My visit to Herbert Johnson- things could be on the up!

nicmusto · Post by **nicmusto** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:26 pm

I posted my first message on Wednesday on another topic group, stating that I was going to the Herbert Johnson shop to see how they treated customers who wanted to buy or find out a bit more about THE hat. Michaelson replied, with a wry smile, that I may well come face to face with the same brisk and irritated manor that is fired at Indy Fans who dare to enter their shop and proudly announce that they are great admirers of the films and of course the icon that is the Poet fedora. I stated that I would try a new tact. I would go to the shop looking for a hat. Not an Indiana Jones hat. Just a hat. I would ask nothing about Indiana Jones- I would not even mention the name, I would not be interested! So here it is, my trip to the shop and what happened.
Firstly I am a Brit and have quite a neutral accent, so I can play up a little and sound a bit- Posh! Armed with this and wearing smart clothes (It was the wifes Birthday and we were going out in London that evening anyway) I walked in to the shop and with a mobile phone fitted neatly to my ear carried on talking as if holding a very important conversation. Once the well groomed shop assistant had seen this I ended the call and he immediately scuttled over to me saying " can I help you sir?" I responded instantly saying that I needed a hat for when I'm walking the dog and one to take off the Kenya with me on safari. I was guided to the right and towards the summer Panama style hats. There out of the corner of my eye I spotted that little black and white photo of Ford as IJ and a wooden head sporting the Fedora. I tried to ignore it and started to tell the assistant that I had plenty of Panamas and really needed more of a winter hat for the walking and as I wouldn't be returning to London before Christmas needed to buy one now! I had already done a little research and remenber that past COW members had not known their hat size- I knew mine and made sure that the assistant got it before he asked (just made it look a little more like i knew what I was doing) I was then ushered over closer to my goal. I picked up trilbys and various other similar hats and tried them all on, making great play that these just weren't quite right for Sir and that Sir really needed a wider brim to keep the rain off and for it to be lined to keep Sirs balding head comfortable! Finally we moved round and the assistant handed me the prize. "This is called the Poet, Sir" I tried it on and looked in the mirror. Now the first thing I noticed was that these hats are NOT shaped, they are effectively the old Poet but with lose bashing in the crown. The brim is flat but raised slightly at the rear. I didn't expect it to look right instantly as these were brand new hats. I played it down saying that this was fine but I thought I might need a bigger brim. "Of course, Sir" He then left me saying that he would go downstairs to the stock room and find me some different styles to try. In the mean time this gave me plenty of time to really study the hat. I have to say I was impressed. Previous members had said the the stitching waws poor, well this was very good. Tight and even and not protruding out from the sweat band. White silk liner with Gold lettering ( Not the maroon HJ logo I'm afraid!) but still very smart and well fitted. The fir felt was very good and seemed completely even all round. I was very suprized at how thick and stiff the brim was- very strurdy. Once he returned and I tried some more hats I returned to the Indy and exclaimed that I was running out of time and quite like the Poet so would buy that. ( I had of course spent ages saving up for this moment) I then asked him how I could water proof it as the British weather can occasionaly subside to a spot of rain! The assistant told me that I really shouldn't use anything on it and, this is where things get interesting, he took the hat off me and started looking closely at the brim while smoothing his fingers around it saying "we are now using very high quality fur felt which has a very high natural water repellency" I logged that one in the upstairs filing cabenet. I then went to pay. As he placed the hat in the HJ box he voluteered with no provokation from my " And if Sir ever goes to a fancy dress party, one could go as Indiana Jones as these were the hats used!" He seemed suddenly very proud of this fact. I said "Really, yes I saw the photo and wondered what that was all about, how interesting!" Still smiling he continued "Yes, we also used to have them with a black silk liner ( at this point he mimed with is fingers typing) but we received so many emails from those film fanatics that we changed back to the white. They send us stills from the films and everything, most odd!" I smiled back in agreement that these film fanatics were indeed, odd. I left the shop.
Well , what do we know know.
1/ Don't have an American accent!
2/ Dress smartly as if you could buy the shopk if you wanted!
3/ Seem uninterested in THE hat!
4/ DO NOT ask any questions about the hat or its origins!
5/ They have improved the quality
and the most important of all:
6/ KEEP SENDING EMAILS AS THEY ARE LISTENING AND HAVE TAKEN ACTION!!!!

Post by **Ken** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:35 pm

Time to work on my acting skills. Can a Northern Irish accent ever sound posh?

Ken

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:37 pm

will you be posting any pics?

nicmusto · Post by **nicmusto** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:39 pm

Of course it can. My belief is that in actual fact it's obviously not the accent, but the seeming lack of interest in the Herbert Johnson/ Indiana Jones link that did it. Worked though didn't it!

Feraud · Post by **Feraud** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:48 pm

Walk into the shop and act uninterested in buying a hat? I guess the next time I walk into a Ford showroom I had better not act like I am interested in buying a car.

If H.J. does not want to acknowledge what put them on the map outside of England they can keep their Indy hat collecting dust in a corner.

I will stick to my Akubra. My next hat, or two will be an AB.

schwammy · Post by **schwammy** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:53 pm

I was wondering when someone was going to wise up and shop like an adult. The last thing you want to do is walk into London's finest hat shop wearing jeans, brandishing a bullwhip, and sporting a three-day growth of stubble, shouting, "Where's them Indiana Jones hats? I want me a Raiders one with a Cairo bash!" Well played, old chap.

zohar · Post by **zohar** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:22 pm

Ahh, Schwammy.... My friend, it is indeed good to read your prose once again. You really tickled me with that description.

nicmusto · Post by **nicmusto** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:44 pm

I will post pics, once I can figure out how to do it ( not very computer literate I'm afraid)
I understand what you say about their attitude and that they can keep their hats gathering dust, but I would imagine 20 years of the same old questions would put their backs up. Having said that, why still advertise the poet as the Indy hat and have Ford's picture up next to it. I have to say though that after shaping it and putting it on I am absolutely delighted with it!

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:21 am

WOW! I'm very impressed, your research was top notch and your acting skills were beyond exellent. I didnt know they had wider brims and different "styles". Can you tell us more about these varied than the ones on display and so on? I'm surprised about the water thing. They might feel they have a vested interest in saying this, so the hat loses its bash faster and needs a costly recharge. I have babied my HJ. Next time there is a spot of light rain, I'll see what how it goes. My stitching etc is fine as well. Seemed proud. OMG. OMG. Gentleman (and ladies) they think we are "most odd". Next time I go to HJ, perhaps to look for something else as my obsession grows, I'll try out your tricks. Exellent detective work. And welcome to the board, it seems you have a lot to contribute.

nicmusto · Post by **nicmusto** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 1:56 am

I'm sorry but I may have misled you in my very long story, the other models with wider brims etc were not Poet models but different types of fedora altogether. I just tried all these others on just to seem relaxed about my choice rather than "Oh my G0d, there's the Indy Hat! Let me at it, let me at it!!"
I have been out in rain (not too heavey) and must admit that I let it dry out real slow at room temp, but it's fine. The water did 'bead' and roll off nicely when out and about. My main reason I guess for writing was to show that the staff there do have pride in the product and the IJ herritage and that the email thing , mainly I would imagine from you guys, i having an effect and forcing them to make a better product closer to the original.

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:11 am

ah right. still a fine piece of work. ill mine out in the rain too.

nicmusto · Post by **nicmusto** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:24 am

Vannevar, do you own ant other Indy hats, like an AB?

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:31 am

Now that was quite interesting. So behind all that eye-rolling, HJ REALLY has been taking our advice into consideration!

So basically what your saying is in order to get treated well by the shopkeepers, you have to act like they need you more than you need them? Wierd. And snobbish. Still, its good to know you can get a good hat from the HJ shop. Maybe they haven't gone completely to He**

Now to go work on my posh british accent.

:junior: -IJ

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:32 am

nicmusto wrote:Vannevar, do you own ant other Indy hats, like an AB?

Hiya, not yet. I have an AB on order with Steve though. I dont know how long it will take to get but I hope it will get here in about a month of so. An HJ was is my only hat. And its great. Make sure you soon get a hat jack on it for the night time though. I made a bit of mistake there. I' m going for an AB because of the beaver, the waterproofing, the craftmanship and last but not at all least, the very best customer service I have ever encountered.

nicmusto · Post by **nicmusto** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:40 am

I must admit that I would also like an AB as having read so many positive comments on the forum they seem like a sound buy. I think the HJ is a very well made hat, so I would be very interested to find out what the comparison is like against your HJ. Please let me know and also I'd be interested to know what the import tax is like as I note you are also based in the UK. I don't have a hat rack but do have domed object on top of the wardrobe that the head band sits nicley on so the brim doesn't get bent. Well I'm off to bed now as I've been on night shift, look forward to talking to you all later tonight.
Regards Nic

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:48 am

nicmusto wrote:I must admit that I would also like an AB as having read so many positive comments on the forum they seem like a sound buy. I think the HJ is a very well made hat, so I would be very interested to find out what the comparison is like against your HJ. Please let me know and also I'd be interested to know what the import tax is like as I note you are also based in the UK. I don't have a hat rack but do have domed object on top of the wardrobe that the head band sits nicley on so the brim doesn't get bent. Well I'm off to bed now as I've been on night shift, look forward to talking to you all later tonight.
Regards Nic

Unless the mannaquin head fits snugly up against a sweatband I heartily reccomend the hat jack as the sweatband has tightend a bit on mine and next time I'm in the USA im mailing it to Steve so he can strech it out a bit and give it a rebash. Dont worry about the review. The moment it comes I'll take an entire array of photos and make a webpage and submit it to the forum with what I hope to be a short essay detailing how well Steve has done.

nicmusto · Post by **nicmusto** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:13 pm

Firstly I have no idea that this going to work.
Secondly if it does, I don't always have such a fuzzy face

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/n ... ic0073.jpg
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/n ... ic0043.jpg

Let me know what you think- I shaped it myself.
Nic[/url]

Indiana Wayne · Post by **Indiana Wayne** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:16 pm

Great looking hat!

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:17 pm

So in other words, to recieve good customer service, you have to go through all this rigamarole, pretending, the entire time, not to be interested in what you really want, trick the salesman into thinking that's what you've decided to buy for reasons other than why you really want it? Just so you don't get some eyes rolled at you?

I don't like this. Nothin', not much, very little.

When a hattery takes on the contract to provide hats for a film, they should acknowledge that millions of people are going to see that film, whether it is Indiana Jones or Catch Me if you Can. They must also acknowledge that insofar as this being the case, that at least a few hundred people (out of the millions who see the films they provide hats for) are going to want to achieve the same look they see their heroes on the screen do. From Harrison Ford, to Tom Hanks. If said hattery doesn't like this, or thinks that, for whatever reason, it is gauche, maybe they should consider turning down the contract. Of course, that won't be happening, because the hattery wants to make the large amount of money associated with providing hats for film use.

Whether it's a nicely dressed englishman comes into the store or an American wearing khaki pants and a safari shirt is irrelevant. They are still a customer, most likely coming into that shop to buy. Whether they want a nice panama hat, or "one a' them Indiana Jones hats".

I wonder how they train their employees to deal with this issue?

"Now, you are going to get several chaps a month coming into this store, looking for the hats used in this dreadful movie. Here is where they are kept. They are a fanatical lot, to be regarded with disdain, as they are not the customers whom we wish to cater to."

AW, PHOOEY.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:43 pm

I just read your story at the HJ, i really enjoyed it and it was even pretty funny

nicmusto wrote:I needed a hat for when I'm walking the dog and one to take off the Kenya with me on safari.

this was great!!

The pics are really wonderful, could you take another from the right side?

ow, i nearly forgot... WELCOME TO COW

IndianaJones wrote:So basically what your saying is in order to get treated well by the shopkeepers, you have to act like they need you more than you need them? Wierd.

I'm very used to it, i live in Florence!

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:30 pm

Hiya, your right, it shouldnt be like that. However, we cant help if they are so cantankerous. They dont seem to care or relate and as I'm sure many of use know those guys have been in retail a very long time and the staff probably are so jaded as to not caring. We are only going to buy one hat, we arent regulars, we are going to buy a half a dozen at once. We're just dudes who come in off the street.

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:33 pm

Oh dude, one more question. Was the bash you bought at the shop anything like my avatar? My one is from november of last year and I think HJ changes its bash every once in awhile.

nicmusto · Post by **nicmusto** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:37 pm

Thanks erri_wan for the welcome and here is the right side pic.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/n ... ic0024.jpg

I also totally agree with Strider about customer care. Whether your from the States or UK, wearing smart clothes or street clothes, you should be treated with the same respect and high level of service that a shop of their quality advertises. My tale was about attempting to get a little information out of them with out asking direct questions (if that makes sense?).

I am also NOT going to pamper this hat- it was made for wearing and come high rain or shine, that's what's going to happen. If after a while things start going wrong with me and my HJ, I'll have to do a little research into Fedora's AB:

Fedora, you might get a call from a very uninterested over seas caller with an accent quite close to Prince Charles, you have been warned

nicmusto · Post by **nicmusto** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:39 pm

vannevar, the bash was just like my pics, the only thing I changed was the brim shape,
Nic

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Sat Aug 20, 2005 6:36 pm

Firstly I have to say congrats nicmusto on your success & also on a supprisingly good looking hat given what I've seen in the shop on my recent visit in June

I think what you guys need to consider is, the shop is not Herbert Johnson, it is Swain, Adeney, Brigg. Herbert Johnson is now just an in-house brand section of what is basically an expensive outfitters.

The people who deal with you are NOT hatters. They are sales staff of said expensive outfitters & are out to sell you stuff, the more expensive the better.

The actual hatter is down stairs in a back room. I know because I use to pick up my uniform hats from there after the old factory in Rushden adjusted them. Even then, the hatter from my interactions was a ladies hatter & not particularly knowledgable on other styles of hats (I my case certainly not uniform ones).

Unfortunately Striders assessment is correct, because that's certainly been my experience of dealing with upstairs, even thought I was a regular to their riding outfitters section once apon a time.

Adventure Lad · Post by **Adventure Lad** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:27 am

Howdy Nicmusto. Welcome the the board. Congrats on an excellent post and a nice looking hat.

Thats an interesting reaction you got, although to be honest I'm not too surprised. Remember that alot of people seem to think we're abit odd for collecting this kind of stuff ans as Skippy said these are only sales staff, who have no reason to be proud of their product or its history. Maybe they really do see it as just a fancy dress hat.

Of course it could all depend on the salesman. You could get a salesman whos a big indy fan. although I doubt it. Snobbery seems quite common in the posh shops in London. Going well dressed was probably a good idea. I think when I go I'd go straight in and ask about the Indy Hat. I'll dial down the crazy a bit but I wont ddisguise that fact I'm shopping there for a specific product.

Adventure Lad

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Mon Aug 22, 2005 4:41 am

"we are now using very high quality fur felt which has a very high natural water repellency" This seems to support this letter from HJ to "The Aviator" - Dear Sir,

Through a friend (a big fan) I have obtained one of the early hats made by Herbert Johnson and have begun a course of action to re-instate the original felt suppliers.

The felt supplier who made the original felt we still use for other hats and by the look of it will now be supplying the "Indy" felt again so I'm sorry I still can not divulge their name, but I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for opening my eyes to this oversight within the company which I hope to put right.

Kind regards,

PADDY · Post by **PADDY** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 11:31 am

Indiana Ken wrote:Time to work on my acting skills. Can a Northern Irish accent ever sound posh?

Ken

Ken, of course they are! Norn Iron is God's own country don't you know! I have two school friends who are both house masters at Eton College. Peter taught Prince William and Harry maths! Never noticed how the future King of England has a slight Ulster tinge to his accent now? haha.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Aug 30, 2005 12:04 pm

WELL done, nicmusto! As others have said, it's a shame you had to 'sneak' up on them to get proper information and help, but at least you had a successful and educational trip. You got more out of them than many of us have been able to do for years!!

I tip my fedora to you, sir!!

High regards! Michaelson

Reck · Post by **Reck** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:14 am

Great tale thanks!

Despite coming from Essex I can act posh, however my cheap ASDA (Walmart in U.S. I think) suit will give me away!

Do they make a burberry style one?

Kaleponi Craig · Post by **Kaleponi Craig** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:45 am

That's a great story and very interesting. Sure shows, though, the difference in how 'customer service' is defined across the pond. Salespeople who acted like they do at Herbert Johnson wouldn't last five minutes in almost any business here...KC

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:09 pm

Considering this original post and string was made over a year ago....I wonder if things are the same, especially since they've refurbished the store since this original posting?

Regards! Michaelson

Indiana Jimbo · Post by **Indiana Jimbo** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:20 am

As I'm now living in London, I'm thinking of paying them a visit. I heard some talk about the store being closed for renovations, is this still true?

To tell the truth, however, it's not HJ that I'm interested in visiting, I already did that, and it was quite literally the most disappointing expience of my year, but I want to check out James Lock hatters, across the street, because they have a head conformer. An AB Deluxe is in my near future.

Reck · Post by **Reck** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:54 am

Looks like James Lock Hatters have an online shop -

http://www.jameslock.co.uk/index.taf

They have quite a range of hats on display here, plus instructions on how to work out yout hat size in the FAQ section.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 11:02 am

This is old information, but from all reports I've read from folks who have visited both stores, Locke is about as opposite in terms of customer service to HJ as poles on a magnet. They LOVE walk-ins (or used to).

I also read that the HJ renovations were finished a couple months ago.

Regards! Michaelson

Ghos7a55assin · Post by **Ghos7a55assin** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:44 pm

nicmusto wrote: 1/ Don't have an American accent!
2/ Dress smartly as if you could buy the shopk if you wanted!
3/ Seem uninterested in THE hat!
4/ DO NOT ask any questions about the hat or its origins!
5/ They have improved the quality
and the most important of all:
6/ KEEP SENDING EMAILS AS THEY ARE LISTENING AND HAVE TAKEN ACTION!!!!

I've been to Swaine Addeney Brigg twice and the salesman there has always been quite kind to me. He actually recognized me my second time- I don't suppose many teenagers dress in vintage suits. I was prepared to buy "THE HAT" on my trip but the store was under renovation and they didn't have my size. So...I just stopped in to say hello 2 before their official reopening and chatted up the salesman about the current state of Saville Row, etc. etc.
Remember, Swaine Addeney Brigg is a haberdasher- they're not really a hatter in the traditional sense any more. I do recommend taking a look at their other products and not just their hats. Their sportscoats, tweed caps, umbrellas, briefcases are all top notch.

mark seven · Post by **mark seven** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 4:07 pm

Anyone know what price the poets are now,in the shop?,I'm going to London in a couple of weeks and it would be nice to come back with a HJ.

Indiana Lee · Post by **Indiana Lee** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:01 pm

That HJ looks pretty nice to me....but one question....is it just me or does the front brim seem too long. What size is this hat?

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 7:20 pm

Looks fine to me. :junior: -IJ

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 8:38 pm

nicmusto, do you any pics from the front dead on.

My visit to Herbert Johnson- things could be on the up!

My visit to Herbert Johnson- things could be on the up!

hat

Re: My visit to Herbert Johnson- things could be on the up!

Pics of my HJ

Re: My visit to Herbert Johnson- things could be on the up!

Re: My visit to Herbert Johnson- things could be on the up!

Posh Ulster Accents...!!

Re: My visit to Herbert Johnson- things could be on the up!

hat