Can volleying harm a bullwhip?

[USNavyBlueAngel]

After having watched canasta, winrichwhips, and midwestwhips compete in Ohio for the most cracks in 60 seconds, I'm starting to try to learn how to volley my new Schulz whips.

Someone else in the WWAC told me that volleying a bullwhip can really harm it though, because it (sorry if I don't get the terminology correct here) forces the whip to crack against the belly, and since it wasn't meant to crack that way, it will eventually damage the whip. He said the people in those competitions are probably using stockwhips.

I didn't see what kind of whips the contestants were using, so they could have been stockwhips. But when I was in the yard, just going through the motions, it seems like I am constantly turning my wrist back & forth, so it didn't seem like the whip would ever get pushed "backwards" into a position it isn't meant to crack in.

I just wanted some input from my much more experienced comrades on here as to if volleying can harm a bullwhip by pushing it "backwards" against the belly, because I definetely don't want to ruin my new twin whips!

[winrichwhips]

Hey Cathy,

Well, intense volleying like that used in the record attempt does put an extra strain on the whip, if for any reason because you're cracking it that much more.

That volleying was kind of intense anyway. I do normal volleys with my Schultz whips all the time and I don't think it hurts them. The most important thing is technique. If you try to do volleys holding the handle straight up all the time you will put extra stress on the transition from handle to the lash. I try to do volleys by rolling my wrist into each crack so I'm sort of making a figure-eight with my hand.

Look at the whip when you're doing your volleys. If it looks like the whip is bending really sharply off the handle, that's not good for the whip. Concentrate on your wrist: the first crack is done by turing your wrist down, and then the second crack of the volley is done by turning your wrist up. So if you're doing volleys to the side, the wrist rolls down for the front crack and up for the back crack. A rhythm would be down-up-down-up-down-up...... ad-nauseaum.

I myself have started training for a record attempt. I managed to do 212 cracks tonight, and I also got 120 cracks in 30 seconds with my left hand.

Does anyone know of a sporting event that would require a similar style of endurance? I sort of think it's like the 400m, in that it's a really long sprint. I've been training by doing about 3 attempts with each arm, taking a break of an hour or so, and them doing a few more attempts.

I guess I'm looking for advice from someone who has a good knowledge of sports training. I'm thinking that 240 might be attainalbe, but it would have to be done by someone with the talent, knowledge, and commitment of an Olympic athlete.

I know Canasta does a lot of training for his attempts, though I'm not sure anyone has applied sports science to this type of thing.

So far I've found out that even if I can't set a new record, I'll end up with some biceps that will drive the chicks wild

-Adam

[Canasta]

Hi Cathy!
The Guinness Record is for Bullwhips. (Most Bullwhip Cracks in 60 Seconds).

Here is my 2 cents. After my thoughts, I will include some by Mike Murphy on this very subject.

Volley all you like. Whips were made to crack. Just don't use more force than needed.
The pair of whips that i set the Guinness record with have been cracked more in the last year than most of the whips in my bag. I think that it is safe to say that they have done more vollies than any other whip in my bag hands down. At this point the only breakdown is in the handle/thong connection and that is slight. Remember. The Guinness record is set for extremes. Most people arent gong to be cracking their whips with the speed, force or duration that someone attempting to break a Guinness record would be. (I think the fastest I have ever cracked those whips is 29 times in 5 seconds. Paul can refresh me on this) This is extreme. Sure it's a lot more stress on a whip than what usually would be applied. Lots of folks are using vollies in routines without damage. Just remember to keep it easy and without force.

Here is a tip for you too.
Don't roll your rists.
It should pivot back and forth but not roll.
If you have trouble getting the vollies by the side, try them in front of you so you can see them. Your arm should remain at the same angle as it is moving the whip back and forth. Your wrist will drop back (most likely against the natural curl) and then drop forward (with the natural curl).
Another Tip.
Don't go to fast to begin with.
Start out kinda slow and watch the whip "roll" out back and forth.
When you get the feel for it, then you can speed it up.

I hope this helps.
Here is Mike Murphy's input.
I took this from his web page and cut it down a bit so it is more to the point.

Great seeing you in Ohio Cathy.
I can't wait to get together again.

All the best as always!
C



Cracking with the natural curve or against it?

..." I don't think cracking with the natural curve or against it is really a big deal. In my opinion it's nothing compared with forming a strong habit of cracking your whips effortlessly as possible in practice.    If you don't consciously choose and hold the whip any old way the whip might feel right or it might feel weird, just depends on which way the natural curve of the whip is angled.
...There is another school of thought. That is continually rotating the bullwhip handle during practice sessions so the whip eventually flexes evenly in every direction. If you find the whip has a natural curve or memory in one direction, then extra attention is paid to it to dilute it by more cracking against the curve. The aim here is to break a new whip in so it's not important what orientation the handle is held at.  
...A volley is a classical example. For the forward crack you may be cracking against the curve, but that means the back crack will be with the natural memory of the bull whip. In this example it doesn't matter at all that you cracked whip or against the natural curve of the whip. My suggestion is try both, see what feels best, then pick one way and stick with it. It's far more important to pay attention to the amount of muscle power your using in practice and keep on asking yourself  " Can I take more power out of this" If you do this your whips will crack very loud, but effortlessly and there will be next to no stress on your whip's fall, plaited point and handle/thong connection.  

[winrichwhips]

After reading Chris's 2 cents I guess I wasn't very clear. I guess I'm thinking the whip rolls more than your wrist. I wanted to say 'roll' because I see more people 'pushing' the whip into a volley by just moving the whip back and forth, when I think the whip should be rolling over itself into the crack, which should happen the whip handle pivots at the wrist.

Now that I look back at the initial post, Cathy didn't actually ask 'how' to do a volley. Another think I might mention is that if most of the beginning whip crackers who read this forum are using essentially Morgan-styled whips 8 feet and longer it will probably be kind of difficult to do volleys.

Another thought: I tried showing someone to volley a few weeks ago and in the process I tried to figure out where the bias (spine and belly) related to my hand position. I personally found that my hand was slightly off-set from the bias, and not directly aligned with the bias as when I might do a circus crack.

Chris,

I'm trying my darndest to train for the record so that I do it one-handed, without switching, though for symmetry I'm training both hands. The 212 was one-handed.

-Adam

[USNavyBlueAngel]

Now that I look back at the initial post, Cathy didn't actually ask 'how' to do a volley.

That's ok!! It's only been since I saw both of you in Ohio that I've really started getting serious about learning whipcracking, so any advice is always very much appreciated since I'm still at the learning stage.

Thanks very much, Adam & Chris, for the advice on the technique and the reassurance that the whips can handle it.


Cathy