If Indy were to wear a watch

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:05 am

Indiana Croft wrote:how much wood .... you guys are funny.

'Preciate you having a sense of humor, Croft.

Okay, assuming we are just talking about when he's in his civvies...I agree that it would not be something out of his price range...but I also don't see him actually fussing w/ what kind of watch to wear.

So I figure it would be driven by his life choices, not style choices.

I would think that a piece with personal history would would probably be the one he'd keep. Something from his past, maybe a gift. But not from his estranged Dad, nor from any of the women he'd left - I think only Abner, as a surrogate could give him a gift he'd hang onto, or possibly Marcus.

What kind of watch that would be...I just can't guess. But I think it'd have to mean something to him - like be his from The Great War, still in working condition, or a gift from a trusted friend.

Of course, I can't see most of his friends giving him a watch...maybe a new gun...or Pecards...

...so I guess that leaves whatever he might have been issued as infantry. Okay, which one would that be?

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:17 am

Sergei wrote: BTW, Bufflehead Jones and me finally agreed on something... ) )

Woohoo! It's about time I got something right. $\:D/$

Heliograph · Post by **Heliograph** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:53 am

Today everyone wears a wristwatch and they are fashion accessaries, but I don't believe that was the case in the Depression. A nice pocket watch was the province of management, of seniority, and a visible sign of authority. Train engineers and conductors carried watches for professional reasons. Bankers and lawyers worn them because they looked good on a vest. Retired employees war them as a badge of loyal service.

Pocket watches and fobs were a big thing, but no something worn day to day by someone doing manual labor and digging is manual labor.

I'd see Indy as plain vanilla and functional. Was time divided into minutes that important to him? I don't thinks so. He thought in terms of centuries and millenia as an archaeologist. He might refer to a watch once or twice a day.

My guess? No watch or a plain dollar pocket watch.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:28 am

Indiana Croft wrote:.
Thats all. Oh and Michealson, silver or gold wich would be the correct color for that time period. Any guess.
Croft

Of the one's I've seen, handled, and owned, it seems the vast majority were made in gold...usually 10k rolled for standard use with stainless steel back, then the higher contents were 12k and 14k for fine dress watches, case AND back. The all stainless steel cases were usually reserved for military type watches and usage.

Once again...just what I've had and observed over the years.

Regards! Michaelson

Baggers · Post by **Baggers** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:22 pm

Heliograph wrote:I'd see Indy as plain vanilla and functional. Was time divided into minutes that important to him? I don't thinks so. He thought in terms of centuries and millenia as an archaeologist. He might refer to a watch once or twice a day.

My guess? No watch or a plain dollar pocket watch.

I'm not sure about that. Having access to the precise time is an important consideration for navigation and plotting one's position on the planet. The early desert explorers in the 1920s and 30s were only able to navigate the unmapped expanses of the Libyan sand seas by using a theodolite for taking a star fix at night to determine their exact position, and that required a precise time hack. Then, while traveling during the day they'd use dead reckoning with the aid of a magnetic compass (or a sun compass, invented by Major Ralph Bagnold -- the inspiration for my forum name BTW), a watch and speedometer in order to gauge bearing and distance covered over time.

Indy, in his travels to far flung digs would have needed a precise, rugged, no frills timepiece as a tool. Either for getting there or surveying a site. And since he had served in World War I he probably would have worn a wristwatch as he would have found it much handier to use, just as scores of other servicemen discovered during that conflict.

Cheers!

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:14 pm

Baggers wrote:
Heliograph wrote:I'd see Indy as plain vanilla and functional. Was time divided into minutes that important to him? I don't thinks so. He thought in terms of centuries and millenia as an archaeologist. He might refer to a watch once or twice a day.

My guess? No watch or a plain dollar pocket watch.
I'm not sure about that. Having access to the precise time is an important consideration for navigation and plotting one's position on the planet. The early desert explorers in the 1920s and 30s were only able to navigate the unmapped expanses of the Libyan sand seas by using a theodolite for taking a star fix at night to determine their exact position, and that required a precise time hack. Then, while traveling during the day they'd use dead reckoning with the aid of a magnetic compass (or a sun compass, invented by Major Ralph Bagnold -- the inspiration for my forum name BTW), a watch and speedometer in order to gauge bearing and distance covered over time.

Indy, in his travels to far flung digs would have needed a precise, rugged, no frills timepiece as a tool. Either for getting there or surveying a site. And since he had served in World War I he probably would have worn a wristwatch as he would have found it much handier to use, just as scores of other servicemen discovered during that conflict.

Cheers!

That's an extremely good point Baggers. I always rely on a watch for navigating - especially on new trails. I typically note the time at the trail head, and note the time when a directional turn occured so that back tracking is done more reliably.

From a military point of view, during World War I, the convenience of wristwatches (as opposed to pocket watches) was discovered. The new age of war required more tactical precision where synchronized flanking attacks were developed in the field of battle. Having your hands free in battle were a vital necessity. Wristwatches were no longer considered a novelty but were now a wartime necessity, and companies were scrambling to keep up with the demand. By the 30's, so many advances were made in the case and crystal design that men started to wear wristwatches over pocket watches.

I think I might have heard this from Michaelson, due to the big switch in the 30's over to wristwatches, it caused a flood of pocket watches in the market. That's why there are so many from the early 20th century that are in such good shape.

-Sergei

Heliograph · Post by **Heliograph** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:16 pm

Baggers wrote:
Indy, in his travels to far flung digs would have needed a precise, rugged, no frills timepiece as a tool. Either for getting there or surveying a site. And since he had served in World War I he probably would have worn a wristwatch as he would have found it much handier to use, just as scores of other servicemen discovered during that conflict.

Cheers!

A good counterargument, but I don't think that level of timekeeping would be relegated to a mere wristwatch, but rather to a boxed chronometer protected from the elements and kept with organizational gear like the theodolite.

The Special Air Service, Popski's Private Army, or the Long Range Desert Group did not, rely on wristwatches for precision navigation in the desert. I may be wrong...

Baggers · Post by **Baggers** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:40 pm

Heliograph wrote:
Baggers wrote:A good counterargument, but I don't think that level of timekeeping would be relegated to a mere wristwatch, but rather to a boxed chronometer protected from the elements and kept with organizational gear like the theodolite.

The Special Air Service, Popski's Private Army, or the Long Range Desert Group did not, rely on wristwatches for precision navigation in the desert. I may be wrong...

Perhaps not over the long term, but even so, don't underestimate the accuracy of wristwatches that were made during the 1930s. But to keep everything synced up and accurate they relied on a radio signal received over their wireless sets from the BBC. Using this, and the aforementioned tools, units like LRDG, SAS and PPA were able to cross 300 or 400 miles of desert and arrive within a mile of their destinations with astonishing regularity (BTW actually, in the beginning it was the LRDG who hauled the SAS and PPA around the desert. For this they were known as the "Libyan Taxi Service."

)

Cheers!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:51 pm

Yep, Sergei, you heard that from me.

Just a point here, though. Without the influence of the YIJC information, and if we base all our theory on the three actual Indy movies...I'm of the same mind as Heliograph as to what he WOULD have carried, or not carried.

Let's look at some examples....he's taken to the airport in Raiders...not once, but twice. He's flown into the jungle by Jock...and picked up as well...he's ushered around by Sallah in the desert in both LC AND Raiders....he's flown in TofD, and guided by the Holy Man, and the Elephant owners...and is lead back to the village by the freed children....

I can not think of a single instance where he's personally navigating himself from point A to point B in an unknown area where he's required to provide his own mode of time tracking or mode of travel. I think he's just aware of when he is supposed to hold class, and then has folks move him around where he needs to be, WHEN he needs to be. He's like every professor I work with here at UT Space Institute.

So, time is never an issue, and if he needed to KNOW the time, I'm betting he just asked someone what THEIR watch said.

Factor in the novels and YIJC's, then it's another whloe spin on the possibility.

Oh, and Baggers, you can go even further back to the 20's in 'dead reckoning' using a watch. That's how Lindberg navigated the Atlantic in 1927.

Regards! Michaelson

Baggers · Post by **Baggers** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:14 pm

Michaelson wrote:Let's look at some examples....he's taken to the airport in Raiders...not once, but twice. He's flown into the jungle by Jock...and picked up as well...he's ushered around by Sallah in the desert in both LC AND Raiders....he's flown in TofD, and guided by the Holy Man, and the Elephant owners...and is lead back to the village by the freed children....

I can not think of a single instance where he's personally navigating himself from point A to point B in an unknown area where he's required to provide his own mode of time tracking or mode of travel. I think he's just aware of when he is supposed to hold class, and then has folks move him around where he needs to be, WHEN he needs to be. He's like every professor I work with here at UT Space Institute.

So, time is never an issue, and if he needed to KNOW the time, I'm betting he just asked someone what THEIR watch said.

Factor in the novels and YIJC's, then it's another whloe spin on the possibility.

Oh, and Baggers, you can go even further back to the 20's in 'dead reckoning' using a watch. That's how Lindberg navigated the Atlantic in 1927.

Regards! Michaelson

I can't really buy into that interpretation, Michaelson. Just because you can't see Indy doing these things for himself doesn't mean he's incapable of doing them. It just seems inconsistant of a character who carries a gun and a whip and doesn't hesitate to use them to imply that he can't guide himself somewhere if he needed to. Kinda takes a bit of wind out of that whole "action hero" persona for me, ya know?

And I have no doubt that dead reckoning was around earlier, after all Lindberg had to learn the technique from somebody, right? The example I used was just the first one that popped into my head that related to Indy in some way.

Cheers!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:17 pm

Well, no problem, we'll just agree to disagree then. I have no problems with the theory myself, as in your case, you're making assumptions that we can not prove one way or the other. I'm basing my theory on what we actually see on the screen. That's all.

Regards! Michaelson

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 4:25 pm

Michaelson wrote:I can not think of a single instance where he's personally navigating himself from point A to point B in an unknown area where he's required to provide his own mode of time tracking or mode of travel.

Well, he sort of did a bang-up job getting the Ark from point A to point B. Screwed up a bit on point C though.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:21 am

Okay, I admit it, I was kidding about the sundial. Oh, no surprise there, eh?

Yeah, I can't see him w/ a watch, aside from still having one working from the war 20 YEARS BEFORE or as a cherished gift. For the most part, he just gets where he's going.

The movies probably shouldn't be used as a good reference for whether or not he ever used or needed a watch. If it were so, then we'd also need a thread to discuss whether Indy actually ever HAD any bowel movements.

Silly thought aside, the point is that looking at your watch is a basic maintenance thing, like shaving, hitting the head, and tieing your shoes. Indy never seemed to ties his shoes either...

...but I think it's more relevant to note that the movies are compressed time - gosh, I hope his life wasn't like that every day, but we basically saw in each movie a day or a few days of rapid movement, jam-packed w/ adventure. When I have days like that, I don't recall ever looking at my watch either, or even needing to - I'm just in the flow of things. (The TV show '24' does seem to blow a big hole in this argument, I'm aware.)

J

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:35 am

Indy needed to know exactly what time it was to be lowered into the map room at Tannis in order to use the Staff of Ra. I can't imagine he left that up to Sullah. I am sure he timed it such that he would be in there for the minimum amount of time, since he was surrounded by a battalion of Rommel's army.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:08 am

What I find very interesting is that, as mentioned above, Lindberg used dead reckoning for his flight, and all he used was a standard, run of the mill 17j Waltham wristwatch. Nothing fancy...just his own personal watch. Longines has also claimed that it was THEIR watch that he wore, and the debate between the Waltham folks and the Longines folks will continue as long as the 'Wested vs FS' debates rage

, but both side agree, there was nothing fancy or special about his watch. It was just an off the production line standard wrist watch that could be purchased in any jewelry/watch shop of his day.

Why do I find that interesting? Well, here he was flying in experimental, state of the art, HIGH tech (for it's day) machine, and yet bet his life on something he purchased at (essentially) the local 5 and dime.

Something so important too....

Regards! Michaelson

IllinoisJones · Post by **IllinoisJones** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:46 pm

I don't think he'd wear a watch, but I found this, and it looks like something he'd wear. It s from world war one, and has a metal protector over the crystal.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:49 pm

THAT'S interesting, Illinois...but where did you find that?

android · Post by **android** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:51 pm

I think he would have gone with one of the major American watches at the time. Either a Hamilton, Elgin or Waltham. Or something like the Mallory watch. He'd use a wristwatch in the field.

I have a 1935 Hamiltion with a 982 movement and it still keeps very good time, so there is no compelling reason to use a more bulky pocketwatch.

Zach R. · Post by **Zach R.** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 7:06 pm

That J Peterman Mallory watch looks interesting, to those that own it, would you mind taking a few pics? The ones on the site aren't so hot.

IllinoisJones · Post by **IllinoisJones** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 4:27 am

THAT'S interesting, Illinois...but where did you find that?

http://www.hartfordyork.com/ShowView/category/104/2

Illinois

Indiana Croft · Post by **Indiana Croft** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:48 pm

Wow. You guys are probably the most knowlegable people I know about things that related around the world of Indy and his time period. I'm honored for all those who chimed in on this thread. It's very intresting to read the responses. Some nice pic's of watches to.

Indana Jerry wrote

Indiana Croft wrote:
how much wood .... you guys are funny.

'Preciate you having a sense of humor, Croft.

My friend humor gets us through the day! If I didn't have one I'd gone crazy dealing w/some of the people I have to deal with.

Croft

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 11:24 pm

Indiana Jerry wrote:The movies probably shouldn't be used as a good reference for whether or not he ever used or needed a watch. If it were so, then we'd also need a thread to discuss whether Indy actually ever HAD any bowel movements.

Good arguement, as he doesn't drink my fluids given the hot enviroments he's in either

BTW Jerry, I watched your avatar non-stop for an hour & it never blinked

But after 2 hours & 47 minutes non-stop watching, he did get up, walk out of view, re-appear with an ice cream & eat it

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:01 am

Skippy wrote:BTW Jerry, I watched your avatar non-stop for an hour & it never blinked
But after 2 hours & 47 minutes non-stop watching, he did get up, walk out of view, re-appear with an ice cream & eat it

Oh, shoot, that was my Harry Potter avatar...sorry, have to go switch them again...hey, are you sure YOU didn't blink at the same time? You really have to put toothpicks in your eyes to make sure...

Back ON TOPIC...even though Indy apparently didn't wear a watch, I DO. So I ended up picking up a Fossil recently (Indy would appreciate the name, at least

) for wearing w/ my gear, since the stainless steel watch I've got just doesn't look period, ya know?

Take a peek - I picked the most distressed looking brown leather band, and the brown face w/ the blue sheen and silver numbers. The sheen is only barely there...too bad they didn't have any timepieces w/ retro faces, but this is something I could swap in if I find another.

The bands are only $20! (The timepieces are what cost $.)
http://www.fossil.com/jump.jsp?itemID=2 ... e=CATEGORY

I LOVE pocket watches myself - Michaelson got a few folks to look into the history on my great-grandfather's railroad watch and identified it for me (a 1902 Waltham Ball ORRS 16s 17j). I wear it on DRESS occasions, as despite the fact that yes, it could handle daily use, the sentimental value alone demands reverence and respect. Certainly another beautiful old watch without the family history I could carry more regularly, but this has significance to my family, so I feel I am as much the owner as the caretaker of this heirloom, and therefore when in my pocket I am constantly aware of it. I am just too hard on things to risk an heirloom daily. Fossil is good enough for the likes o' me.

Indiana Charles · Post by **Indiana Charles** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:00 am

I like the choice of the Strauss watch replica as a dress watch but I think Indy would have worn something like this in the field.

http://www.smithsonianstore.com/catalog ... ctId=12098

Australiana Jones · Post by **Australiana Jones** » Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:03 am

If Indy were to wear a watch

I don't think he'd wear one, he would have a pocket watch probably with a compass

but my choice would be an Omega Seamaster, there brilliant

LeatherneckJones · Post by **LeatherneckJones** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:53 pm

Orvis currently offers this watch. Kind of cool, I think!

http://orvis.com/store/product_choice.a ... at_id=6798

JEEP · Post by **JEEP** » Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:59 pm

I believe that Indy would carry a pocket watch with a lid and a sturdy chain - either in his pocket or in his MK VII bag.

I bought this brushed stainless-steel one with a push-to-open lid, three years ago, because I kept breaking my wristband watches in the field on excavations. This watch has yet to let me down - and I carry it in my trousers' pocket every day.

I guess I ought to replace the chain with a better quality one soon.

/Jakob