A vintage Poet?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:43 pm

I am now the proud owner of a brown HJ with the Raiders block. It is vintage and very old, although it looks brand new. The stitching holding the sweat in has completely rotted, but other than that, the hat is almost as pristine as the day it was made. The old HJs were definetely top quality felt, and materials. In fact, one would be hard pressed to tell the difference between my beaver hats and this HJ. This hat has a high beaver content, unlike most HJs. Yeah, I know, I know, HJs are not supposed to be beaver, but I feel certain of this. The weight and characteristics of this HJ felt is almost identical to my own line. I am gratified of course, but my initial response was that of complete surprise.

This HJ came with the sweat, handstitched it, along with the liner. Very vintage, and it shows that early HJs were worthy of their name. Just like Stetson used to be. It also came with a 2 inch wide ribbon. The crown height is 5 5/8 tall, and the brim is 2 13/16 by 2 1/2. This is without a doubt, to me, the Poet block. Ok, now that I have your attention, let me go and take some pics of this one. Later on, after I change out the ribbon, I will post those as well. Stay tuned. Fedora

prairiejones · Post by **prairiejones** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:02 pm

Sounds great, Steve. Can't wait to see the pics.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:14 pm

Faster boy, faster!!!! We can't wait too long for pics!

That really is interesting, do you have any idea of when the hat was made? Anyway, congrats on a great find!

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:14 pm

Ok, here it is. Navigate the site to see front, side and back pics, along with a couple of inside shots. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/hj_creased.html Fedora

ShanghaiJack · Post by **ShanghaiJack** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:19 pm

Man Steve, that is one nice looking hat! It definitely looks better than the current HJ offerings. If you don't mind could you tell us where you found it?

prairiejones · Post by **prairiejones** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:22 pm

That looks great. The top crease looks very deep without causing taper.

marco polo · Post by **marco polo** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:36 pm

Now that is one nice looking hat!

Kaleponi Craig · Post by **Kaleponi Craig** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:06 am

Wow, what a hat!

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:38 am

How does the block compare to your own block? Will you be making any changes to yours based on this hat?
M

Indiana Williams · Post by **Indiana Williams** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:56 am

very nice Herby J Steve, where did you find that gem, was it on Eb@y. that looks brand new. congrats on a awesome purchase.
Best Regards,
- Joe

Oklahoma Jones · Post by **Oklahoma Jones** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:37 am

HOLEY MOLEY..................that is one fantastic hat, Steve. If Hj had kept up quality and form like that, They sure would have sold a lot more hats(but I'll keep my AB, thank you very much). Looking forward to the pics with the new ribbon!!

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 7:12 am

*drool* Look at the colour on that hat! It's beautiful! That looks better than any recent HJ I've seen pictures of! You can tell it's better felt!

bink

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:19 am

How does the block compare to your own block? Will you be making any changes to yours based on this hat?

Well, it is practically identical. And that was gratifying. I made my block using our Administrator's old HJ he got from Lee Keppler, when Lee was selling HJs. This is the same block shape. The only difference that I can see between it and the HJ LC block is the degree of front and back taper. The LC block has more taper, front and back. Also there is a nuance on the transition points, front and back that is obvious, at least to me.

This hat came from ebay. I always keep an eye open for vintage HJs, as I started collecting them, due to the high quality of the vintage hats. HJ really was a world renown hatter, once upon a time. And, I was hoping to run across the original Poet block shape. I knew there was one out there somewhere that had the Raiders block, and I found it.

I have been admiring this vintage HJ felt this morning. It is really very, very high quality felt, as it should be. It has the same characteristics as my own felt. You push the felt in, and it stays, without springing back like some felt does. The thickness of the HJ felt is the same as my own. It is uncanny. I think my own line is what HJ once was, if this does not sound too pretentious.

Fedora

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:23 am

WOW! That is a great looking hat! What is the crown height, it looks to be quite tall. Also, you can that there is plenty of room for a deep top dent and serious camel humps. That is a fantastic find Steve!

Indiana Wayne · Post by **Indiana Wayne** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 11:39 am

Great looking hat, Fedora! I don't like the ribbon.

Floribama Steve · Post by **Floribama Steve** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 12:46 pm

Beautiful hat Steve.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:26 pm

Fedora wrote: I have been admiring this vintage HJ felt this morning. It is really very, very high quality felt, as it should be. It has the same characteristics as my own felt. You push the felt in, and it stays, without springing back like some felt does. The thickness of the HJ felt is the same as my own. It is uncanny. I think my own line is what HJ once was, if this does not sound too pretentious. Fedora

Now wouldn't THAT be something! Just to think that your hats could essentially have been the vintage HJ all along, but in disguise! And you would've gotten away with it, too, Steve, if it hadn't been for those meddling kids and that dog! Now, who wan't a Scooby snack?

bink

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 1:31 pm

Awesome hat. That is one chunky ribbon and bow! I am looking forward to seeing it swapped out. Was the front bash like that when you got it? That means the purchaser wanted an Indy lid. Also, it has the blue crest, which is very nice. Awesome, truly!

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:46 pm

VERY exciting! This is quite possibly the closest we will ever come to being able to examine an ACTUAL Raiders hat. And to boot, we have an excellent hatter replicating it!!

Thanks to Steve, his research and dedication, the DEFINATIVE "RAIDERS" FEDORA has arrived.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:52 pm

Guys, do not misunderstand this hat.

I bought this hat and another HJ(to be sent to Dakota, as I thought he would want one) but it was not an Indy fedora. It was just a bound brim hat with a homburg crease in the top. I took off the binding(I hate binding), and cut the brim down a smidge on the sides. But, once I popped out the center crease, I saw my block sitting there. Perhaps a nuance off, but most folks could not see the difference in a small radius. I then just creased it with the Raiders crease and snapped the pics. Here is is open crowned. http://public.fotki.com/Fedora/hats/pdrm0132.html Fedora

whiskyman · Post by **whiskyman** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:56 pm

Now that's interesting - so little rounding, the straight sides almost go straight into a flat top!! How well can such a shape resist taper though? It's the anti-cone!! ANy chance of an open crown side shot?

DanielJones · Post by **DanielJones** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:23 pm

Wow Steve! That is a swell looking beaver lid. Even the liner looks great. That is one heck of a find. Enjoy my friend.

Cheers!

Dan

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:34 pm

Fedora wrote:It has the same characteristics as my own felt. You push the felt in, and it stays, without springing back like some felt does. The thickness of the HJ felt is the same as my own. It is uncanny. I think my own line is what HJ once was, if this does not sound too pretentious. Fedora

Since it's very hard i'll ever own a vintage HJ, i'm sooooo proud to posses 2 adventurebilt hats... the best imitation ever seen on indygear market!

(although it might not sound as a compliment, it is

)

Modern Jones · Post by **Modern Jones** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:35 pm

As Peter from Family Guy would say, "Holy @#$%!"

What a great looking hat Steve! Did I ever tell you that my second logon is Dakota?

That is an amazing block on that hat. I have to get my AB back in for a reblock at some point too.

Regards,

MJ

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:39 pm

whiskyman wrote:[...]How well can such a shape resist taper though? It's the anti-cone!![...]

Okay, that's got me thinking here...

...Steve, you're probably the only one here that would know if this would work, or if it's just a stupid idea...

...what if the cone were turned inside out before being stretched over the initial block? Could this contribute to a taper-resistant crown?

(I imagine even if this were true, the payoff would be a tendency to dimple in the center of the crown, but if it's bashed anyway, it shouldn't have an effect, I'd think.)

Just wondering if the original cone shape that the hat bodies are created in are in fact the shape it will always want to return to. If so, then it seems that gently turning the cone inside out after soaking it (when it's more pliable) would remove the tendency of the sides to pull in, since it would in fact want to push OUT to return to it's manufactured shape.

All just hooey? Or worth trying once?

Thanks for listening...commence firing.

J

IndianaWill · Post by **IndianaWill** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:07 pm

Hi Fedora!
Boy what a greate find! To find a Vintage Poet.. It sure looks GREAT!

You sure have those magical hands... Looks real smart!!

"The Vintage Ones were of Quality" That is of the finer fur felts.

"The Great thing is when you do you work , it is of superior Quality!!

lucky Find !

Have a Great DAy !

IndianaWill

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:21 pm

Jerry, good question but, if you turn a cone inside out wouldn't it still be a cone???

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:23 pm

another little question... how much did you pay for it?

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 5:47 pm

jpenman wrote:Jerry, good question but, if you turn a cone inside out wouldn't it still be a cone???

hahaha...YES...but a cone with a tendency to pop out, rather collapse in, is what I'm wondering...

(Thanks for keeping me honest. Chances are, Freud was right, and sometimes a cone is just a cone.)

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:41 pm

erri_wan wrote:another little question... how much did you pay for it?

Somewhere between $1 and $1,000,000. If you keep your eyes peeled and are lucky, you can find hats for little money. In fact, I just locally aquired a hat for FREE just by doing some research and hunting about. It's a little mothy in places, but it serves my purposes well.

bink

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:59 am

binkmeisterRick wrote:In fact, I just locally aquired a hat for FREE just by doing some research and hunting about. It's a little mothy in places, but it serves my purposes well.

The cemetary called, you apparently left your shovel behind this time.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:07 am

binkmeisterRick wrote: If you keep your eyes peeled and are lucky, you can find hats for little money. In fact, I just locally aquired a hat for FREE just by doing some research and hunting about. It's a little mothy in places, but it serves my purposes well.

bink

locally eh? ... mmh...

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:30 am

To join the chorus...nice hat!

What's interesting tho' is the open crown height. I've always looked at my AB with it's 5 1/2" crown height & seen a hat which is a little too short IMO. & recently looking at some of the AB's which have been made to a 5 3/4" spec, in certain angle pics they just TOO tall

Now with a HJ coming in at 5 5/8" & looking that good & even factoring in a 2" ribbon, perhaps this is the definative height to go for with a Raiders hat

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:31 am

Indiana Jerry wrote:
binkmeisterRick wrote:In fact, I just locally aquired a hat for FREE just by doing some research and hunting about. It's a little mothy in places, but it serves my purposes well.
The cemetary called, you apparently left your shovel behind this time.

Oh, thanks, Jerry. Let 'em now I'll be by for it this evening... rather late this evening. I need it for another dig--I mean gig!

Kevin_Kenobi · Post by **Kevin_Kenobi** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:48 pm

O now that IS cool.....congratulations indeed!

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:19 pm

What's interesting tho' is the open crown height. I've always looked at my AB with it's 5 1/2" crown height & seen a hat which is a little too short IMO. & recently looking at some of the AB's which have been made to a 5 3/4" spec, in certain angle pics they just TOO tall

Now with a HJ coming in at 5 5/8" & looking that good & even factoring in a 2" ribbon, perhaps this is the definative height to go for with a Raiders hat

Sometimes, it is all about the angles. To me, 5 1/2 to 5 3/4 is good. The hat can be too short, but also too tall. To me anything shorter than a 5 inch crown, after it is creased is too short. Anything over 5 1/4, creased is too tall. Unless you have a larger head, like a 7 3/4 upwards. Those need a 6 inch crown height just to bring it into proportion. I am talking about the width of the hat versus the height.

This is old stuff, but the Raiders fedora seems to change heights during the film. Sometimes it looks to be 5 3/4 and sometimes it appears to be firmly in the 5 1/2 realm. Use the 39 mm ribbon as the measuring stick. I have used it with numerous pics and I still come up with a 5 1/2 open crown height. Lee Keppler has said the same thing.

Really, once you have owned an Indy fedora, and wore it, you will know what looks the best on you in crown height. And, I can give you what you want as I can make em up to 6 inches tall. Regards, Fedora

prairiejones · Post by **prairiejones** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:50 pm

When I used to compare my Akubra to the Raiders hat, it didn't seem tall enough. Tall was all that was on my brain. My Akubra is 5 3/4and it still didn't look tall enough. Now that I have an AB I see the Raiders hat differently. The straight sides is what does it. It isn't as tall as it seemed before. It's not an "overly" tall hat.
For my size (7-7 1/8") the 5 1/2 inch crown is perfect for a Raiders hat. I may be beating a dead horse, but when I look at my AB, from any angle, I see the hat in Raiders.

With that wide ribbon, that HJ needs to be a little taller.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Fri Sep 23, 2005 2:50 am

Fantastic hat Fedora, and yes, you are the new HJ. THANK YOU!...But I am on a quest for fortune and glory also

.. Would you say that the bash or brim curl of it's original Homburg configuration were formed on blocks, or all done by hand? Dakota has said he didn't think HJ was selling block formed hats in 81. But even if the Homburg was entirely formed by hand, with maybe a little steam, HJ could have been producing teardrops and pork pies by hand with this block too. But it goes to show, they weren't only selling open crown hats back then. And a Poet could be hiding in a HJ pork pie somewhere?

A vintage Poet?

A vintage Poet?

A VINTAGE POET?

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