smith&Wesson was a 6 inch barrel .455 1917 that had been converted to 4 inch and .45 ACP, right? What about the Hand Ejector 2?

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:50 am

VP wrote:
J_Weaver wrote:My understanding is that Indy S&W was a .455 that had been converted to .45acp.
Interesting. So the Smith&Wesson was a 6 inch barrel .455 1917 that had been converted to 4 inch and .45 ACP, right? What about the Hand Ejector 2?

Ok, I just checked out the handgun page. The gun Indy hands to Belloq and throws in his suit case was a HE2, not a 1917. It was chambered for .45acp. The other gun that does all of the shooting was also a HE2, but it was chamber for .455. That means it was a made for the Brits in WWI. It would have originally had a 6.5" barrel. But as we all know it was shortened to 4".

So apparently Indy never used a 1917. And apparently none of the gunswere converted to .45acp? Although the 1917 is simply the US Army version of the HE2 with plain grips and a 5.5" barrel. So Indy's revolver was a S&W HE2 chamber for .455 and a 4" barrel.

thunderquack · Post by **thunderquack** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:49 am

The HE2 is the civilian model of the M1917

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:31 pm

thunderquack wrote:The HE2 is the civilian model of the M1917

Yes sir. The HE2 can also be a military model made for the British during WWI. Its the same as the civilian model except it has a lanyard ring, a 6.5" barrel and is chambered in the British .455 caliber.

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:26 pm

My pistol was just sent out to Mr Devore to be converted to the following specs...

It is currently a S&W HE2 with 6" barrel, chambered in .455 Eley, with checkered, gold medallion grips and lanyard ring

It is being converted to a 4" barrel, ramped sights, and rebored to fire .45ACP

It should be back to me in about a month, and I'll post pics... interestingly enough, I was told that there are about six other HE2s and 1917s going through the same process, all waiting to be re-blued... anyone else out there having their pistols "Indy-ized"? Or just a lot of lurkers?? Interesting!

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:11 pm

Well congrats LeatherneckJones. Mr. Devore does do good work. He did the very first Indy conversion on my 1917 in March 2003.

Here are my pics (the top row of this composite picture is the unmodified 1917):

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:52 pm

Jack also did mine back in 2003 (per Sergei's nod) and he did a humdinger of a job as well on mine....

Prior to cutting the barrel, new site, and re-blueing

After the mods...

edit - okay, why won't the pics post? weird...

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:10 pm

Hey MJ, I know what the problem is with your posted pictures. Ampersands are not allowed in URLs. Rename one of your photos, removing the ampersand, or "&", edit the link so that it reflects the new name and give that a try.

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:07 pm

Very nice, Gentlemen! I'm sure I'll be extremely pleased with the pistol. I'm just that much closer to putting together all the gear of a life-long movie hero... ain't this hobby great??

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 1:28 am

Indeed it is... I started the hobby w/ jackets, that lead to the bullwhip. The 1917 was the culmination. In fact... after the 1917 was done with the DeVore conversion, I did the infamous "gun toss" in the meticously, obsessive compulsive search for that "top over" lid suitcase as depicted in Raiders - and called it the icing on the cake. It was a good moment.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 10:54 am

Alright Leatherneck!

Sergi, I started with jackets too. I'm luckey to come from a family of gun enthusiast. It took me about 5 minutes to talk my dad into buying a HE once I told him I had found an excellent piece for $400.

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:33 am

The suitcase ! ! ! I don't have one of those ! !

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:44 pm

Sergei wrote:Hey MJ, I know what the problem is with your posted pictures. Ampersands are not allowed in URLs. Rename one of your photos, removing the ampersand, or "&", edit the link so that it reflects the new name and give that a try.

Ah..... light bulb appears over MN's head. I'll have to remember that and try to change those names when I get a chance. The links work if you copy and paste in address at least.

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:52 pm

Here it is. I just got this baby back this week! I couldn't be happier with it!

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:12 pm

WOW, thats looks great!!!

Have you had a chance to shoot it yet?

One of these days I'm gonna have to buy a HE and actually make myself cut it down. I just couldn't do it to the one I have now.

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:16 pm

Nope, not yet! I ended up leaving it as a .455, and need to find some ammo. I can't wait, though!

IndianaRedmon · Post by **IndianaRedmon** » Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:17 pm

Great looking pistol LeatherneckJones.

Let us know how it shoots at the range when you have the chance.

Indy45 · Post by **Indy45** » Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:25 pm

Leatherneck,

GREAT looking Indy Bapty. And sounds like you got a terrific price.

Based on my research, I think the true screen Bapty WAS a .455, so yours with the gold medallion grips is spot on.

Here's mine from a local gunsmith. My blueing is a little more matte finish, but if Spielberg wants excellent copies for Indy IV, he should PM us...

My brother is doing some research on dies and loads for a .455 MkII Webley, and I'll post when available. (The Fiocchi new ammo is pricey at $35/box 50 and a little dirty, so reloads seem like a better way to go.)

Regards,
Indy45

bleyd · Post by **bleyd** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:37 am

MAN! That thing is gorgeous. Once my kids are old enough and out the door I think the wife will let me get one. For now it's the replicas for me.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:06 pm

Indy 45, Lee make .455 dies. In my research,I've found the dies are the easy part. Tts finding data that is the trick. When I get the time and money I'm gonna buy a set.

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog ... istol.html

$32.98 for a carbide three die set. Thats about as good as it gets!

ShortRound45 · Post by **ShortRound45** » Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:08 pm

Lee dies can be purchased from Midway USA. You will also need to purchase a shell holder that will fit your press.

The shellholder is available from Lee [no.5] and RCBS [no.38]. The RCBS shellholders work in Lyman presses as well.

Order numbers and cost for Lee dies and a RCBS shelholder from Midway USA are:

Item #, Description, Cost
197309, Lee Carbide 3-Die Set 455 Webley Mark 2, $20.99
716664, RCBS Shellholder #38, $5.99

Hope this helps. I'll post what I can about loads at a later date.