"The Streets of Cairo" Crack

Alabama Jones · Post by **Alabama Jones** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 3:42 am

You know ... when Indy Pushes Marion in the haycart, then pulls the whip from his belt, tosses it back, then forward (underhanded), back and over again repeatedly. What crack is this, the circus crack? It took me forever to get this without lashing myself.

Eventually I noticed that I got a LOUD crack on the first underhand throw, followed by a quick overhead crack and repeat that makes a fast 1, 2, 3, 4 crack and repeat. (sometimes I even got a bonus or what I would call a "subcrack" when I pulled it back behind me after the underhand).

Having studied this scene for years its my favorite maneuver, especially after I finally got a kangaroo whip. I was just wondering, technically what crack is Indy performing here?

JAN · Post by **JAN** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 6:56 am

As I recall its a sidehand-crack (the savest one to make).
Note how Ford draws the whip over his head for a new
strike.

As for the cracks... I belive there where NO cracks when
shooting the scene - they were all added later... movies, You know

Best regards

JAN

Mola Ram · Post by **Mola Ram** » Sun Jul 31, 2005 4:20 pm

if you watch the 1st trailer,
you can hear the way the whip actually cracked.
They just jazzed it up abit in the final cut.
Adam

Andiana · Post by **Andiana** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:59 am

WolfPitWhips wrote:if you watch the 1st trailer,
you can hear the way the whip actually cracked.
They just jazzed it up abit in the final cut.
Adam

I noticed that too when I watched it on the DVD. As I cracked my own whip and heard the sounds of the whips at the Queen Mary Summit, I wondered "Why don't the whips make that awesome sound?". Then I found out that they take the real sound of the whip and slow it down a couple of notches, and make it louder.

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 1:35 am

They actually slowed them down and made them louder? That's it?!

Awesome!!!

Are you positive?

In Christ,
Shane

Andiana · Post by **Andiana** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:28 am

IndyMcFly wrote:They actually slowed them down and made them louder? That's it?!

Awesome!!!

Are you positive?

In Christ,
Shane

That's what I do anyways. I record my whip in an empty room (usually my school gym) and then take it to my sound editor, and slow down the sound. I imagine they do something like that (play around with the actual sound of a whip).
The sounds whips make in films are nothing like real whips (at least ones I've seen in person). I mean, a real whip in person, makes a loud SNAP. A whip in a film has a beautiful 'Wallappooo'.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:31 am

I remember in the EXTRAS there was Harrison practicing in a car parking and his whip sounded very indesque although for the movie they increased the soundeffect.

... maybe it was River Phoenix and not HF, cant remember.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:40 pm

Andiana wrote:A whip in a film has a beautiful 'Wallappooo'.

They have that at the zoo around the monkey cages, too.

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Wed Aug 10, 2005 6:42 pm

That's right, often next to the "Debranadoo". So, there.

Regards,
Swindiana

Andiana · Post by **Andiana** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:37 am

Bufflehead Jones wrote:
Andiana wrote:A whip in a film has a beautiful 'Wallappooo'.
They have that at the zoo around the monkey cages, too.

I had a good laugh about that one!

JAN · Post by **JAN** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:43 am

Actually try listen to the first whipchack in Raiders (disarming Barranca by the river).

(If You can´t recall it´s right here:)
http://www.indianajones.dk/Kopi%20af%20whip.wav

My whip does not sound at all like that, but Andiana´s sounddubbing,
may result in a sound like that. A "normally" whip in free air - no way.

Movies are deceptions...

Best regards

JAN

Andiana · Post by **Andiana** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:31 am

JAN wrote:Actually try listen to the first whipchack in Raiders (disarming Barranca by the river).

(If You can´t recall it´s right here:)
http://www.indianajones.dk/Kopi%20af%20whip.wav

My whip does not sound at all like that, but Andiana´s sounddubbing,
may result in a sound like that. A "normally" whip in free air - no way.

Movies are deceptions...

Best regards

JAN

VERY good example thanks for the sound link.

So, I'm not sure if Hollywood used the technique I do, but mine sounds pretty darn close.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:40 am

No doubt the whip sounds were reworked in post-production - to ensure an even quality if nothing else.

However, re: the Barranca scene - I think I know what you mean JAN - that higher-pitched, swirring sound which precedes the crack, right? I believe that's the sound of the fall and an unused nylon popper swung in the air, a sound usually not heard when cracking in normal speed. My ECWhip made that exact - albeit fainter - sound though, when the fall and popper were pristine and when the whip was only swung through the air in a "sub-crack" speed... I believe that sound was edited and amplified for FX purposes...

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:22 am

Scandy;
You mean the "Swiiinsschhssaah", just before the "Wallappooo", right?

Don Martin is back.

Regards,
Swindiana

Andiana · Post by **Andiana** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:42 am

Swindiana wrote:Scandy;
You mean the "Swiiinsschhssaah", just before the "Wallappooo", right?

Don Martin is back.

Regards,
Swindiana

Now we have these great 'whip-cracking' sound descriptions...lol

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:14 am

The fact that they accentuated or totally replaced the whip cracks is not a slam on Harrison. Chances are, the audio is completely replaced because the stunt coordinator was shouting out directions in that scene, or was doing the action on counts, (like dancers have 4 beats to hit their mark. Lots of stunt coordinators do things the same way. Keeps timing for dangerous stunts on track.)

Plus:

There IS NO microphone that can reproduce the experience of BEING NEXT TO a whip when it cracks. When that whip cracks, you're not just hearing it with your ears, you're also picking up vibrations from other tissue. Like when you stand close to a bass amp, and you can feel it in your gut, your teeth, your toes. Whips don't have quite that dramatic an effect, but it's the same thing.

Dynamic microphones typically don't have the range to reproduce that, and (expensive,) condenser microphones would most likely be damaged by the volume, (and Neumann Condenser microphones cost more than my car!)

There's a lot of subtle acoustical dynamics in that piece of nylon and leather zipping past at 750+ MPH. Stuff I recorded of Canasta, Adam Winrich, and Paul Nolan, (among others,) with a couple condensers and a dynamic microphone at the Annie Oakley a couple weeks ago, sounds pretty good, but it's certainly not the same as the experience of being right THERE.

Looks as though I'm going to shoot a short feature that we're taking to the Sundance Festival in a couple years, (too early to discuss in detail. Don't want to jinx it! I'll keep you informed, though.) Lots of whip cracks in that, and I plan on tweaking it out in editing: Pitch-shifting it down a bit, adding some reverb, and accentuate the bass frequencies to really give it some menace. Sounds to me that's what the sound designer for Raiders did.

I'm also going to add in a small, subtle bit of guitar distortion to give it an electrical "thunder/lightning" hiss. I'm going for a stylized "John Woo/Sergio Leone-with-whips" so I WANT it to be a little more over-the-top ;-)

Andiana · Post by **Andiana** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 4:39 am

^
^
^

Great explanation there TheFish!

I tested my theory of 'slowing down the sound' today b filming myself doing some cracks. I then went to my editing program and looked at the raw footage. The raw footage's sound was horrible! The whip just made a sound like a twig being broken, and it didn't sound like ANYTHING I heard when I was actually cracking it (it sounded a lot better I assure you!). So then I took my sound editor and slowed down the sound a couple notches. Then it sounded like something from the films (not perfectly though). What i usually do is record my whip in an empty room (usually my school gym) and then take it to my sound editor, and slow down the sound then.

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:27 am

I don't know what you're using for editing, but if you can isolate JUST the crack and then add a little reverb and bass boost it, (if you can't submix, copy the sound and paste it in an ajacent track so that it lines up exactly with the original crack, and then use a low pass filter on it to really accentuate the lower harmonics.)

Little trick from my earlier days in audio mixing, (before I had better tools!)

Have fun!

-Dan

JerseyJones · Post by **JerseyJones** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:50 pm

Andiana wrote:
IndyMcFly wrote:They actually slowed them down and made them louder? That's it?!

Awesome!!!

Are you positive?

In Christ,
Shane
A whip in a film has a beautiful 'Wallappooo'.

Hmmm.....mine just makes a Hullaballooo !

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:45 pm

I used to have one of those cheapo goat skin whips with a baling twine belly.

You know.

The ones made in India.

When it cracked, it went "Babaganoush!"

BA DUMP BUMP! ;-)

I'll get my hat...

-Dan

Andiana · Post by **Andiana** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:11 pm

JerseyJones wrote:
Andiana wrote:
IndyMcFly wrote:They actually slowed them down and made them louder? That's it?!

Awesome!!!

Are you positive?

In Christ,
Shane
A whip in a film has a beautiful 'Wallappooo'.

Hmmm.....mine just makes a Hullaballooo !

"Hullaballo, a mixidaboo, a bibidibobidyboo, put together and what do you get? Bibidibobidyboo!"

I had to get a Disney lyric in there....

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:27 pm

Andiana wrote:
Bufflehead Jones wrote:
Andiana wrote:A whip in a film has a beautiful 'Wallappooo'.
They have that at the zoo around the monkey cages, too.
I had a good laugh about that one!

Andiana, I'm just glad that you didn't get mad at me about this one, like you did about the six foot barrel. I didn't think you would ever forget about that one.

Zach R. · Post by **Zach R.** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 8:46 pm

Well, if he forgot about it you just reminded him.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 9:05 pm

Dang, there I went and did it, again.

Andiana · Post by **Andiana** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 10:00 pm

Bufflehead Jones wrote:
Andiana wrote:
Bufflehead Jones wrote:
Andiana wrote:A whip in a film has a beautiful 'Wallappooo'.
They have that at the zoo around the monkey cages, too.
I had a good laugh about that one!
Andiana, I'm just glad that you didn't get mad at me about this one, like you did about the six foot barrel. I didn't think you would ever forget about that one.

I will hunt you down and gut you like a fish....

Hah, I actually forgot about that little 'sixe foot barrel' thing, but now that you reminded me, I think I'll find that gun....hehehehe....

thefish · Post by **thefish** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:48 am

Gut him like thefish! What? What did I do man! I'm a victim of circumstance!

Everybody stay back. I have a Joe Strain whip! And a lucky lighter! I'm not good enough with the whip to keep anyone at bay, but I can threaten to set it on fire! That will keep you gearheads squirming! ;-)

-Dan

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:06 pm

My whip makes your garden variety (albeit LOUD) "crack."
I thought that's why it's called a crack anyway (onomatopoeia).
... not that your new words aren't entertaining, mind you.

P.S.> Zach R: Nice Big Sleep Quote Dude.

... here's another:
"My, my, my!
Such a lot of guns around town and so few brains!
You know, you're the second guy I've met today that
seems to think a gat in the hand means the world by the tail."

prairiejones · Post by **prairiejones** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:18 am

98% of all sounds in every major motion picture, other than the main dialogue, are done in post-production. Even some dialogue is over-dubbed if they find the quality to be poor. But everything else is done post-production. Whip-cracks, gunshots, punches, footsteps, removing the top of the well of souls, shoving the rock out, etc.

Ark Hunter · Post by **Ark Hunter** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:56 pm

JAN wrote:Movies are deceptions...

All my hopes and dreams dashed!

But everything else is done post-production. Whip-cracks, gunshots, punches, footsteps, removing the top of the well of souls, shoving the rock out, etc.

Yeah, I don't think a "rubber" rock would make such a nice grinding sound.

I'm not sure a real rock/stone would make that sound either. Once again DECEPTION, LIES!

I think they loop a lot more of the dialogue in post now days too. Especially in action/adventure type movies.