Here is the crest seen in the Lucas archive walkthrough

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:14 pm

This is the crest used in some of the film hats, instead of the oval we are accustomed too.

And, this one was seen as well, in at least one of the hats. I would not doubt if this was the crest in the Raiders fedora, as it was the original HJ crest used on their fine vintage hats.

I noticed that the old HJs used a black tape on the brown sweat(you see that Marc?) And, I am proud to say mine use the same contrasting black tape on an antique brown roan sweat.

I just wanted to use my new hosting service again, to see if I had the hang of it, and also to show first hand what the crests looked like during the time the films were made. If anyone has a pic from the films of the oval crest, I would love to see it. Regards, Fedora

VP · Post by VP » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:23 pm

Aren't those ANJALI's hats? At least the first one is.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:27 pm

Aren't those ANJALI's hats? At least the first one is.
_________________

Could be, I saved them but have no clue where they came from. If so, thanks Anjali!! The other one is from one of my vintage HJs. Fedora

VP · Post by VP » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:29 pm

viewtopic.php?p=115360#115360

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 2:55 pm

Yeah, that one is not the oval. Fedora

Oops, his pic seems to have vanished from my monitor!! Anyways, he was showing the inside of the hat, the blurry shot when Indy was with Donavan. You guys know the one. Fedora

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:10 pm

I noticed that the old HJs used a black tape on the brown sweat(you see that Marc?)

Yeah I see it, but I wanted to offer something that is accurate to the time era and that would be a tan colored leather and reading tape as seen on some of the finer hats dating from back then

You know, they used rabit felt as well

Take care my friend,

Marc

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:03 pm

Ok, here's what you are looking for (I think) and more!
The scene you spoke of.

Another shot of the liner, but with a all gold??? (stunt hat maybe?)

And mine, which I don't think it quite the same as the first shots above.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:27 am

Boy, I can just barely see angles in the crest in that flash of liner in Donovan's apartment...but if hard pressed, I'd say Steve's right, it's the older pentagon shape. But BOY is it hard to tell.

J

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:46 am

I'm the same Jerry. It IS the pentagon crest!!! You can clearly see the symbols of the Prince of Wales etc in the back of the crest in that middle picture... while on the oval crest, that's where the unicorn would be. So it WAS the pentagon crest, even in LC!!!

I can't believe it took us so long AFTER the release of the DVDs to find out, but then again, we already "knew" it was the oval crest, didn't we?

Regards,

Marc

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:42 am

Yeah, I think your right, because in the screen shots there's a thick gold border on the crest, and the oval doesn't have that, but the pentagon does.

So, why is the cliff scene hat different?

SkyChief · Post by **SkyChief** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:01 am

So it appears that all these years we've been questing over the coveted "burgundy oval" liner for nothing.

Floribama Steve · Post by **Floribama Steve** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:47 am

Here's a larger screencap that better shows the LC crest. Looks very pentagon-ish to me.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b31/m ... tcrest.jpg

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 9:11 am

So, why is the cliff scene hat differnt?

'cause it's a different hat with a different liner. Similar to the new black liners, that ONLY have the golden HJ script on it. They used to have them in white as well.

Regards,

Marc

VP · Post by VP » Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:35 pm

Now we have to email the guys at Indyfedora.com and HJ and tell them to replace the oval with the pentagon.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:57 pm

We demand the truth be known!

I just stoped by Indyfedora and it says

SELLOUT!!!
Herbert Johnson no longer supplies retailers! Only few hats left!
SELLOUT!!!

Any one heard that?

I didn't phrase my previous question well. It's obviouly a different hat. Why wouldn't they have had the same liners in all the hats? I guess HJ was changing liner designs during that time and just used some of each?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 1:33 pm

SELLOUT!!!
Herbert Johnson no longer supplies retailers! Only few hats left!
SELLOUT!!!

Wow. I am shocked. I think Todd has a good stock though, and should have enough to supply us now that HJ is not retailing them to other stores. Why HJ would do this is beyond me though, unless they are about to go belly up.

Something is up with this, and it does not look good. Fedora

Antone · Post by **Antone** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:59 pm

Fedora wrote:
Wow. I am shocked. I think Todd has a good stock though, and should have enough to supply us now that HJ is not retailing them to other stores. Why HJ would do this is beyond me though, unless they are about to go belly up. Something is up with this, and it does not look good. Fedora

Actually this would be consistent if the new business plan is being put into action in preparation for Indy IV; you commented earlier that the new custom revised Indy hats would be a great market on which to capitolize. If HJ is getting ready to avertise the "new restored only real genuine Indiana Jones hat," perhaps they want everyone to order them from the source, especially if they are going to offer "The Indy" as something separate from the standard Poet, and at a higher price.

Purely speculation at this point, but they do seem to be revising the way they do business...

Antone

Fedoraman · Post by **Fedoraman** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:06 pm

It truly baffles me that after all this time with countless Indy-fans making demands of HJ, that we don't have a person from HJ on this board. Like Peter and David. Honestly, we don't have somebody on the inside yet???

Or is it that they are on the inside, but cannot comment?

BTW - thanks for nothing Steve - now we all have to go out and try to source a darned pentagram liner

Antone · Post by **Antone** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:21 pm

Fedoraman wrote:It truly baffles me that after all this time with countless Indy-fans making demands of HJ, that we don't have a person from HJ on this board. Like Peter and David. Honestly, we don't have somebody on the inside yet???

Or is it that they are on the inside, but cannot comment?

HJ made it clear that they were not particularly interested in catering to the Indy market...or at least not until recently.

It sounds like they may be starting to make some efforts to change that, but it will be interesting to see if it actually goes anywhere. Since all of my information is second- or third-hand, I'm not really in a position to voice an opinion, but it's fun to speculate on what this may mean for the near future...as others have said, I'd love to see them come out with a better Indy hat at a reasonable price.

Antone

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:27 pm

Marc wrote:
So, why is the cliff scene hat differnt?
'cause it's a different hat with a different liner. Similar to the new black liners, that ONLY have the golden HJ script on it. They used to have them in white as well.

Regards,

Marc

Ah, see, I thought the correct answer was that an AdventureBilt was used for that scene. 8-[

Nicht Storen · Post by **Nicht Storen** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:03 pm

"HJ made it clear that they were not particularly interested in catering to the Indy market...or at least not until recently."

Yeah. Not until they heard about the AB and the support it is getting from the Indy fans here. Now they (HJ) want in on a little of the action.

SkyChief · Post by **SkyChief** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:38 pm

IndyDoc wrote:So, why is the cliff scene hat different?

Maybe that was a cheap Stetson they just threw into the movie so they could claim one was on film, making their "Indy's Back! And he's wearing a Stetson" ads somewhat legit.

The fact that the liner is so different from the "Donovan's Den" liner, and that we never saw a liner at all in the previous two movies, makes you wonder how they could've missed it. We see the inside of Indy's hat twice in LC. They try and match blood stains and such for continuity's sake, wouldn't somebody have been conscious of the fact that both liners were different? Then again this was the movie that gave us the "magic gun turrett grabbing bag strap," so I guess anything's possible.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:43 pm

Maybe that was a cheap Stetson they just threw into the movie so they could claim one was on film, making their "Indy's Back! And he's wearing a Stetson" ads somewhat legit.

The fact that the liner is so different from the "Donovan's Den" liner, and that we never saw a liner at all in the previous two movies, makes you wonder how they could've missed it. We see the inside of Indy's hat twice in LC. They try and match blood stains and such for continuity's sake, wouldn't somebody have been conscious of the fact that both liners were different? Then again this was the movie that gave us the "magic gun turrett grabbing bag strap," so I guess anything's possible.

I have noticed on the hat with the gold crest, or whatever it was, is a stiff hat. Look at how it rolls on the brim so easily. It just looks stiff, and if you look closely, it is a very tapered hat. I say Stetson!! Fedora

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:09 pm

Anyone have a Stetson liner picture? The felt is a very light brown in that scene too. There was no color correction in my screen shots from that scene and I lightened the Donovan scene a bit and it's still MUCH darker brown. I don't think I've seen a HJ Indy hat that light brown.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:26 am

Now we have to email the guys at Indyfedora.com and HJ and tell them to replace the oval with the pentagon.

I DID e-mail Poul at Swaine, Adeney and Brigg regarding the pentagon crest. He didn't even take the time to take a look at the jpg-file, but just wrote back, that the oval crest wouldn't be available....

Several people in here including myself have offered HJ help in order to produce a better and more screen accurate Indy Fedora, but so far none of us were taken seriously (at least none that I'm aware of).

It's the same as with Mr. Swales back then: "We made the original, so we should know better than you anyway..."

I wouldn't be surprised, if they're gearing up for Indy IV, though. And later will sell a quite expensive version of what THEY believe is screen accurate.

Just my two cts.

Regards,

Marc

SkyChief · Post by **SkyChief** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:40 am

Marc wrote:I wouldn't be surprised, if [Herbert Johnson is] gearing up for Indy IV, though. And later will sell a quite expensive version of what THEY believe is screen accurate.

I'd like to think that, for tradition's sake, Herbert Johnson would get the Indy 4 account. But another part of me truly hopes they don't. Judging by the HJs I've seen in person in recent years, I think that what they offer is quite subpar. I think the quality shown in the previous movie hats has long vanished, and I'd hate to see Ford sporting a stiff, cardboard-like fedora in the 4th installment. I'd hope that the costume department would recognize that the Herbert Johnson hats of today simply don't match what they supplied the previous movies. They should start from scratch and source somebody who can replicate what Indy's hat should really look like. Wested has benefitted greatly from the input of fans. It's a shame that Herbert Johnson and Richard Swales seemingly turned their noses up at us and continued to let their line deteriorate.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:54 am

Amen!

Couldn't aggree more...

Regards,

Marc

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Sat Dec 24, 2005 10:28 am

Marc wrote:I wouldn't be surprised, if they're gearing up for Indy IV, though. And later will sell a quite expensive version of what THEY believe is screen accurate.
Marc

If they do do the Indy 4 hats I guess they'll at least sell an acurate Indy 4 hat...the other movies, not so much.

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 3:37 am

They aren't in it for the fans. So we'll take our business to places that can make the Indy hat like the ones in the movies. It is quite obvious to me that HJ doesn't care what the customers want as long as there are enough customers that are just looking for a brown hat that looks indyish.

They may get the billing for making the hats, though the only well made hats they make are for those that will be on screen, and if you want what you see on screen go to a custom hatter that knows what they are doing.

SkyChief · Post by **SkyChief** » Sun Dec 25, 2005 6:07 am

Mattdeckard wrote:[Herbert Johnson] may get the billing for making the hats, though the only well made hats they make are for those that will be on screen...

That's what scares me...

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:46 pm

"HJ made it clear that they were not particularly interested in catering to the Indy market...or at least not until recently."

Yeah. Not until they heard about the AB and the support it is getting from the Indy fans here. Now they (HJ) want in on a little of the action.

I'd have to disagree with this wholeheartedly as well. HJ it seems, could care less about any other hatters. I doubt very much they even know about the AB's or many of the other hatters here. Let's face it, businesses like AB or Optimo are so very small and cater to a small, small group and just because both have had lists of celebrity clients does not in any way mean the business is widely known.
I've been here years and all I've ever heard from anyone here is how they don't bend over backwards for anybody. Well...maybe the Queen.

They've been freindly at times, and at other times downright rude, but never gone the extra mile as far as I can remember. They simply DO NOT CARE about Indy or the fans. Period. At least that's what I've gotten out of years of posts.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:04 pm

I heard through the rumor mill that HJ is being bought out. I heard it after I made my original comment here. It was a hat business guy that told me this. But, it is just a rumor as far as I know. But, that would explain why the Indyfedora site is having the sellout on the HJs.

Regarding the current HJ company, they seemed to have a change in marketing once they were bought out this last time. Swaine Aidney, I think. I think they started courting the wholesale market again, featuring their hats in retail stores like in the old days when you could buy an HJ in Brooke's Brothers. That was my impression anyways. And they seemed to show an interest in getting the soft dress felt for the Poet. The current HJs from Todd are very soft rabbit felt, unlike most later HJs that I have seen. So, they seemingly were making an attempt at going after the market just a bit more than when Mr. Swales was with them.

I had talks with them early this year as I was considering stocking the HJ and reblocking them to my better block shape and then reselling. The folks that I talked to were at the headquarters and not the retail shop. So, in a way they do know about me, or rather Adventurebilt Hat Co.

But, I am sure they forgot me as soon as I did not order!

Personally I am curious as to what is going on, from a fan's point of view, but also from someone who is interested in the hat business in general. Back when I was talking to them, their buyer, was traveling around China and Europe looking at felt from various producers. Fedora

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 2:13 pm

But, I am sure they forgot me as soon as I did not order!

From what I've read over the years they'd have forgotten about you or anybody even if you DID order. One can only hope that HJ will come around whether they are bought out or not. Better to have more than less, I say. In any case, it seems from what Fedora states they're on a better path without Swales, at least in terms of the poet.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:00 pm

Well they DO know of Adventurebilt Hat Co. - I can tell you for sure (just re-read the e-mail I got from Paul in the other HJ thread).

In fact he claimed to have seen one of Steve's Indy Fedoras, so they SHOULD know what an Indy Fedora SHOULD look like as well...

Regards,

Marc

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Dec 26, 2005 9:34 pm

In fact he claimed to have seen one of Steve's Indy Fedoras, so they SHOULD know what an Indy Fedora SHOULD look like as well...

Right Marc, I had plumb forgot about that!! Fedora