The Grey/Brown hat : one more serious question?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 6:50 pm

Indiana Jerry wrote: So how much of that ad was original? Did you just add the words under the large pic?

I'm wondering if the part about 'brown for dress, grey for travel' was really on the ad or not. That would be an important distinction!

I found the ad like that... honest. 8-[

bink

Glurrk · Post by **Glurrk** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 8:21 pm

I hope everyone realizes how different of a movie it would have been if Indy's hat had indeed been a fully functional propeller beanie:

Indy: Too bad the Hovitos don't know you the way I do, Belloq.
Belloq: Yes... you could warn them, if only you spoke Hovitos!
(Belloq turns and faces the Hovitos.)
Indy: I'm outta here.
(Indy reaches up, gives the propeller a spin, and deftly flies out of danger, allowing Jock to continue fishing undisturbed.)

Or:

Indy: They're going to fly the ark out of here.
Marion: What can we do?
Indy: The same thing. This hat's gotten me out many a scrape that way!
I'll hold the ark between my legs, and carry you in my arms. Or should that be the other way around?
Marion: Um...

Come to think of it, the plane fight would have drastically altered too. All Indy would have had to do is give the ol' propeller a spin, lowered his head and charged bull-like into Pat Roach!

Nah... a fedora was the wiser choice, in retrospect...

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:17 pm

Okay, that's it...after I finally break down and buy an AB, I'm retro-fitting my DP w/ a propeller...

Glurrk · Post by **Glurrk** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:43 pm

The ToD bridge scene, with propeller beanie:

(Mola Ram pushes Willie & Short Round onto the swinging bridge, taunting Indy.)
Mola Ram: Your friends die with you!
Indy: Then I guess you're all gonna take the big dive!
(Indy raises his sword with one hand to cut the bridge...)
Willie: What does he mean, "you're"???
Short Round: Look lady, Doctor Jones can fly!
(...Indy uses his other hand to spin the propeller. Slowly he lifts to safety.)
Short Round: Hang on lady, we go for a ride!
Willie: Oh, my GOD! Indy, you bas- AAAAAAAHHHHHH! (insert Wilhelm scream)

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Thu Sep 15, 2005 11:18 pm

LC, temple scene:

Indy: Dad, I can almost reach it...
Sr.: Indiana, let it go...let it go.
Indy: Pull my starter cord, would ya?
<putt putt putt putt putt putt>
Indy: Got it!

IndyK · Post by **IndyK** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:13 am

Seems like the thread is going of topic once again. And once again with myself as one of the off-trackers.

Allow me to make up for last time with this reply.

Agent5's initial question has caught my interest and as mentioned earlier I think it would be an obvious job for the british COW-members to start looking for old add's, brochures, pamflets etc.

Finding the original material from the 70's will probably be of interest for all Fedora fans and when we see Bink's genious add it's just an indication there must be lots of other stuff from great vendors like HJ.

I'm sure we non-UK residents would like to do our bit of search, but since we're talking pre-internet era the search will be limited to actual things on print, making it a little more difficult for us.

Any ideas? ( I mentioned some earlier in this thread)

Cheers

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:30 am

Gosh, not fair, you going back on topic just when I wanted to retort to some of the earlier off-topic grey/brown nonsense again. I shall refrain. (And bide my time...muahahahaha.)

Seriously back on topic, BINK, I'm serious - how much of that is a real hat ad - I'm really having trouble telling if you made the whole thing up or just some of the words. (Color me stupid.)

I'm just thinking if most of that (other than the obvious edit for the "Can't we all get along" touch-feely part) is real, then right there that's a credible point for explaining the possible use of an allegedly grey hat.

I.e., in ROTLA, they didn't seem as bent on keeping Indy in his 'trademark' look (since it wasn't really a trademark yet), as evidenced by him spending SO much of the end of the movie in a German uniform - no fedora, jacket, not even khaki. Just grey. (Although he got to keep the epaulettes somehow.) Likewise, they put him in a non-brown suit at the end, and apparently also in the plane. (Notice I don't mention the hats.) Point is, in the first movie, they may not have cared to keep him in earthtones (I mean BROWN folks) all the time...which would make a blue/grey based outfit for traveling and government meetings a plausible wardrobe decision for the first movie.

I don't think the TOD and LC costuming decisions have any bearing on this. In TOD once he hit the plane he spent pretty much the whole movie in one set of clothes (I forget, did they lend him a blazer for the Snake Surprise?), and by LC they did put him in brown-based suits, and I assume this was to keep him as close as possible to his (by now) trademark look - at least by sticking in the same color pallette.

Why is this not off topic? Cause if Bink's ad is real - the bottom part, I mean - it says something distinctive and highly relevant - "Brown for Dress, Grey for Travel". If that's a true ad, it is indicative of possibly common style sense that we have forgotten or no longer applies today, but could explain the reason why a non-brown hat may have made an appearance in the first movie, which at the time was probably going to be an ONLY movie, and there wasn't a 'trademark' look the were trying to keep true to.

Bleah. Now I feel cleansed and detoxified...where's the coffee?

J

EDIT:P.S. I'm also on Fedora Lounge, but not a frequent poster there. Would someone else who more familiar w/ the Lounge like to take this similar ponderance over there? That board is FULL of folks WELL-VERSED in the styles of the day - and I think that has way more bearing on answering this question than many of the ideas we gear-minded folks have. Seriously, wait till you see them at the QM! Zowie! (This is like the Mythbusters trying to host Queer Eye For The Straight Guy. Those teams have very different strengths and skills. Likewise, I think this is a problem for the more fashion-minded.)

IndyK · Post by **IndyK** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:56 am

Sorry if I ruined Your day IJ! Lets start our own thread with a non-serious attitude to hat colors. Only black&white TV owners allowed

You are right, I think, in Your assumptions though. But the problem as I see it is the way we keep analyzing this topic. (Not You IJ, but all of us in generel).

I think we are talking relevant issues as long as the topic is time-correct drees-codes. But the topic here is not dress-codes - it's moviemaking.

The reply Dakota Ellison received from Deborah Nadoolman Landis clearly shows just that. Serious work has been done to create the right gear for the man and thats it. When the actual filming begins the gear is just there and a scriptgirl may be the only one around to assist the costume department with issues of continuity. And we gearheads are the only ones who would ever go into all the details in the degree seen here in COW.
It just ain't necessary for the filmcrew. They make films for the audience, not for the nerds (I'm one of them so I'm allowed to use the word...). As for details in Fedora bashing please remember that no film shows an exact timeline. The story in ROTLA does not take place in the couple of hours the film lasts. So any little hump og mark on Indy's Fedora is not important. He just might have banged his head up in a lamp at Sallahs just before going to the market. Thats not in the movie because it's unimportant for the story but from a continuity point of view little things like that is a good enough reason for not spending time on too small details. Hope You get my point. (I've kind of lost track myself).

The way we analyze things is far beyond whats necessary for the film to tell the story. Thats my point.

Lets find some original catalogues now, shall we?

Cheers

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:41 am

Indiana Jerry wrote: Seriously back on topic, BINK, I'm serious - how much of that is a real hat ad - I'm really having trouble telling if you made the whole thing up or just some of the words. (Color me stupid.)

I'm just thinking if most of that (other than the obvious edit for the "Can't we all get along" touch-feely part) is real, then right there that's a credible point for explaining the possible use of an allegedly grey hat.

Okay... I'll colour you stupid... let me get some crayons...

I see your point, Jerry, though the fun is in knowing what I did to the ad and what I didn't do to the ad. But, I'll ruin the fun just for you. If children cry, it's all your fault.

The headline was the only real thing I did to the ad (apart from some cleanup). The "right for dress" and "right for travel" is indeed part of the original ad. However, I'm guessing that it refers to the hat model, and not necessarily to what colours you should wear for travel. (Though I've read in more current travel magazines that a navy blue suit coat is good to have in your suitcase while traveling. The brown hat (with brown matching dress suggestions) is a Whippet, while the grey hat in the ad (with matching blue accoutraments) is the Flagship model. I'm thinking Stetson just wanted to show a variety of hat colours and two different hats in one ad.

I don't have time to visit the FL like I used to, but it would be a good question to ask over there as to wearing "grey for travel." I hocked the ad ffrom online, so I'll have to look at the "original" when I get home to see if I can read any of the finer text to see if it sheds light on the subject.

bink

Serial Hero · Post by **Serial Hero** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:02 pm

Okay... I'll colour you stupid... let me get some crayons...

Does the "stupid" color come in any other sets, or do I have to buy the 300 count box?

I don't have time to visit the FL like I used to

because hanging out on COW really eats into all of your free time.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 2:35 pm

IndyK wrote:Sorry if I ruined Your day IJ! Lets start our own thread with a non-serious attitude to hat colors. Only black&white TV owners allowed
...
Lets find some original catalogues now, shall we?

Cheers

Takes a lot to ruin my day.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply - I'll get out of the way now and wait to see what people dig up!

binkmeisterRick wrote:I see your point, Jerry, though the fun is in knowing what I did to the ad and what I didn't do to the ad. But, I'll ruin the fun just for you. If children cry, it's all your fault.

The headline was the only real thing I did to the ad (apart from some cleanup). The "right for dress" and "right for travel" is indeed part of the original ad. However, I'm guessing that it refers to the hat model, and not necessarily to what colours you should wear for travel. (Though I've read in more current travel magazines that a navy blue suit coat is good to have in your suitcase while traveling. The brown hat (with brown matching dress suggestions) is a Whippet, while the grey hat in the ad (with matching blue accoutraments) is the Flagship model. I'm thinking Stetson just wanted to show a variety of hat colours and two different hats in one ad.

I don't have time to visit the FL like I used to, but it would be a good question to ask over there as to wearing "grey for travel." I hocked the ad ffrom online, so I'll have to look at the "original" when I get home to see if I can read any of the finer text to see if it sheds light on the subject.

bink

Aw...making babies cry is fun

...but I appreciate you being brave on my account.

That's interesting that it really said that in the ad - but likely you are right, they may have just been pushing more hats, and varied color to get the most bang for their buck in that ad. If you do find more interesting text there I'd love to hear it.

Serial Hero wrote:
binkmeisterRick wrote:Okay... I'll colour you stupid... let me get some crayons...
Does the "stupid" color come in any other sets, or do I have to buy the 300 count box?

It's also in the 128 count box, but it's hard to pick out, because it doesn't say 'Stupid' on it, it just says 'Jerry'. Can't miss it, though, the color is...uh...really stupid.