Indy Style Vintage Borsalino

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:36 pm

So, Spielberg dragged me into this vintage clothes shop. She has been bitten hard by the vintage bug. In this shop, there are hat boxes everywhere, old ones. I started to go through them; about half were empty and the other half had hats. Three or four of them were from the same gentleman, whose intitials are inside the hat.

I found a top hat, a homburg, a very old straw hat, and a brown fedora.

I could hardly believe my eyes. This hat is butter soft, Adventurebilt soft! It is very thin and is a very nice and rich color. The sweatband looks brand new and the liner has some sort of stain in one spot, but other than that, it looks brand new. The fur felt is flawless. It looks as if it were made a week ago.

I tried it on and it was a little big, but we all know a bit of foam around the inside of the sweatband will take care of that.

It was $65. I thought, 'do I really need it?' Probably not, but neither could I leave it behind, so I bought it.

Here she is. Tell me what you think.

I think it has a great block shape.
BTW, I bought the vintage 1940's tie too. What do you think?

Here's the liner:

Post by **Ken** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:47 pm

Thats a great find. Are you planning to make it as Indy as possible or wear it with the bound edge and just use it as a Indy-esque fedora?

Ken

Antone · Post by **Antone** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:47 pm

Beautiful find, you lucky dog, and for $65?!? I don't suppose they had 2 of those, by any chance...

Out of curiosity, is that a teardrop or center dent? Don't suppose you have a photo from slightly above, do you?

In any case, very nice.

Antone

Post by **Ken** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:51 pm

I am going to go ahead and guess its teardrop

Ken

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:59 pm

Indiana Ken wrote:Thats a great find. Are you planning to make it as Indy as possible or wear it with the bound edge and just use it as a Indy-esque fedora?
Ken

Thanks Ken! I am keeping it as is. I won't touch a thing. It is perfect the way it is.

Antone wrote:Beautiful find, you lucky dog, and for $65?!? I don't suppose they had 2 of those, by any chance...

Out of curiosity, is that a teardrop or center dent? Don't suppose you have a photo from slightly above, do you?

In any case, very nice.

Antone

Thanks Antone, I feel fortunate. Here are some additional photos:

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:00 pm

If you can't tell, it's a center dent!

Post by **Ken** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:02 pm

Oh well - guess I lose the raffle

Ken

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:06 pm

Great find my friend!

I wish I could get lucky and find something like that.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:09 pm

I am just so glad that Spiely dragged me over there. And to think I didn't want to go!
Ken, one would think that it is a tear drop because it is so square.
Thanks, Weaver, I hope you find one too. Always be on the lookout.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:16 pm

Hemingway Jones wrote:I am just so glad that Spiely dragged me over there. And to think I didn't want to go!

Ya know, every now and then women forcing you to go somewhere pays off.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:17 pm

How lucky can a fellow get?! WOW!! I mean, who can beat 65$ for a near mint vintage lid? I think it looks fantastic. The only thing I would do to it is replace the ribbon with a thinner grosgrain, and make the bow a little more Indy-ish, though it still looks marvelous as it is.

I say again: GREAT FIND!

I say you should take Spiely out to dinner for that one

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:00 pm

J_Weaver wrote:
Hemingway Jones wrote:I am just so glad that Spiely dragged me over there. And to think I didn't want to go!
Ya know, every now and then women forcing you to go somewhere pays off.

This may be the first time in the history of mankind.

Strider wrote:How lucky can a fellow get?! WOW!! I mean, who can beat 65$ for a near mint vintage lid? I think it looks fantastic. The only thing I would do to it is replace the ribbon with a thinner grosgrain, and make the bow a little more Indy-ish, though it still looks marvelous as it is.

I say again: GREAT FIND!

I say you should take Spiely out to dinner for that one

Thank you, young sir. Yes, Spiely is due for some compensation for enduring me all this time.
I'll tell you, this lid is Indy-ish, if you will. I will wear it as such. I have two brown Adventurebilts and a gray Adventurebilt, as well as a shrivelled green Akubra. To alter this lid, in my humble opinion, would be sacriligious. Though it is a profound temptation!!!
If I pulled off the bound brim, replaced the ribbon and bow, as you said, it would be a perfect Indy lid.
I haven't the heart.
This will be my thirties hat.

Does anyone have any idea what the string is around the crown at the bottom of the ribbon??? I have no clue.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:14 pm

Hemingway Jones wrote:I haven't the heart.
This will be my thirties hat.

Can't say as I blame you!

Hemingway Jones wrote:Does anyone have any idea what the string is around the crown at the bottom of the ribbon??? I have no clue.

Hmp! I'm stumped on that one. I see it, but gee, I can't figure out what it is. Is it attatched to anything, or is it just a piece of thread that traverses the circumfrence of the hat's crown?

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:20 pm

Strider wrote:
Hemingway Jones wrote:Does anyone have any idea what the string is around the crown at the bottom of the ribbon??? I have no clue.
Hmp! I'm stumped on that one. I see it, but gee, I can't figure out what it is. Is it attatched to anything, or is it just a piece of thread that traverses the circumfrence of the hat's crown?

It's thicker than thread. I would be tempted to call it a cord, a very thin cord. There is a button covered with the same material as the ribbon at one end and a loop in the cord in the other. It seems to be able to move around it.
Boy, I hope Fedora chimes in. I'm sure he would know what it is...

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:28 pm

It could be a cord that buttons onto something you would attatch to your lapel to keep your hat from blowing off in a stiff breeze.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:31 pm

Strider wrote:It could be a cord that buttons onto something you would attatch to your lapel to keep your hat from blowing off in a stiff breeze.

That's a good thought.

I'll go with that.

FloatinJoe · Post by **FloatinJoe** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:26 pm

That's a nice lid, I've got to start shopping vintage again.

fedoralover · Post by **fedoralover** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:40 pm

It's called a wind trolley, and yes it was used to attach to your shirt or suit so if the wind blew it off it wouldn't get very far. I'm glad you are not going to alter it. With all the superb Indy fedora's on the market now there is no need to make this classic vintage one another "Indy look a like". I"ve seen these go for over $200 on ebay. To get one of this age and in such good of shape for the same price as a cheap off the shelf hat was a real find.
Just as a suggestion though, you might want to lower the crown in the back so it is slightly lower than the front. That was the classic way they were worn back in the day.

regards fedoralover

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 11:56 pm

Very nice, Hemingway! And yes, you've got a wind cord on that beauty. I've got several vintage hats with them!

bink

fedoralover · Post by **fedoralover** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:17 am

A few details about this era of hat that deserves mentioning, if you notice the sweatband, it is "topstitched" in. Meaning there is no welt, and these are pretty much impossible to get sewn back in nowadays as it takes a special machine to do it. I'm not sure if even Optimo has one. So be very careful if you pull it down as they will pull out easier. But with this type of stitching it makes for a smoother transition from the sweatband to the felt.
Also at if you look at the front of the sweatband it will be kinda corrigated, this was done for ventilation. Something else not done today.

I have 4 of these types of hats and wish I had more.

fedoralover

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:22 am

wind trolley

Thank you. I was at a loss for what it was called when I described it, but I pretty much had a gut feeling that's what it was. I guess after hats have been your hobby for awhile, you get that mental image of exactly what something is, without being able to describe it.

We used to sell them at the Village Hat Shop when I worked there, but no one there knew what it was called either

.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:33 am

floatinjoe wrote:That's a nice lid, I've got to start shopping vintage again.

Thank you, Joe. Yes, you never know what you might find. I nearly fell over when I found this.

binkmeisterRick wrote:Very nice, Hemingway! And yes, you've got a wind cord on that beauty. I've got several vintage hats with them!

bink

Thank you, bink. Weren't we just speaking of shopping vintage the other night? It's amazing what you can find.

fedoralover wrote:It's called a wind trolley, and yes it was used to attach to your shirt or suit so if the wind blew it off it wouldn't get very far. I'm glad you are not going to alter it. With all the superb Indy fedora's on the market now there is no need to make this classic vintage one another "Indy look a like". I"ve seen these go for over $200 on ebay. To get one of this age and in such good of shape for the same price as a cheap off the shelf hat was a real find.
Just as a suggestion though, you might want to lower the crown in the back so it is slightly lower than the front. That was the classic way they were worn back in the day.

regards fedoralover

A few details about this era of hat that deserves mentioning, if you notice the sweatband, it is "topstitched" in. Meaning there is no welt, and these are pretty much impossible to get sewn back in nowadays as it takes a special machine to do it. I'm not sure if even Optimo has one. So be very careful if you pull it down as they will pull out easier. But with this type of stitching it makes for a smoother transition from the sweatband to the felt.
Also at if you look at the front of the sweatband it will be kinda corrigated, this was done for ventilation. Something else not done today.

I have 4 of these types of hats and wish I had more.

fedoralover

Thanks for all of the information, fedoralover. I agree with you about not altering it. Why hammer this one into an Indy lid when Fedora can make me a perfect one?! This hat is what it is, and that is something exquisite.

Thanks for the information about pricing. I had no idea if I spent the right amount or not. It seemed like a good price to me.

An interesting thing about this, is that the shop had 4 hats (left?) from this gentleman. Two of them were very used. The straw hat was nearly destroyed and the homburg was sweat-stained, though the felt was in good shape. The top hat was just old (they don't seem to age well). The homburg was a very formal hat. I get the impression that he was a very formal gentleman and that maybe the fedora was a bit too natty for him. It looks like it may have been worn once.

Thanks for your kind words!

See Strider, we're all learning new stuff everyday.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:07 am

Ow nice borsalino HJ, i see in the liner it was made in Alessandria so it's really vintage.

Personally i wouldnt have transformed it into an indy style hat

Feraud · Post by **Feraud** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:13 am

Hemingway Jones, that hat is perfect! Do not change a thing and remember to thank Ms. Spielberg with a proper dinner.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:20 am

Okay, Hemingway, when I come up there someday, we're going vintage shopping.

Indyjim · Post by **Indyjim** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:29 am

OMG $65!!!

Incredible find. Love the straight sides.

VP · Post by VP » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:42 am

I just got a crappy dark green Road to Perdiotionish fed for 23 bucks.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:43 am

erri_wan wrote:Ow nice borsalino HJ, i see in the liner it was made in Alessandria so it's really vintage.

Personally i wouldnt have transformed it into an indy style hat

Thank you, erri. Let me make one thing clear here, if I haven't already:
I did nothing to this hat, except buy it and pit a bit of tape behind the sweat band to make it fit better. The current styling is how I found it. I didn't tweak it, rebash it, turn it, or alter it in any other way. She is as I found her!

Feraud wrote:Hemingway Jones, that hat is perfect! Do not change a thing and remember to thank Ms. Spielberg with a proper dinner.

Don't worry, my friend. I will not touch it. See above!

binkmeisterRick wrote:Okay, Hemingway, when I come up there someday, we're going vintage shopping.

That's a great idea, bink. We have some great shops up here. Old Bostonians had great wardrobes. -And some of the younger ones do as well.

Indyjim wrote:OMG $65!!! Incredible find. Love the straight sides.

Thanks, jim. I agree. The sides are so straight and the crown is so tall, yet it looks good with my mug.

VP wrote:I just got a crappy dark green Road to Perdiotionish fed for 23 bucks.

VP, that hat sounds nice. I'd like to see it sometime. You know how I am with green fedoras.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:01 pm

That's a really great find, fab hat!

West Virginia Jones · Post by **West Virginia Jones** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:19 pm

I must chime in, if just to echo the sentiments of others. That is one fantastic hat, & at $65, what a find!!!! You are indeed a lucky man. Congratulations, HJ. I'm happy for you.

Regards.

West Virginia Jones

VP · Post by VP » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:26 pm

Hemingway Jones wrote:I'd like to see it sometime.

Here you go.

No flash:

Flash:

Looks a bit like erri's Stetson 84.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:39 pm

Thanks VP,
I think that is a nice looking hat. The ribbon is a bit beat up, but the crown and brim look very nice. It's tough to do color with all of the factors to consider, but I like it! You can never have enough hats.

GraveRobberGreg · Post by **GraveRobberGreg** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:02 pm

HJ great hat my friend. I have been keeping a close eye on our vintage stores as well as the thrift stores for some vintage fedoras but havent had any luck yet. I'm sure one day I will walk into one and find the pot of gold i have been looking for.

Tell Speilberg she needs to start posting now that she has made so many new friends.

Happy Holidays to you both.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:04 pm

Thanks Pal, I'll pass your sentiments along.

I hope she posts more. She doesn't quite understand COW yet, but she will.
Good luck on your search. There are great vintage items out there to be had.

prairiejones · Post by **prairiejones** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:41 pm

HJ, that is a great find.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:06 pm

VP wrote: Looks a bit like erri's Stetson 84.

you're right. My EX-stetson'84 was quite similar

Indiana Williams · Post by **Indiana Williams** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:55 pm

I have to agree with everyone else. very nice find, HJ.
Best Regards,
Joe

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:03 pm

prairiejones wrote:HJ, that is a great find.

Thanks buddy.

Indiana Williams wrote:I have to agree with everyone else. very nice find, HJ.
Best Regards,
Joe

Thanks Pal! I am very happy with it.

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:20 pm

Hemingway, that truly is a beautiful hat.

I'm glad that you are leaving it as it is, as I feel that it already has a perfect bash to it.

Great find, my friend.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:41 am

Thank you, Caynon!
Some things are best left alone.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:22 am

Great hat!!

If I pulled off the bound brim, replaced the ribbon and bow, as you said, it would be a perfect Indy lid.
I haven't the heart.
This will be my thirties hat.

Yeah, leave it as is. Many times on vintage hats, the felt will be a darker color under the ribbons. So, if you replace the ribbon with a narrower one, you might have a stripe above it. Same with bound brims. I have butchered several vintage hats, in the past to make them look more Indyish. A mistake!!! I think that I did it so many times, that I had the vintage guys take a contract out on me!!!

Seriously, nowadays I would leave a vintage hat as is. It has become sacreligious to do so. And those numbers are finite. Heck, I even have trouble wearing my vintage hats!!! Most spend their lives in the old hat boxes that came with the hat. I take them out every now and then and do the appreciation routine. It is getting harder and harder to replace them as time goes on. Fedora

Post by **Jens** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:32 am

Wow, Hem! That is an awesome find. The hat looks beautiful´and has "style". But, well ... I guess, you already know that.

Great find, congratulations!

-- Jens

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:05 pm

Fedora wrote:Great hat!!
Yeah, leave it as is. Many times on vintage hats, the felt will be a darker color under the ribbons. So, if you replace the ribbon with a narrower one, you might have a stripe above it. Same with bound brims. I have butchered several vintage hats, in the past to make them look more Indyish. A mistake!!! I think that I did it so many times, that I had the vintage guys take a contract out on me!!! Seriously, nowadays I would leave a vintage hat as is. It has become sacreligious to do so. And those numbers are finite. Heck, I even have trouble wearing my vintage hats!!! Most spend their lives in the old hat boxes that came with the hat. I take them out every now and then and do the appreciation routine. It is getting harder and harder to replace them as time goes on. Fedora

Thank you, Steve!
Don't worry; I won't touch this one except to wear it. It is an extraordinary hat and I will conserve it. My owning it will prolong its life for hopefully, at least the next 25 years.
I think, if I did alter it, the folks at the Fedora Lounge would revoke my membership!

Thanks for all of the information on it.
Best,
HJ

IndyJens wrote:Wow, Hem! That is an awesome find. The hat looks beautiful´and has "style". But, well ... I guess, you already know that.

Great find, congratulations!

-- Jens

Thank you, Jens. I appreciate that. When you find something like this you feel so fortunate!

Modern Jones · Post by **Modern Jones** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:24 pm

You are a lucky man Tim!

Not only does it look great on your noggin, it fits!!! Most of the vintage ones I've seen are too small.

I have to get out more often!

MJ

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:28 pm

Thank you, Indykid.

Modern Jones wrote:You are a lucky man Tim!

Not only does it look great on your noggin, it fits!!! Most of the vintage ones I've seen are too small.

I have to get out more often!

MJ

Thanks, MJ! And it's nice to see you on the board again. Don't be a stranger!

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:52 pm

I may have missed it in the scan, HJ...but what size is this new found prize?

Regards! Michaelson

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:01 pm

Michaelson wrote:I may have missed it in the scan, HJ...but what size is this new found prize?

Regards! Michaelson

It's a 7 1/2 and I initially put a bit of tape behind the sweatband to get it to fit. After wearing it around for an afternoon, I was able to take the tape out. I wear a 7 3/8. This hat was kind enough to accommodate me!

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:29 pm

Wonderful find. I'm gonna have to start hitting the vintage shops myself! Oh, just a word of warning on the wind trolley... I can't recall (I think it was Michaelson) that used a wind trolley (putting the button in the lapel) and a gust came, took the hat off, and (SNAP!) went the wind trolley. So I'd say keep the trolley on her as a fun add-on, but don't use it!

The Peter Bros PBBM's I think still come with a wind trolley standard. I cut them off my two brown ones, but retained it on the grey.

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:05 pm

Hem, it saddens me to think that you're going to change that wonderful hat for an Indy fedora, don't you have a bunch of ABs already?!

Hemingway Jones wrote:Thanks Ken! I am keeping it as is. I won't touch a thing. It is perfect the way it is.

I mean, this is such a perfect example of a period fedora, and in such great shape, why would you ever want to change it?

Hemingway Jones wrote:I'll tell you, this lid is Indy-ish, if you will. I will wear it as such. I have two brown Adventurebilts and a gray Adventurebilt, as well as a shrivelled green Akubra. To alter this lid, in my humble opinion, would be sacriligious. Though it is a profound temptation!!!

Isn't there anything I can say to convince you to keep the hat as is?

Hemingway Jones wrote:If I pulled off the bound brim, replaced the ribbon and bow, as you said, it would be a perfect Indy lid.
I haven't the heart.
This will be my thirties hat.

Well fine, if you insist on ruining that beauty go ahead... but don't say I didn't warn you...

Hemingway Jones wrote:I did nothing to this hat, except buy it and pit a bit of tape behind the sweat band to make it fit better. The current styling is how I found it. I didn't tweak it, rebash it, turn it, or alter it in any other way. She is as I found her!

Alright Geez! No need to yell!

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:16 pm

IGB, You so funny.

Minnesota, I'll probably leave the trolley where it is. It is part of the original hat, so as such, I feel obliged to keep it.

BTW, this just gets better and better: I didn't have the money on me at the time to buy these and Spielberg spotted me for it. Today, she said, just keep them (the tie and hat) as your Christmas present!
Why, thank you!!! Merry Christmas to me!