I don't like the look of my shoulders in this jacket, but I really like the rest of it
There are more pictures of me and Nick in here:
viewtopic.php?t=14201
well worn predistressed cowhide outsideshot
Moderators: Indiana Jeff, Mike, Indydawg
well worn predistressed cowhide outsideshot
Theses pictures where taken today by Nick, so I can finaly show you my jacket in sunlight:
I don't like the look of my shoulders in this jacket, but I really like the rest of it
There are more pictures of me and Nick in here:
viewtopic.php?t=14201
I don't like the look of my shoulders in this jacket, but I really like the rest of it
There are more pictures of me and Nick in here:
viewtopic.php?t=14201
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Indiana Texas-girl
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Texas Raider
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Last Crusader
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Last Crusader
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I hope this is not too off-topic:
The german pilots had not been equipped with jackets. There was no official jacket for them. Every pilot had used his own leather jacket. These jackets originally were known as "cyclist jackets" for motorbikers which were created in the late 30s. Although the zipper was already invented it was not used for leather jackets untill then. The pilots choose the jackets with zippers because it was quicker to open/close, it was a better wind protection and zippers allowed the jackets to be worn very close to the body in the small cockpits.
Of course the jacket in your pics could be produced in the time of WW2 but its design is very untypical and old fashioned for that time.
The favourite jacket of my collection is a "Hartman jacket" from 1942 of an unknown producer. Maybe there is a tag inside your jacket which showes producer and year?
Anyway, your jacket is a beauty. Do you still wear it?
Regards
The german pilots had not been equipped with jackets. There was no official jacket for them. Every pilot had used his own leather jacket. These jackets originally were known as "cyclist jackets" for motorbikers which were created in the late 30s. Although the zipper was already invented it was not used for leather jackets untill then. The pilots choose the jackets with zippers because it was quicker to open/close, it was a better wind protection and zippers allowed the jackets to be worn very close to the body in the small cockpits.
Of course the jacket in your pics could be produced in the time of WW2 but its design is very untypical and old fashioned for that time.
The favourite jacket of my collection is a "Hartman jacket" from 1942 of an unknown producer. Maybe there is a tag inside your jacket which showes producer and year?
Anyway, your jacket is a beauty. Do you still wear it?
Regards
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FLATHEAD
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Your jacket is more likely a WWI pilots jacket than a WWII jacket.
Most WWI leather jackets had buttons like yours. The american
A-1 is a good example. It has a small stand-up collar, and
buttons down the front. The WWI planes did not have
a lot of controls to get caught on like the later planes of the 40's did. They
also did not go as fast, or fly as high as the later WWII planes, and the
need for a better designed leather jacket was not needed yet.
As planes got more complicated, and had more and more controls,
the need for better designed jackets came into place. Once the need for escape
gear came about, the leather jackets with buttons were replaced
by jackets with zippers because the buttons interfered
with the seat harnesses in the planes, as well as any parachutes and other gear
that they needed incase they had to bail out. If you look at WWII jackets
of that time, most of them did not have any pockets or other items down the center
for just this reason. They usually had smaller pockets off to the sides.
If your plane was shot, and you were heading toward the ground, the
last thing you needed to think about was having your buttons on your
jacket get caught on something, and prevent you from getting out of
the plane before it crashed.
Also, the collars of most WWII flight jackets had either snaps, or some kind
of latch that would hold them down, and prevent them from flapping
around the pilots neck. Either that, or the collars were very small, such
as the "Hartman jacket". The A-2 is an example of the american jacket
that incorporated snaps to keep the collar down during flight. It was also
one of the first commisioned AAF jackets with a zipper.
Your jacket could very well have been worn by a German pilot, but I am
pretty sure it would have been quickly replaced by a jacket that was
better suited for being in the tighter, more confined space of a more
modern plane at that time.
Its a great jacket!! It very cool to see it in such good shape, and
wearable at that!!
Flathead
Most WWI leather jackets had buttons like yours. The american
A-1 is a good example. It has a small stand-up collar, and
buttons down the front. The WWI planes did not have
a lot of controls to get caught on like the later planes of the 40's did. They
also did not go as fast, or fly as high as the later WWII planes, and the
need for a better designed leather jacket was not needed yet.
As planes got more complicated, and had more and more controls,
the need for better designed jackets came into place. Once the need for escape
gear came about, the leather jackets with buttons were replaced
by jackets with zippers because the buttons interfered
with the seat harnesses in the planes, as well as any parachutes and other gear
that they needed incase they had to bail out. If you look at WWII jackets
of that time, most of them did not have any pockets or other items down the center
for just this reason. They usually had smaller pockets off to the sides.
If your plane was shot, and you were heading toward the ground, the
last thing you needed to think about was having your buttons on your
jacket get caught on something, and prevent you from getting out of
the plane before it crashed.
Also, the collars of most WWII flight jackets had either snaps, or some kind
of latch that would hold them down, and prevent them from flapping
around the pilots neck. Either that, or the collars were very small, such
as the "Hartman jacket". The A-2 is an example of the american jacket
that incorporated snaps to keep the collar down during flight. It was also
one of the first commisioned AAF jackets with a zipper.
Your jacket could very well have been worn by a German pilot, but I am
pretty sure it would have been quickly replaced by a jacket that was
better suited for being in the tighter, more confined space of a more
modern plane at that time.
Its a great jacket!! It very cool to see it in such good shape, and
wearable at that!!
Flathead
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Last Crusader
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FLATHEAD
- Professor of Archaeology
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No, no expert, just a member of one of the best forums for all info on
WWII and other vintage jackets. Here is the site:
http://cornellsurgery.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/
Are you a member there? These guys know their stuff when it come to
all things leather and vintage! Just like our very own Indy site!!
You can learn so much from people who have alot of years experience
with the things they love.
Flathead
WWII and other vintage jackets. Here is the site:
http://cornellsurgery.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/
Are you a member there? These guys know their stuff when it come to
all things leather and vintage! Just like our very own Indy site!!
You can learn so much from people who have alot of years experience
with the things they love.
Flathead
Well, I agree with you that the shape was not modern in ww2 at all, but:
1. this jacket actually HAS snaps on the collar and on the sleves
2. the sleve lining is made of a black,strong and thin material which I have never seen of its kind on an Uniform or on cloths before the 40's (it is the original lining by the way)
3. 2 experts agreed that this must be a jacket from the world war 2 period, probably worn as a flight jacket (one of them use to collect german militaria since 1945 and sells it in his shop since 40 years ago), the other is a mid 30's Man which got a speccial interrest of Luftwaffe gear. I'm not an expert but I use to collect german militaria since 7 years, too
4. This point could be wrong, but I guess it was more likely for a ww1 pilot to wear a jacket which covered his hips in a windy old plane. This jacket never did
I can't tell if this jacket ever was worn by a pilot, but I still think that this is a ww2 jacket (and it is my 5. flying jacket which I date to ww2)
Well, I really would love to wear this jacket but the smell of cellar and the rough distressing in some arreas are to strong, so it's on ebay right now
1. this jacket actually HAS snaps on the collar and on the sleves
2. the sleve lining is made of a black,strong and thin material which I have never seen of its kind on an Uniform or on cloths before the 40's (it is the original lining by the way)
3. 2 experts agreed that this must be a jacket from the world war 2 period, probably worn as a flight jacket (one of them use to collect german militaria since 1945 and sells it in his shop since 40 years ago), the other is a mid 30's Man which got a speccial interrest of Luftwaffe gear. I'm not an expert but I use to collect german militaria since 7 years, too
4. This point could be wrong, but I guess it was more likely for a ww1 pilot to wear a jacket which covered his hips in a windy old plane. This jacket never did
I can't tell if this jacket ever was worn by a pilot, but I still think that this is a ww2 jacket (and it is my 5. flying jacket which I date to ww2)
Well, I really would love to wear this jacket but the smell of cellar and the rough distressing in some arreas are to strong, so it's on ebay right now
Re: well worn predistressed cowhide outsideshot
My bomber jacket that I use as an Indy substitute until I get a Wested does the same thing. Its just a tad too wide in the shoulders for me and the excess kind of hangs off.BreinederIndy wrote:
I don't like the look of my shoulders in this jacket, but I really like the rest of it
I always hated that too.
Anyway, considering that the Luftwaffe didn't have a standard issue jacket, its entirely possible that the jacket is WWII vintage.-
Last Crusader
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I know the forum but I´m no member.FLATHEAD wrote:No, no expert, just a member of one of the best forums for all info on
WWII and other vintage jackets. Here is the site:
http://cornellsurgery.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/
Are you a member there? These guys know their stuff when it come to
all things leather and vintage! Just like our very own Indy site!!
You can learn so much from people who have alot of years experience
with the things they love.
Flathead
My father collects historical and classic leather aviator jackets for over 30 years now and I would call him an expert. I´ve joined him in this hobby some years ago and I added some nice pieces to our collection. We have original ones and reproductions of classic jackets. We have about 25 of them.
Thats great that you and your dad enjoying the same hobby
Well, I put this jacket on ebay.de if you're might be interessted.
Back to my Indy jacket:
@colbi: it's good to hear that I'm not the only one having problems with this
Thank you for your compliments. As I mentioned it in another thread I did a little job with antique finish, a liquid leather handcrafts aid to let the surface of leather apear... well, of course antique. And it darkened the jacket, too although I might apply another coat of it.
And I do wear this jacket since a few years now.
Well, I put this jacket on ebay.de if you're might be interessted.
Back to my Indy jacket:
@colbi: it's good to hear that I'm not the only one having problems with this
Thank you for your compliments. As I mentioned it in another thread I did a little job with antique finish, a liquid leather handcrafts aid to let the surface of leather apear... well, of course antique. And it darkened the jacket, too although I might apply another coat of it.
And I do wear this jacket since a few years now.
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Last Crusader
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Indiana George
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