A question about AB ribbons

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:37 pm

I was watching ROTLA few days ago with my AB in my hand and i noticed that the knot on the ribbon (if there is a specifical word for it, i apologize!) is a bit too large isnt it? Well that's my impression. It seems to me that Herbert Johnson's hat from ROTLA had not so large knot.

I hope Fedora will see this topic

regards,

Erri Wan

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 2:24 pm

Erri:
Which scene in Raiders were you watching?

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:21 pm

Spooky wrote:Erri:
Which scene in Raiders were you watching?

Many. I know it's not a precise answer but now i cant remember. I'll watch it again, maybe i'll find some pics around but from many of them i noticed that the knot of HJs could be not as large as the ABs.

I'll investigate more on this. By now it's just a feeling

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:25 pm

It really depends on which scene you're comparing the AB's knot to. I reckon that you mean "long" instead of "large" as in opposite to the length, the hight of the knot hardly varies on the hats used in Raiders.

You should however be able to fix that problem with a little practice and a needle yourself. Use the search function. The question "how to (re-)attach a ribbon has been answered several times in the past, so there should be all information needen on board.

Regards,

Marc

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:33 pm

Marc wrote:It really depends on which scene you're comparing the AB's knot to. I reckon that you mean "long" instead of "large" as in opposite to the length, the hight of the knot hardly varies on the hats used in Raiders.

You should however be able to fix that problem with a little practice and a needle yourself. Use the search function. The question "how to (re-)attach a ribbon has been answered several times in the past, so there should be all information needen on board.

Regards,

Marc

On the light of your words... i think i meant the lenght of the knot

=0= HJ

==0== AB

you know what i mean? I know i'm not very clear about this 8-[

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:48 pm

Oh, you're talking about the length of the entire bow, not only the knot in the middle of it, right?

Anyhow, it still depends on the scene and you should easily be able to fix that with a needle and a some thread.

Regards,

Marc

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:51 pm

This is the only scene i found on internet that i can compare with my AB.

http://mikes-images.co.uk/misc/raiders/ ... mq_125.jpg

Here it looks like shorter than my AB (a lot more scenes are like this anyway)

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:01 pm

That image is compressed. I would not judge proportions from anything on an image like this.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:06 pm

Hemingway Jones wrote:That image is compressed. I would not judge proportions from anything on an image like this.

Mmmh maybe you're right... maybe i've watched raiders in letterbox for too long time

Anyway i compared it on my dvd. It might be just a bad impression i had. Don't know. I'll have to compare it better with some other pic if i find one. (seems that there are more right-side views of harrison ford than the left ones)

:post: POST

what about this pic?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:50 pm

The bows that I put on my hats are around 5 inches long and the knot in the middle of the bow is 1 inch wide. Now, with that said, on a larger hat, I increase the bow length. I used to always measure bows on my hats, the new ones and the vintage ones and most of the old ones were around 5 inches long. I copied that as it seem to be close to the Raiders bow. Now, some of the Hjs that I have reblocked, with the awful bow work, were like 4 1/2 inches long, but that looks too short to me, going by photos. Remember some of those photos look distorted, like they were compressed, or even stretched out. Hard to make a good call unless you have a good photo. If you guys can prove to me, that bow was shorter than 5 inches, I will change the way that I make them.

I am all ears and eyes. regards, Fedora

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 7:57 pm

Thank you for the answer Fedora.

Now if you had some HJs with 4 1/2 inches ribbon, is it possible that this is the right measure for raiders? Do you have any pics of these hats? Anyone of the COW member own a 70s-80s HJ to compare with the AB?
This is from indygear:

PS another little thing my dear friend. Probably you already told this so many times to so many pain-in-the-arse-cow-members-like-me to feel sick to hear it again but you know, i'm new to all this... so the question is this: is the colour accurate? It looks quite similar to raiders to me. Do we know anything about the original ribbon? (and its colour)

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:24 pm

erri_wan wrote:Do we know anything about the original ribbon? (and its colour)

You do have a knack for asking the truly volatile questions...

Erri, you know very well what happens here when you question the color of something!

My guess is that the original ribbon was a grosgrain one. As for it's dimensions... there are people here better qualified to answer that. But, as for the color... it's brown. Not black, dark brown.

Black is right out.

The color of the ribbon shall be brown.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 10:30 pm

Someone else may chime in here, but I seem to recall that the ribbon that was put on the Raiders fedora in place of the stock 2 inch was some vintage stock that HJ still had around. There used to be quite a discussion of that on Indyfans, years ago. The hat that you have pictured is an anomaly in HJs. There was only one that ever made it to the internet, and that is the one you have pictured. I think that hat was a real reddish brown instead of the Raiders brown. Keep in mind, that I have seen 3 or 4 shades of brown on old HJs that I have reblocked over the years. I am talking felt here, and not ribbon. I personally think the Raiders fedora had a 5 inch bow on it, and I have always doubted that HJ did the work. Modern Hj bows are tacked in the middle by 4 stitches at each corner of the knot. The Raiders does not sport a usual HJ bow. I think it was made by the costume department and added. The flying "V" and all. Looks too good to be an HJ bow.

Fedora

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:27 am

I read on indygear this:

Trim: Dark Brown Petersham Ribbon, 39mm

Unfortunately it's not said how long is the ribbon.

I'll try to take a picture from the film (with the original ratio and not letterbox or alterated proportions) to compare with my AB so i'll be able to say for sure if my feelings are right or wrong

Thank you for the help Fedora.

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:54 am

Trim: Dark Brown Petersham Ribbon, 39mm

May I add, that in my search for a high quality grosgrain ribbon, I stumpled over some English vendors, who considered what we call a grosgrain ribbon a Petersham ribbon with bound edges

I do however not agree, as the REAL grosgrain has much finer / denser lines then a petersham ribbon. The ribbon on the Raiders Fedora however was a grosgrain: fine, dense lines, bound edges.

Regards,

Marc

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:31 pm

Here's a pic of my 1972 shag Poet. I think the ribbon is a close relative of the Raiders ribbon and bow. Especially the knot which is folded under just like the Raiders knot.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 12:33 pm

what the hollenzollern happened to that hat????

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:07 pm

Erri, the pimps in the '70s loved 'em.

VP · Post by VP » Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:32 pm

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:32 pm

Laugh, but that hat became this hat.

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:35 pm

Unbelievable!

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:02 pm

Dakota Ellison wrote:
Laugh, but that hat became this hat.

intollerabl...ehm unbelievable!

That ribbon looks screen accurate. I should take a pic of my AB from the same angle and compare it with your 70s HJ. They looks different but who knows.
Anyway, did you modify your ribbon ? It looks a bit loose in the first pic and tightier in the shaped one
Could you take a side pic anyway?

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:00 am

OOOHHHH , Dakota!! THAT is beautiful!! Seriously! Who did that work to get it like that? GORGEOUS! I love that chocolate ribbon color! Where d'ya get that?

have a nice day!

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:20 am

I got the hat a couple years ago on Ebay. I did all the work with electric shaver and sandpaper. Swales at HJ verified these shag hats were indeed Poets.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:35 am

Dakota Ellison wrote:I got the hat a couple years ago on Ebay. I did all the work with electric shaver and sandpaper. Swales at HJ verified these shag hats were indeed Poets.

how much did you pay for it?

(dont tell me around $20 or i kill you

)

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:41 am

It was $85, if I remember right.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 6:43 am

Dakota Ellison wrote:It was $85, if I remember right.

AAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrGGGGGGHhhhh!!!

Jammy git!!!!

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:31 am

erri_wan wrote: Could you take a side pic anyway?

Two of my ABs

we should now compare them with the film and with your hj

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:18 am

what in the?

I'm coming to a loss of words about these

have a ?

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:21 am

Dakota Ellison wrote:I got the hat a couple years ago on Ebay. I did all the work with electric shaver and sandpaper. Swales at HJ verified these shag hats were indeed Poets.

yes, but where did you get that ribbon? Who blocked it? Who did the bow? etc,etc.

have a nice day.

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Thu Sep 01, 2005 6:26 am

The hat was done by HJ. The refurb has the same ribbon. I redid it somewhat to suit the hat's new look. What I was trying to show was the ribbon was similar to, if not the same as the ribbon on the Raiders hat. The block on the original is definately the Raiders block. I reblocked it to my size.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:19 pm

erri_wan wrote:I was watching ROTLA few days ago with my AB in my hand and i noticed that the knot on the ribbon (if there is a specifical word for it, i apologize!) is a bit too large isnt it? Well that's my impression. It seems to me that Herbert Johnson's hat from ROTLA had not so large knot.

I hope Fedora will see this topic

regards,

Erri Wan

Fedora wrote: Hard to make a good call unless you have a good photo. If you guys can prove to me, that bow was shorter than 5 inches, I will change the way that I make them. I am all ears and eyes. regards, Fedora

I redig the topic because i have new pics to compare... tomorrow i'll post 'em.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:45 pm

Fedora wrote:The bows that I put on my hats are around 5 inches long and the knot in the middle of the bow is 1 inch wide. Now, with that said, on a larger hat, I increase the bow length. I used to always measure bows on my hats, the new ones and the vintage ones and most of the old ones were around 5 inches long. I copied that as it seem to be close to the Raiders bow. Now, some of the Hjs that I have reblocked, with the awful bow work, were like 4 1/2 inches long, but that looks too short to me, going by photos. Remember some of those photos look distorted, like they were compressed, or even stretched out. Hard to make a good call unless you have a good photo. If you guys can prove to me, that bow was shorter than 5 inches, I will change the way that I make them. I am all ears and eyes. regards, Fedora

I'm not sure when mine was made but the bow is 5" on the one I just got. However it is a rather ugly, square bow. (the far hat) The ribbon is 1-3/4" wide compaired to 1-1/2" on the Acruba in front.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:04 pm

You revealed my secret pics

ok i'll comment them tomorrow

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:11 pm

Just been researching myself and found something that said the original HJ ribbons (at the fitting for Ford) were 50cm (about 2") but was changed to 39cm (about 2-1/2") to make the hat look taller.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:15 am

Ok this is my hat, i took a measure i would like to compare with an HJ hat because it think it's too large than it should be (or too on the front side).

13,5 cm = 5.31 inches

I have a theory but i need FACTS to proove it so i need measures
can anyone tell me his measure of herbert-johnson?

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:25 am

Like I said, mine is just under 5" (12,4 cm to be exact), but the ribbon is 1-3/4" tall so it looks funny and blocky compaired to the Acubra whos bow is exactly the same lenght but the ribbon it's self is 1/4" (~6 cm) shorter.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:13 am

IndyDoc wrote:Like I said, mine is just under 5" (12,4 cm to be exact), but the ribbon is 1-3/4" tall so it looks funny and blocky compaired to the Acubra whos bow is exactly the same lenght but the ribbon it's self is 1/4" (~6 cm) shorter.

I think the original raiders hat bow was shorter than my 13,5cm AB bow. This is something i've believed for long time without being able to find objective evidences yet (hard to work on film scenes)

A question about AB ribbons

A question about AB ribbons

Re: A question about AB ribbons