Why not Wested?

Rusty Jones · Post by **Rusty Jones** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:19 pm

Hopefully I'm not overlooking some fact that makes this a somewhat stupid question, but why would anyone get a jacket other than Wested?

It seems like the same price or much cheaper than other jackets on the market, with more customized measurements and personal requests, and it's made by guy who did it for the movies...

is the fact that the Wested is delivered slower its only disadvantage or am I missing something?

(Just got my new Wested Raiders a week or so ago, fits great, just how I wanted it, with indy pants/shirt for just about as much as the pricelisted Flightsuites jacket on the jacket webpage. To me, it seems unspeakably worth the wait...)

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:52 am

Well, these days Wested is "THE" choice again. Some people go for US Wings for the mil spec (military specification) construction and the tougher leathers. Some people still go for Flight Suits (now Gibson and Barnes) though I have no clue why.
Wested has only ever had two competitors that carried any weight around here, Wings and FS. Back in "the day" Wested still had a few very minor details that were not fully accurate which put them on par with Wings, and Wings had the wide range of tough leathers. The FS "expedition" was supposedly based on an actual screen used jacket, and that was a huge plus to many. And they had a wide range of leathers. But with much furious debate over the tale of these origins (see the "Jacket Wars" posts in Lao Che's Table) and the fact that the jacket costs over $400.00 AND is no longer custom made, they fell out of favor almost entirely. US Wings is pretty darn close to that $400.00 mark, too. Wested has always been "THE" jacket, custom made, at a great price. And they're shipping times have radically improved over the past few years. They also now offer the same wide array of leathers that others offer, too.
You'll see a few people go for other jackets now and then, mostly due to preference I guess. But Wested is back on top, right where they belong.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:52 am

Hi Rusty,
Yep - non-Wested jacket owner present and accounted for ...

The reasons I purchased a Gibson & Barnes (formerly "Flightsuits") were twofold:
1- I had not yet joined COW.
2- It was right down the road from me (what can I say - I was simply enthralled with it - I still am).

Despite G&B's reputation for less than stellar customer service, I experienced great service
(not at all knowledgeable - but extremely friendly and patient sales staff).

Anyway, I do plan to purchase a Wested someday.
It has many custom features and from everything I've read and the myriad of pics I've seen posted,
Wested jackets are superb in every way.

Until then, I am extremely content with my dark goat G&B.
It's the best leather jacket I have ever owned and pure quality gear that I wear and appreciate every day.

Best Regards,

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:02 am

Spooky,
I know I should do a search but feeling lazy!

Any pics?

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:37 am

Kt Templar wrote:Spooky,
I know I should do a search but feeling lazy! Any pics?

Sure Kt Templar,

Front View
Back View

Best Regards,

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:56 am

Thanks Spooky!

That's a nice jacket, colour appears like it might be closer to the dark brown than the authentic (which I like). And the collar shape is a little different to the Wested Raiders (Is it more like a TOD? It doesn't bother me anyway).

But it is very nice, if you take all things into consideration time cost, closeness to where you live etc, it looks like a great choice.

What leather is it?

What is the final price including tax and shipping to the US?

KT

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:11 am

Interesting question, Rusty. Out of respect for Agent5's and Fedora's observations about the similar progression of hats, I won't even try to answer, owning only a Wested.

But take a look here...the answers to your question might be similar to the answers here, in a hat thread from a couple months ago:
viewtopic.php?t=13289

(Oh...only one thing to add...the infamous 'Jacket Wars' which occurred years ago (before me, too) were apparently much more intense than the hat controversies. 'Nuff said.

Note that there are still many happy FS owners, possibly not posting so much about FS these days due to current Wested popularity (see hat thread again for similarities), that like the jacket for various reasons, and might choose one again over Wested for those reasons. Not being one of them, I won't guess. They'll be around sooner or later.

Post by **Ken** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:34 am

There is an age old debate between which is more accurate. Wested created the jackets for the films. Flightsuits designed the Expedition by reverse engineering a screen used jacket.

Some people are very loyal to one side or the other in this and have very strong opinions.

Ken

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:05 am

I have a Wested, which I absolutely love. One thing that I do like better about the G&B Expedition is the scalloped pockets. If I could get a Wested with the scalloped pockets it would be the best of both worlds.

Regards,
SJ

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:14 am

I think you guys should stick to the Members Only jackets from the 80's. ::ducks::

bink

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:32 pm

Yes, there have been jacket wars in the past unfortunately over a simple thing, such as a "leather jacket." But, the question asked in this thread was asking: "why not a Wested?" So, this is just "my" personal" answer:

I love Wested, and own a few of their jackets, but there were just a few things that I felt weren't quite "screen-accurate." When I wanted to order an Indy jacket, I had to do a lot of "research" to help make my jacket screen-accurate. Only when I finally placed my order, it arrived with something that I had left out/forgot to ask for. No biggie, but for a picky Indy jacket collector, it was something that nagged me, lol.

Not only that, but a few (not all) of my jackets from Wested began to have some of the stitching coming undone. This wasn't what I had hoped for in what I had envisioned as an all round' rough n' tough "Indy jacket."

Plus, by the time I had bought the jacket, paid for any of the extra costs, example: paying for the extra 2-piece under-arm gussets, paid for the shipping/handling/custom fees I practically reached just about $380 for my Wested jacket. For a couple of bucks more I could have went with the Gibson-Barnes Expedition.

What I like about the Gibson-Barnes jacket is that:
1.) Naturally "screen-accurate" without having to do all of that previous "research" to help make it screen-accurate (it naturally comes screen-accurate which is what I like),
2.) all of the leathers, and most importantly, the stitching is top-notch. I have NEVER had an Expedition jacket begin to lose some of its stitching.
3.) the jacket is built to meet Military standards
4.) true life Indy jacket
5.) Made right here in the USA to avoid any custom-fees (for those who live in the US)
6.) includes the 2 piece under-arm gussets, scallopped pockets, and underarm elastics as standard with each jacket
7.) Each customer can wear the jacket for up to 6 months, and if you aren't satisfied with it, you may return it for a refund/or exchange it. I know that this is true because not long ago they allowed me to do this for one of my Expedition jackets.

I'm certainly NOT bashing Peter or any Wested jacket for that matter. I love Peter and if I had the opportunity to buy another Wested jacket I would do so in a heartbeat. I have one of his Indy shirts and am about to buy a pair of his Indy pants soon. But, I just think that there are A LOT of positive qualities about the Gibson-Barnes Expedition jacket, including their customer service, that doesn't always get acknowledged.

I love both the Wested and Expedition jacket. Not taking any sides, but just bringing to light a quality manufacturer of our beloved Indy jacket at Gibson-Barnes...
Kind Regards,
Captain D

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:46 pm

I've got a US Wings aniqued Lamb. Why?
1) I was just starting gear collecting.
2) Probably more of a factor, it was at least $100 less than the Wested and from what Captain D said about the price with modifications maybe nearly $200 and the wife wasn't too keen on me paying even $200 for a jacket, let alone nearly $400.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:05 pm

Yes, there have been jacket wars in the past unfortunately over a simple thing, such as a "leather jacket."

I find it quite unreasonable that a heated debate all of the sudden becomes 'jacket wars'. It's almost like it was dubbed that in the press or something. I find it odd that (not just here but all forums) how things get so quickly blown out of proportion. I always say, 'IT'S A FORUM FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!'.

I can understand when people are passionate about their hobbies, like myself, but in the end I always chalk it up to friendly discussion, not an arguement and certainly not a war. It's usually the people who tick you off, not the subject matter. I think it's when the mod's (not just here but all forums) step in is when it usually get's all blown up. Then people are all like, 'Ooohhhh, they had to step in'. If the mod's would just let some of these 'wars' go on they'd eventually burn themselves out. Instead, they usually just jump right in and add more fuel to the fire, also making themselves targets of ridicule and possibly more. There is no room for personal attacks, but if you can have a heated debate keeping it soley on the subject matter, I say why not?

Just my 2 cents.

OK. On the jackets, here's my story and I'm giving you the straight dope.
I have had 4 Westeds over the years and I love em'. I have had propblems with them getting my orders straight and for a guy who's overseas, it can become quite taxing. Ebay, here we come!
Never owned a FS, but I've seen a few in my time, even tried a few on. I just didn't like em' as much as the Wested. It's a much more durable jacket for sure, but I've never thought the Wested was marketed as a 'rough and tough' Indy jacket. If you want rough and tough, get your FS. I've had problems with the FS customer service, but that's just me. I've heard nothing but good about it from others, but that's their bag.
Keep in mind also that the FS was taken from a Raiders STUNT jacket, not a Ford hero jacket. In any case, it was taken from what is now the Wested. Go figure.
My biggest concern is the FS leather which is just too thick to be an authentic Raiders jacket. Wested has the leather just right so it drapes perfectly and feels nice and thin.
Some swear by the FS and I can see why. Some are more interested in durability than looks or total screen accuracy, which is fine. Again, I can understand why, it's just not me. My PERSONAL concern is to get the real deal and I see FS as a replica of the Wested but with upgraded durability.
The FS IS a great jacket, have no doubt about it and it definitley has it's place here, but for me it's Wested all the way. I just wish Wested would take care of making absolutely, positively, with 100% certainty that all the mod's asked for are on the jackets they send out. I've had only one out of four of my Wested's that have had all the details I'd placed on my order. There has always been something wrong with them being able to either take the order with complete accuracy or they just overlook what's on the order sheet while making the jacket. I just don't see how this can be overlooked so much, especially when they offer to pay to have it returned (which is good) and altered if they screwed it up. It seems that the little effort to make sure what was ordered was sent would save them quite a bit of money. I think if that one thing could be cleared up they'd be working to perfection. Besides the jackets orders not being complete I've not had one sigle problem with any of my Westeds to date.
I would like to say though that we are still lucky to have a jacket vendor who will do custom mods to the jackets and puts up with all of our outlandish orders. I think they're the only ones, right?

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:14 pm

Just to poke my nose in here regarding your first paragraph (you KNEW I would, agent5), they were dubbed the 'jacket wars', because all you folks EVER saw was the tip of the iceberg. The ugly behind the scenes emails and PM's that flew during those 'friendly discussions' were down right hair raising. We have those who like friendly debate, and we have/had some zealots who were ready to hunt down the posters involved and burn their houses down. It was unreal!

If a discussion stays friendly and between the ditches, no one ever gets involved (and when they don't we come in and remind folks to play nice), but it goes into a name calling match, then it is stopped. The 'jacket wars' were just that. So were the 'fedora wars'. You guys just don't get to see all the ugliness that happens, and won't either. There's no excuse for it, as agent5 says, as it's just supposed to be a discussion among friends. Those discussions were debates, and then crossed the line, and will long be remembered as such by those of us who got caught in the middle of them as moderators. Many times we TRY to stay out of them to all the fire to burn itself out, but we get PM after PM from folks who take the fight to ugly PM's between themselves, and we start receiving complaints on THAT level.

It's never fun, and quite frankly, I'M getting a bit tired of that old saw of 'moderators get involved before they need to' as well.

There's MY 2 cents worth, plus change.

Ok, back to your discussion...

Regards! Michaelson

Minnesota Jones · Post by **Minnesota Jones** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:42 pm

I currently have two jackets (had three) - a USWings Goat and an Expo Goat. They're great. Now I don't own a Wested (yet). Hopefully when Peter comes to the QM this year, he'll have his tape measure...

and I can order one in person.

I believe competition only helps our hobby. Look at all the great fedoras nowadays. That's from more and more vendors and each one having to produce a better product. We NEVER had it this good a few years ago, when all there was in fedoras was HJ, a few Millers, the PB Custom, and the Dorfman/Stetsons.

Same with the jackets. USWings and Flightsuits are both US made, which is important for some people. Both are military spec and both are great jackets. Now Wested is British made, a great jacket, and custom made to order. And of course made by the man who made the jackets in the movies as well! A TON of people love them to pieces and I've seen some wonderful Westeds in my day. Can't wait to finally meet the man himself and put my order in too.

I do agree with Agent 5 that this is just a hobby for most of us. It should be fun. That some people get so nuts about it surprises me even to this day. You'd be amazed some of the "battles" here over crown height, taper, X-box stitching, D-rings vs. Rectangular sliders, even what color the Pan-Am Clipper fedora was...

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 5:40 pm

Okay, mea culpa, that's the last time I say 'jacket wars' in a crowded forum (especially before everyone has had their requisite intake of coffee or beer, depending on your timezone).

From now on I will say, "I hear they are both nice."

Here...I'll start now.

I hear they are both nice. Nothing to add.

J

EDIT: You know I really can't stop there, right?

Guys, I have a LOT of respect for all of you. I did not mean to derail the conversation by saying...er...that thing from the past. I value all your opinions, and I've learned something about the past in this thread, so I really appreciate your inputs. Rusty, sorry to have muddied the waters a bit. I was just trying to keep you from opening up the can of worms accidentally...apparently by busting it open myself.

Rusty Jones · Post by **Rusty Jones** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:41 am

Wow, thanks for the great response guys! Really helps a new guy like me understand the situation and the "road before I turned on it"

I'm SUPER happy with my Wested, but I can't wait to find (and ebay) the Ark or Grail so I can afford Jackets from the other makers too :c)

Sergei · Post by **Sergei** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:48 am

The "Jacket Wars" also predate COW - circa the year 2000. It occurred during the time when "indyfan" was the forum for all fans - and COW .... well became the forum for gear heads, when we became the major irritants on annoying discussions about pocket placement, Mick Jagger Gussets, pleat depth, pleats actually opening and closing much to the consternation of non-gearheads. COW formed because? Well we rubbed the other fans the wrong way - another topic. I must say this forum was formed from the great "jacket wars".

But I do admire the self-policing on this thread. Good conversation on both ends of the aisle. Choices, options, etc. are always good. There is always room for more vendors.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:18 am

That is extremely interesting, Sergei.
COW prehistory ... I'd love to learn more about the evolution of COW sometime.

Best Regards,

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:11 am

Spooky, have you seen IndyFrench's 'The History Of IndyGear' threads over in The Archives?
viewforum.php?f=25

They are in four parts (I-IV), and are the stickies at the top of that forum.

They are excellent...perhaps intentionally vague in one or two places where it was prudent not to 're-ruffle' feathers, but very informative.

J

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:51 am

Sergei wrote:The "Jacket Wars" also predate COW - circa the year 2000. .

Maybe we should term that period of development 'Calf'?

Regards! Michaelson

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:29 am

Michaelson wrote:
Sergei wrote:The "Jacket Wars" also predate COW - circa the year 2000. .
Maybe we should term that period of development 'Calf'?
Regards! Michaelson

Club Alf?

I don't even like cats.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 10:32 am

Regards! Michaelson

Feraud · Post by **Feraud** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:00 am

It is the Wested for me! Of course I have never owned a jacket by the other vendors...

I would love to see and try on a couple of the other vendors jackets.
Competition is the best opportunity to the get the most screen accurate/quality items.

Just look at those Akubras and ABs...

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:21 am

Okay, I can't contain myself any longer. I always get a kick out of folks that talk about the Flightsuits jacket and touts the fact that they are built to military specs. This seems to be a major selling point.

Let me ask you what you think military spec stitching means? Does it mean that the stitching is done on a sewing machine that is some big military secret and a non military company like Wested would not have access to this same stealth sewing machine? I don't think so.

Does it mean that the thread is made from some titanium reenforced thread that is only available to the military? I don't think so.

In my profession, we get a lot of our clothing items from the military. I have a pair of pants made to military specs. On the tags, it says that the size is Large Long, and that this fits inseam from 32 1/2 inches to 35 inches, and the waist from 35 inches to 39 inches. Not exactly a custom fit. And, it also says that they were assembled in Honduras.

Maybe that is where the military hides that stealth sewing machine.

I also highly doubt that the military has ever sent a contract out to it's subcontractors with the military's specifications for an Indiana Jones screen accurate leather jacket. I could be wrong, though. Maybe they are starting an archeological unit up and thought it would be appropriate gear for them to wear in Iraq.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:38 am

Thats a good point Buff. And I agree, I find most modern mil-spec things to be of inferior quality. However, I must mention one thing. If the current FS jackets are built like the vintage G-1 I have then they are some nearly bomb proof jackets. My G-1 is stitched with a thread the is 1/3 or maybe even 2/3 larger then the stitching on my Wested. The leather the G-1 is made of is a thick, stiff goatskins. So in short my G-1 is a jacket that would distress about as well as armor plate. If the FS jackets are made like that then they are worth their price, but I'm skeptical. Quality seems to be getting harder an harder to find these days.

But with all of that said, quality is the reason that I love Wested. When you place an order with Wested you don't have to worry about getting an inferior jacket. It took me 3 months to get my ToD goat because Peter refused to accept poor quality hides.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:45 am

That is my point. Just because something meets a contract that was issued by the military, doesn't mean that it is the absolute best quality available anywhere in the world.

Quality and craftmanship is a thing that is achieved by knowlege and experience, the quality of the materials used, and a personal pride in one's product. It is not the result of a contract set by a group of military bean counters that determine what sizes and shapes and colors that the military needs and how many copies and at what price the military is willing to pay.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:51 am

Mil spec is just a statement that there are specifications that an item of wear must meet in order to be accepted for use by the U.S. Military (or whoever put out the purchase order specifications). Of course, the item will only be as good as the individual and machine who makes it....but the material has to come to the same specified standard that the contract states must be met before accetance for use by the military. Then it's only as good as the QC inspector who tags it as meeting that specification. Some inspectors are tough, and more are rejected than accepted when it comes to flight gear and the like.

It's just a yardstick for the buyer to look at when making a purchase decision.

Regards! Michaelson

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:56 am

Captain D wrote:5.) Made right here in the USA to avoid any custom-fees (for those who live in the US)
6.) includes the 2 piece under-arm gussets, scallopped pockets, and underarm elastics as standard with each jacket

Interesting, all things being equal you'd consider an Expedition. i think I might have in your shoes too. I think ease of availability is a huge factor for some.

Trying to nail down the price though, the Expo in the US is $425 + tax + shipping

Wested is £145 + (for the sake of arguement) + £5 for 1 mod + No extra tax. + postage, guess £30 so £180? Current exchange gives about $320. That's still over $100 difference?

Even if you end up paying customs fees that is cancelled out by sales tax in the US.

Can someone quote me the real world, bells and whistles G+B total price?

My pockets seem to be scalloped:

http://public.fotki.com/KtTemplar/weste ... acket.html

I also can say this was "made" by the man who made the original that really is a very big factor in my mind.

One thing that surprises me is that Spookys pockets look much smaller than mine, though my jacket is a 38 short so that might account for it! The Wested pockets are sized so a diary will fit in them!

Ok, cutting through all that; what is the true price difference for a person in the US between a Expo and a Wested?

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:03 pm

Michaelson wrote:Mil spec is just a statement that there are specifications that an item of wear must meet in order to be accepted for use by the U.S. Military (or whoever put out the purchase order specifications). Of course, the item will only be as good as the individual and machine who makes it....but the material has to come to the same specified standard that the contract states must be met before accetance for use by the military. Then it's only as good as the QC inspector who tags it as meeting that specification. Some inspectors are tough, and more are rejected than accepted when it comes to flight gear and the like.

It's just a yardstick for the buyer to look at when making a purchase decision.

Regards! Michaelson

The bottom line is, the quality of a product depends on the materials, and the knowlege and experience and craftsmanship and individual pride of the person that actually makes the product. Not a military contract.

Just because it is the military, you can't assume that they demand the absolute highest quality. Sometimes it is an acceptable quality that can be made for the many thousands of copies that they need at a price that fits in their buget.

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:23 pm

Michaelson wrote:
Sergei wrote:The "Jacket Wars" also predate COW - circa the year 2000. .
Maybe we should term that period of development 'Calf'?

Regards! Michaelson

D'oh I just got that one!

Vealy good!

Sergei wrote:The "Jacket Wars" also predate COW

Or the USDA "AAA" period?

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:36 pm

Michaelson wrote:
Sergei wrote:The "Jacket Wars" also predate COW - circa the year 2000. .
Maybe we should term that period of development 'Calf'?

Regards! Michaelson

Or Pre-Distressed COW?

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:36 pm

Indiana Jerry wrote:Spooky, have you seen IndyFrench's 'The History Of IndyGear' threads over in The Archives?
viewforum.php?f=25

They are in four parts (I-IV), and are the stickies at the top of that forum.

They are excellent...perhaps intentionally vague in one or two places where it was prudent not to 're-ruffle' feathers, but very informative.

J

Thanks Jerry!
I've got my reading assignment for the weekend.

Best Regards,

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:41 pm

Definitely read all the responses on those threads, too, as folks chime in w/ similar remembrances of those time periods. Classics worthy of being stickys in the Archive!

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:42 pm

Kt Templar wrote:My pockets seem to be scalloped:

http://public.fotki.com/KtTemplar/weste ... acket.html

KT Templar I think you can see the difference between the Wested and Flightsuits pockets extremely well in this photo.

I love my Wested, but man those Flightsuit pockets are dang nice looking.

Regards,
SJ

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 12:45 pm

I'm quite proud of those FS pockets. My jacket was used as the prototype to try the scalloped shape, as well as the single thickness pocket front. (They had been using the thicker standard A-2 pocket that made the front of the jacket push up anytime you sat down. The single thickness eliminated that problem.)

Regards! Michaelson

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:33 pm

Thanks SJ,

What I mean is current Westeds have scalloped pockets, maybe not as much as the FS but it is there.

Ken's dis-cowhide shows it better than my pics.

viewtopic.php?t=14163&highlight=

By the way Ken that is such a nice jacket VERY LC. (It is supposed to be LC isn't it?

).

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:39 pm

Our moderators deserve a lot of respect. In many ways, they are the unsung heroes in this hobby

.

I too apologize for having mentioned the "jacket wars." I should have remembered that that particular subject can bring up some bad memories. My apologies to all!

Kind Regards,
Captain D

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:40 pm

Michaelson wrote:I'm quite proud of those FS pockets. My jacket was used as the prototype to try the scalloped shape, as well as the single thickness pocket front. (They had been using the thicker standard A-2 pocket that made the front of the jacket push up anytime you sat down. The single thickness eliminated that problem.)

Regards! Michaelson

As well you should be sir! Now, I wonder if I could get Peter to make me a jacket with pockets like those?:-k

Kt Templar wrote:Thanks SJ,

What I mean is current Westeds have scalloped pockets, maybe not as much as the FS but it is there. Ken's dis-cowhide shows it better than my pics.

You're right KT they are both scalloped. I guess the real difference is that the bottom edge of the FS flaps look thicker, if that is the right description. To me the FS flaps have a little more character, and I guess that is what I like about them.

P.S. It looks like you haven't killed this thread at all, maybe it's time to change your signature!

Post by **Ken** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:51 pm

Kt Templar wrote:Thanks SJ,

What I mean is current Westeds have scalloped pockets, maybe not as much as the FS but it is there. Ken's dis-cowhide shows it better than my pics.

viewtopic.php?t=14163&highlight=

By the way Ken that is such a nice jacket VERY LC. (It is supposed to be LC isn't it? ).

Nope that was a Raiders. I no longer own it now though.

Ken

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 1:57 pm

Indiana Ken wrote: Nope that was a Raiders. I no longer own it now though.

Like I said ":oops;"

Didn't look for the poppers.

When was it made?

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:06 pm

Agent 5 wrote: "Keep inmine also that the FS was taken from a Raiders STUNT jacket, not a Ford hero jacket."

Just as a simple side note perhaps worth mentioning...

That's true that the Expedition jacket was copied from a "stunt jacket" used in Raiders. If I recall correctly it was one of Terry Leonard's jackets that he had used towards the end of Raiders.

However, as many here probably already know, that if you use the DVD frame-by-frame pause button as Indy (Harrison Ford - Indy) is fighting with the big German mechanic during the flying wing scene, you can see the 2-piece underarm gussets....(A key indicator that it was a stunt jacket since the stunt team had underarm gussets made into their jackets for Raiders only, not for the LC jackets...).

So, technically, yes, it was a STUNT jacket used by Terry Leonard. However, we can actually go so far as to say that perhaps the Expedition jacket is not only a "stunt jacket" but also a Harrison Ford / Hero jacket copy seeing how Harrison Ford had actually used a few of the stunt jackets towards the end of Raiders (i.e. the flying wing scene and perhaps even the truck dragging scene).

Sorry for sounding so anal and particular, lol, it was just something that came to mind...Now back to our regularly scheduled program

. I even recall Peter chuckling at the thought of us paying that much attention to, and examining, Harrison Ford's arm-pits...

Kind Regards,
Captain D

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:14 pm

He was also chuckling when they were first making the trousers....as folks have been studing Fords butt just as closely (regarding the flaps on the back pocket!

)

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:56 pm

Let's remember to give credit where it is due - that excellent side-by-side jacket comparison 'chart' I believe was provided by TE Lawrence:
viewtopic.php?t=13175&highlight=mystery+meat

Thanks again, TE!

Post by **Ken** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:20 pm

Kt Templar wrote:
Indiana Ken wrote: Nope that was a Raiders. I no longer own it now though.
Like I said ":oops;"

Didn't look for the poppers. When was it made?

About a year and half ago I believe

Ken

Rusty Jones · Post by **Rusty Jones** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:53 pm

Heh sense I'm new, I'm a little confused as to exactly what a 'scalloped' pocket is... thanks again for the great responses guys...

Captain D · Post by **Captain D** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 2:08 am

Michaelson wrote:He was also chuckling when they were first making the trousers....as folks have been studing Fords butt just as closely (regarding the flaps on the back pocket! )

Regards! Michaelson

I'm glad that I don't have to worry about anyone studying "my" butt....I aint' got one, lol. Perhaps it is due to all those years that I got spanked when I was younger

.

Kind Regards,
Captain D

Mr. Jones · Post by **Mr. Jones** » Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:55 am

Scalops are the pocket flap detail.

VP · Post by VP » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:09 am

Here's a nice shot of the pocket of my Wested:

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:00 pm

_ wrote: To make a long story short – I guess you really had to be there in August of 2000 to understand…

Enjoy your jackets!

Ain't THAT the truth!

Good to see you, _!!

High regards! Michaelson