bullwhip vs. neighbourhood

Darth V.A.D.E.R · Post by **Darth V.A.D.E.R** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:25 am

Hi guys!
I cracking with MY whip on MY yard and MY neighbour
is mad from it!
Yesterday I was cracking too and he say he will call police
when I dont stop!
Someone with same problem?
Some tips for other cracking areas?
thanks guys...now I will go makes some loud cracks...

Regards
Darth

Feraud · Post by **Feraud** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:32 am

Similarly, I would be upset if my neighbor were setting off firecrackers in their yard. I am trying to make a comparison in the noise they produce.

Not sure about local laws but things to consider are the time of day and type of neighborhood you live in.

Are the homes close together? Are you cracking late in the day? Weekdays, weekends only? Is it a generally quite area?

I think having a consideration for the 'bigger picture' is important.

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:44 am

In my opinion, it's always good to get along with neighbors. If you look at it from their side, it is annoying to hear shot gun blasts - and yes, it especially annoying when cruisers come out to investigate the noise. Whips do sound a lot like gun shots.

My feeling is that I go out of my way to NOT annoy people. Remember part of whip cracking is to put a good face to the sport. I find out of the way places and still I get police cruisers checking out the noise. I always park the attitude and open up a nice friendly conversation. I talk to them about the sport of whip cracking and the organizations like the Wild West Arts Club (WWAC) and the "Whip Enthusiasts". The WWAC literally has saved the dying wild west arts of - trick roping, gun spinning, knife and axe throwing and yes whip crakcing. Whip Enthusiasts is international where Sebastian, who heads up that organization, is trying to positively promote the art of whip cracking to a more wholesome family sport. His goal is to try to make whip cracking an Olympic sport.

When the local LE, hear me talk on and on the passion of the sport, they just back away or get engaged in further conversation. I know I have rambled a bit, but I would really go out of your way getting along with your neighbors. Ideally I would find a remote spot in the park - away from dogs and kids and just practice away. The best place is to find an indoor barn or gym with high ceilings.

Take care...
-Sergei

Darth V.A.D.E.R · Post by **Darth V.A.D.E.R** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:07 pm

Feraud wrote:Similarly, I would be upset if my neighbor were setting off firecrackers in their yard. I am trying to make a comparison in the noise they produce.

Not sure about local laws but things to consider are the time of day and type of neighborhood you live in.

Are the homes close together? Are you cracking late in the day? Weekdays, weekends only? Is it a generally quite area?

I think having a consideration for the 'bigger picture' is important.

Hi Feraud!
Yeah homes are close together...
No,I dont cracking late in the day...I prefer afternoons...
Weekdays more...weekends sometimes...
It is not quite area....big road is nearly to my house...

Regards

Darth V.A.D.E.R · Post by **Darth V.A.D.E.R** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:10 pm

Sergei wrote:In my opinion, it's always good to get along with neighbors. If you look at it from their side, it is annoying to hear shot gun blasts - and yes, it especially annoying when cruisers come out to investigate the noise. Whips do sound a lot like gun shots.

My feeling is that I go out of my way to NOT annoy people. Remember part of whip cracking is to put a good face to the sport. I find out of the way places and still I get police cruisers checking out the noise. I always park the attitude and open up a nice friendly conversation. I talk to them about the sport of whip cracking and the organizations like the Wild West Arts Club (WWAC) and the "Whip Enthusiasts". The WWAC literally has saved the dying wild west arts of - trick roping, gun spinning, knife and axe throwing and yes whip crakcing. Whip Enthusiasts is international where Sebastian, who heads up that organization, is trying to positively promote the art of whip cracking to a more wholesome family sport. His goal is to try to make whip cracking an Olympic sport.

When the local LE, hear me talk on and on the passion of the sport, they just back away or get engaged in further conversation. I know I have rambled a bit, but I would really go out of your way getting along with your neighbors. Ideally I would find a remote spot in the park - away from dogs and kids and just practice away. The best place is to find an indoor barn or gym with high ceilings.

Take care...
-Sergei

Good idea to find gym!:D
thanks!
Regards

Feraud · Post by **Feraud** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 12:19 pm

I think Sergei stated the attitude we should have when cracking whips. Keep in mind a 'good neighbor' policy is best for everyone in any neighborhood.

Consideration for your environment is the best approach.
I live in New York and participate in hunting and shooting sports. Though it is my "Right" to bear arms, I am aware(and responsible) about how I transport firearms and how I conduct myself when people recognize me as a firearm owner.

Sergei pointed out putting a 'good face' on the sport. Remember this sport is a minority. The police might think not twice about telling people not to play baseball on their property but would see little reason to stop someone from cracking a 6-12 foot bullwhip if people complain!

As Sergei said, finding an isolated, enclosed space is best.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:35 pm

I don't own a whip... is it so loud and noisy when you crack it???

Colby · Post by **Colby** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:38 pm

I used to own a 10 footer cowhide whip and when I would do overhead cracks it would sound like a shotgun then it would echo out into the woods.

You have your normal cracks that just kind of pop and sound like firecrackers. Then you have your big booming cracks that frighten animals away.

IllinoisJones · Post by **IllinoisJones** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:46 pm

My neighbor's never complain about my whipcracking, in fact they come out and watch me practice. I think the mentality of te nighborhood is an impotant factor, a well as the type of crack you are doing. Illinois

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:50 pm

First thing that popped into my head is that your neighborhood should have a designated time for quiet time, which in my neigborhood starts at about 9pm and goes until 8 am. In between you can do pretty much what you want, at least here. I'd think your area has to have something similar and that your neighbor will have to bite the bullet on this even if he calls police.

I've always respected my neigbors and they respect me, but my yard is mine and they understand that if I wanna crack the whip in my own yard, I'm free to do so within that quiet time. Some people can't go to a gym or find that nice, private, open practice area so the backyard is it.
I think your neighbor is gunna have to put up with it.
Maybe you can just tell him you don't wanna tick anyone off and ask if there is a time he prefers you to crack. Maybe try to work something out. If he's an arse, then screw him and do what you do. Nothing more you can do then.

Good luck.

GraveRobberGreg · Post by **GraveRobberGreg** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:22 pm

Bufflehead and I were cracking in my yard and we wanted more room so we packed up our stuff and went to the local park/playground/ball fields. They always have a lot of open fields. Plus you sometimes get a lot of people watching. The bigger the crowd the better it is.

As for the neighboro ask him if he is into the Indy movies and if he would like taking a crack at the whip. You never know he might like it and join you from time to time. Theres always a chance.

Darth V.A.D.E.R · Post by **Darth V.A.D.E.R** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:42 pm

Thanks guys!
I will try something....
GraveRobberGreg I dont think my neighbor is in Indy movies...
I think he only like his old car called VOLGA(old,bad and stinking russian car...)

Feraud · Post by **Feraud** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:46 pm

Try to find a common ground with him somehow. Maybe you could tell him how you father or grandfather used to own a Volga and use a bullwhip?..

Don't laugh, I am making this up as I go!

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 4:52 pm

Great topic, Darth V.A.D.E.R. !

This has been a concern of mine as well.
Although my neighbors have not complained to me personally, I have heard one of them [a few houses down] yelling in a grouchy tone ["... what the ___?"]).

Therefore, my strategy is to only crack my whip about 5 minutes a day.
It is enough time for me to practice my cracks (I am only proficient at 3 types so far anyway ...

).
In addition, I never whip before 10am or after 8pm.
They seem to be getting used to it (and the "important" neighbors so to speak (the ones on either side of me) do not seem to mind 5 minutes a day.
As far as parks (in SoCal at least), I think LE would arrive almost immediately here.
(BTW, it has been my experience that LE in SoCal here are not understanding, friendly, or interested in conversation [as mentioned above]).

Therefore, until I find a friend with a barn or private ranch - it looks like I will cracking 5 minutes a day in the backyard.

Best Regards,

GraveRobberGreg · Post by **GraveRobberGreg** » Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:08 pm

I had Buffelhead come over not too long ago and we were both cracking at the same time and my nieghboros didnt say a word. I was trying to get on the nerves of the nieghboro right nexr door but it didnt work. Oh well maybe when Curator Rick, Bufflehead, Bink and anyone else close by come over we can get several whips going at once maybe then I will make enough noise.

Bufflehead understands what i'm saying

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:17 am

The one time I've cracked my whip at ungodly hours was last year when the dogs from next door had treed a raccoon or something. THey were making this awful racket at about 5 AM. I threw on some boots, and stalked out to the edge of the woods. Two or three cracks of my Strain shut them up and fast, (along with my rather colorful and rather loud language at the time.)

I tend to try to be fairly polite about it. I like my neigbors for the most part, and they thinl the whole whip thing is pretty cool, (I think they were relieved that it wasn't the semi-auto pistol they thought it was, when I was outside doing volleys.)

The field beside out house however, serves as a pasture for three horses. At least one of these tends to be a little skittish anyway, so when I know they're around, I tend to lay off the bullwhip, or at least aim the noise the opposite direction.

So, there ARE advantages to living out in the middle of nowhere where the cable companies won't go, and the roads are gravel ;-)

Darth V.A.D.E.R · Post by **Darth V.A.D.E.R** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 7:57 am

Feraud wrote:Try to find a common ground with him somehow. Maybe you could tell him how you father or grandfather used to own a Volga and use a bullwhip?..
Don't laugh, I am making this up as I go!

Yeah it will be very funny to see how my neighboro face looks
when I will talk to him about my grandfather and bullwhip...

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:43 pm

Darth V.A.D.E.R wrote:
Feraud wrote:Try to find a common ground with him somehow. Maybe you could tell him how you father or grandfather used to own a Volga and use a bullwhip?..
Don't laugh, I am making this up as I go!
Yeah it will be very funny to see how my neighboro face looks
when I will talk to him about my grandfather and bullwhip...

Hey, it's not completely far-fetched...check this out:
viewtopic.php?t=11256&highlight=grandfather+whip

Feraud · Post by **Feraud** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:52 pm

I love those types of stories.

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:20 pm

erri_wan wrote:I don't own a whip... is it so loud and noisy when you crack it???

Yes it can be very loud. Essentially you're creating a sonic boom, where the cracker is traveling faster than the speed of sound. I was out at my dad's once cracking. My dad lives out in the country and there's a whole other empty lot between him and his neighbor. This neighbor came out to see what was going on because he thought someone was shooting a 12 gauge gun. My dad just told him it was his daughter cracking her whip.

racerx · Post by **racerx** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:01 am

One thing I've found that seems to convey whipcracking in a good light or a more constructive one,(that way your not just making loud noises) is haveing a target holder and cutting targets , expoding apples trimming pasta and such.

Then people stop not only to see where the noise is coming from but also to watch with interest to see if you can actually hit what your aiming at , along with the effect that your cracker has on the target while breaking the sound barrier, not to mention to see how your salad turns out

.

I've found that to be good for breaking the ice with neighibors and passers by.

Jim J.

Colby · Post by **Colby** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 12:02 am

Indiana Texas-girl wrote:
erri_wan wrote:I don't own a whip... is it so loud and noisy when you crack it???
Yes it can be very loud. Essentially you're creating a sonic boom, where the cracker is traveling faster than the speed of sound. I was out at my dad's once cracking. My dad lives out in the country and there's a whole other empty lot between him and his neighbor. This neighbor came out to see what was going on because he thought someone was shooting a 12 gauge gun. My dad just told him it was his daughter cracking her whip.

Ahh but such a satisfying sound when you pull of a crack like that for the first few times successfully.

Darth V.A.D.E.R · Post by **Darth V.A.D.E.R** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:57 am

Feraud wrote:I love those types of stories.

I agree.Is very familiar....

Regards
Darth

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:18 am

racerx wrote:One thing I've found that seems to convey whipcracking in a good light or a more constructive one,(that way your not just making loud noises) is haveing a target holder and cutting targets , expoding apples trimming pasta and such.

Then people stop not only to see where the noise is coming from but also to watch with interest to see if you can actually hit what your aiming at , along with the effect that your cracker has on the target while breaking the sound barrier, not to mention to see how your salad turns out

I've found that to be good for breaking the ice with neighibors and passers by.

That's how my neighbors really first saw me working with a whip. I had a target stand sitting out, and I was cutting playing cards with my 8' Strain. They were going down the driveway, (that runs past our house. We share the driveway,) and paused to see what I was doing. I finished cutting the cards I was working on, (didn't really notice they were there.) and then turned around because I heard applause.

They asked a few questions, and I explained a little. No problems at all since. They thought it was pretty cool!

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:23 am

Indiana Texas-girl wrote:
erri_wan wrote:I don't own a whip... is it so loud and noisy when you crack it???
Yes it can be very loud. Essentially you're creating a sonic boom, where the cracker is traveling faster than the speed of sound. I was out at my dad's once cracking. My dad lives out in the country and there's a whole other empty lot between him and his neighbor. This neighbor came out to see what was going on because he thought someone was shooting a 12 gauge gun. My dad just told him it was his daughter cracking her whip.

Did you know that a whip was the first man-made invention to break the speed of sound? It's true! -You've probably heard that already.

I like to crack my whip on the roof deck and to hear it echo off buildings a block away. You know it's loud when you hear it echoing over the noise of a city! I wonder what people down on the street think??? Actually, probably nothing; the one thing about city-people is that we aren't really concerned about sudden loud noises. We're conditioned to tune these things out!

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:24 am

Bufflehead and I were cracking in my yard and we wanted more room so we packed up our stuff and went to the local park/playground/ball fields. They always have a lot of open fields.

I've been cracking my whips for years and have never had one complaint from the neighbors (nor a visit from the cops). There is an elementary school with a huge playground field about one minute from my house, and I sometimes go there on weekends to get some cracking in. It's especially nice when the weather is good, and nobody is ever there.

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:34 am

I've had one police cruiser visit - he was on patrol and thought he heard firecrackers (which are illegal in my city) so he came by to check it out, and when he saw me with my fedora and my whip he laughed and took it easy and drove off.

Where can you get target stands and stuff? And how do you cut things? I'm not very good at aiming - maybe if I had an actual stand. Gosh... I'm starting to get bored with my whip...

I need to learn more things to do.

In Christ,
Shane

Harrison_Davies · Post by **Harrison_Davies** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:46 am

During my life I've done many jobs, one of which was a Private Investigator. When on stakeout I would inform the LE that I was in the area and exactly what I was doing. That way I built up a relationship with them, and they knew that if they got a report of a suspicious character lurking in the bushes they knew it was me, and they always had a direct contact with me to confim.

Perhaps informing your local LE that you are in the area practicing the sport of whip cracking, where you will be and for how long. That way no mistakes can be made.

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:51 am

I think it's a good idea to inform local law enforcement of anything like this that you do. When I'm shooting video in a public place, where I'm staging a scene of some sort, (especially action,) I always tell the local police, and if possible try to have one present.

When you've got a guy running around with a blank firing gun, it's a good thing to have the police there to put people at ease so that minimizes the 911 calls, (plus, if the police are aware of the situation, the 911 call can be handled quickly with them saying, "yes, we are aware of the situation. They're shooting a movie there. There is an officer on site. It's not real. Thank you for your concern..."

If you're in a public place making sounds that are ANYTHING like gunshots or explosions, it's always a good idea. In McFly's case, the officer just laughed and drove off. Sometimes you get a more irate officer, who is annoyed at the initial panic, who will berate you.

As to the stand...

Buddy of mine made a couple for under 20 bucks out of PVC pipe and PVC Electrical conduit and about 15 3-way "T" joints that fit the PVC.

It stands about shoulder height, so it's great for standard height targets.

I thought I had pictures of the whole thing together, but I have it in sections. The base of the monster looks like this.

That center section is the 4 way electrical junction box. The outriggers are for stability, and there are 3-way "T" joints at the ends for weight. The blue bits around the junction box are PVC twist locks that screw into the junction box. The whole thing is held together by pressure and friction. So it breaks down easy.

Now this works as is on carpet and concrete, but for better base stability, you can use those standard, narrow little tent stakes in those two screw holes in the electrical conduit to drive it into the ground. I usually do this.

You put an approximately 4' section of the PVC pipe into that center hole in the conduit for your upright. This puts the target area just a little under shoulder height. Perfect for targeting, (your mileage may vary. You can lengthen or shorten the upright to suit yourself.) That top section is just another 3-way "T" joint with short, (I think they're about 3") sections of PVC pushed into them. It is on this, that you customize your target stands for whatever purpose you need.

For cards:

Just put clothespins in the PVC junctions and clamp cards in them. You can rotate the joints around as well to adjust angle, and you can put them in upright for sidearm and cattleman crack targeting, or you can put them in vertically for circus, overhand and underhand crack targeting.

If you're getting really fancy, you can set up a bunch of those little PVC junctions and do candle snuffing.

The larger sized Mennorah candles that you can find cheap at almost any grocery store work well for that, plus, they're just parrafin, so no colored wax stains on your fall!

All broken down into it's separate parts, you can fit the whole thing into a medium sized backpack, (minus the upright, and we're working on that with just putting a two-way junction collar in the middle of the upright.)

Before you ask, it's not incredibly solid. If you smack the target stand with your whip, the stand WILL fly apart.

Believe it or not, this is a GOOD thing. When you're throwing a pretty powerful kinetic wave down a length of leather that is getting more and more concentrated as it rolls down the thong, the last thing you really want is for that energy to dead end in the Fall. Most folks I know who build target stands use microphone stands and big clamps, and then cover the stand over with foam to absorb the shock from mishaps the whip, otherwise their falls get torn apart. This makes it bulky, and hard to adjust, (invariably, the pressure locks get covered in the foam somehow, and you have to pull it aside to make adjustments.)

With this, the energy hits the PVC and blows it apart, dispursing the shock. Remember, the goal is the target, not the stand. If you hit the card right, you'll cut right through it without disturbing the stand or any other target mounted to it. And there is something incredibly motivating about putting the bloody thing back together when you smack it by accident. There are pieces that wear out, (I've had to replace the blue twist lock piece that connects the upright to the base,) but as you can see, the whole darn thing is completely modular, and the parts are CHEAP. Pick up several extras, and you're good to go. They're also standard and easy to find. Just go to Lowes or Home Depot if you need to do repairs.

It gives you instant feedback as to how hard you were cracking, and how hard the whip hit the target, so you can learn control that way. Something that I think makes you that much better when you decide to forgo a PVC target stand for a human one.

This is just my buddy Bryian's prototype: Version 0.9 Beta. We took it to Annie Oakley and Canasta thought it was pretty cool and gave us some ideas for version 1.0, and we'd welcome any thoughts anyone else has.

Happy cracking! Hope this helps!

Anyway, I'm off to a machine gun shoot in Kentucky! Have a good weekend, folks!

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:37 pm

Circus Cracks generally, and the forward "overhand" cracks work best for cutting cards held horizontally, (though I also like to cut them with undernand cracks to break up monotony.) For vertical cards, I find that sidearm cracks work best.

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:36 pm

I'm all for starting a new, sticky thread, which describes these cracks here... I'm not sure what the cattleman's crack is, what the "overhand" forward is (unless it's the same as a forward throw), or this circus crack.

Have we done a thread like this before? This is already kind of going off topic, but I think we could use a thread like that. It could be done in sections, one post per type of crack!

Oh, TheFish - AWESOME stand tutorial! Brilliant!
On topic - build one of those stands so people will think you're doing cool things... also, learn the cattleman's and circus cracks, so you look cool, too.

In Christ,
Shane

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:42 pm

IndyMcFly wrote:Where can you get target stands and stuff? And how do you cut things?

For $60 you can get a break down stand made by a gentleman in our local whip enthusiast group.
http://hometown.aol.com/jdewhips/page6.html

He also has non-break down stands (the type I own), but I would imagine the shipping would be high on those:
http://hometown.aol.com/jdewhips/page2.html

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:08 am

thefish, THANKS for elaborating on that how-to for making a breakdown target-stand. THAT looks like something that ought to be stuck in the archive!

Post by **BullWhipBorton** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:17 am

Interesting topic, I’ve been pretty lucky over the years with neighbors. Not many complaints that I know of but I try to be considerate of them. You’ve gotten great advice here Darth. Best chance is to try and have to talk to him and explain your situation, see if there’s a time when he’s not around that would be more convenient to crack your whip. Hopefully your neighbor won’t be unreasonable. I suggest checking into local noise ordinance laws in your part of the world to see if he has a valid complaint and what he can do about it and what laws are on your side. Most likely as long as your not making a racket too early in the morning or after dark and you are on your own property, he’s just going to have to live with it. However, as you’re representing the sport of whip cracking you want to put on a positive image, try to be as diplomatic as possible. Good luck. As for other places I can recommend practicing at, if you can find a empty park those are usually good. Gyms are sometimes are accommodating, I remember one member used to practice in the indoor racquet ball courts at his local gym, lot of space, smooth floors and the room was sound proof.

I like that target stand you and your buddy came up with Dan (aka TheFish). It’s a good design and I really like the way yours can double as a candleholder, I am going to have to try that. I built a similar one out of some bamboo and some scrap wood a while back although it’s not so much a take down version. Once you all get the idea how these target holders are built, if you’re a do it yourselfer and have a few tools & lumber you can build one pretty easily and inexpensively.

Dan