The grey indy hat is gray!

[Texas Raider]

OH, Man! That hat is SOOO brown!! Look at that brown ribbon! Irrefutable evidence! That is a very light brown hat reflecting a pseudo- greyish tone from the lighting! Easily misconstrued as grey, but definitely brown! I've also looked over the scenes with the Nazi's hat. I don't think there are remains of a tight pinch, but there is simply a soft pinch and bash in his hat. I'll try and get some grabs of what I'm talking about.

I also agree with Agent5- this is what I've been saying all along! I'm sure there were some grey hats made and delivered to the costume dept. Whether or not they were used in production or specifically WORN by Harrison Ford is unknown. Pure speculation. But everyone assumes because of this info. that this is one of the grey hats to which they were refering-simply cause it doesn't look as brown as his 'adventure' hat. They are definitely two different hats. But they are two different BROWN hats. One his 'adventure' brown hat , one his 'dress' brown hat.

my theory.


have a nice day.



have a nice day.

[Zach R.]

I've been following this subject but I haven't chimed in.

In light(no pun intended) of that photo evidence, I don't see how anyone could possibly think that the hat in question is anything but a grey hat with brown undertones.

If there was a different hatter that made light brown dress hats for the movie, I'm almost positive that we would have heard about it. Either by those involved or the hatter themselves perpetrating the fact that they made the hat seen in Indiana Jones.

[Texas Raider]

I believe there were many, many hats (50?) of many shades of brown, and, from info we have, grey. Feel free to correct me, for I'm not 100% certain of this, but it seems I remember reading or hearing it somewhere, here.



have a nice day.

[Renderking Fisk]

I'm not 100% certain of this...

Don't worry, nobody here is 100% sure... just have strong feelings and convictions.

[Dre]

I've been following this subject but I haven't chimed in.

In light(no pun intended) of that photo evidence, I don't see how anyone could possibly think that the hat in question is anything but a grey hat with brown undertones.

If there was a different hatter that made light brown dress hats for the movie, I'm almost positive that we would have heard about it. Either by those involved or the hatter themselves perpetrating the fact that they made the hat seen in Indiana Jones.

i agree..it's definetely grey.

And why cant someone wear a brown ribbon on a gray hat? i dont see how this is evidence that it is brown. If you ask me a brown ribbon on a grey hat really doesnt look so bad

[Indiana Texas-girl]

So if the brown camp can say it's brown with gray overtones and the gray camp can say it's gray with brown undertones, can we just say we're all correct?

[Mattdeckard]

OH, Man! That hat is SOOO brown!! Look at that brown ribbon! Irrefutable evidence! That is a very light brown hat reflecting a pseudo- greyish tone from the lighting! Easily misconstrued as grey, but definitely brown! I've also looked over the scenes with the Nazi's hat. I don't think there are remains of a tight pinch, but there is simply a soft pinch and bash in his hat. I'll try and get some grabs of what I'm talking about.

It's like arguing for a flat earth.

[Renderking Fisk]

I just saw pictures of the Earth from Discovery...

... and it looks like round. Except when the pictures are of low quality... then it looks flat. I think it's the lighting.

Which raises the question - If you're in orbit and weighless, and after the launch you swap your helmet for your fedora: How does it stay on?

Is a snug fit good enough?

[Feraud]

So if the brown camp can say it's brown with gray overtones and the gray camp can say it's gray with brown undertones, can we just say we're all correct?

Exactly!
btw, I thought Michaelson had it on good authority regarding the hat color?

[Fedora]

As usual, MK is the revealer of all things!! Thanks MK. Fedora

[Dalexs]

OK boys and girls, I pretty much think we've beaten this horse to death.
Unless someone, (anyone) comes up with irrefutable evidence, lets just say the hat may be gray, and for those who want to think it, it may be brown.

'nuff said!

Now back to the "boxer or briefs" disscusion!

Dalexs

[agent5]

Is that a joke or do you seriously not want us to post about this anymore?

[Mojave Jack]

OK, that settles that! Now, what color were those socks again?

[Pyroxene]

Is that a joke or do you seriously not want us to post about this anymore?

Sounds like he is serious to me. HF seems to have several things in contest with whatever he does. The Blue/Brown coat from ESB is one that comes to mind.

I say we just call it a draw...

[Renderking Fisk]

Is that a joke or do you seriously not want us to post about this anymore?

Sounds like he is serious to me. HF seems to have several things in contest with whatever he does. The Blue/Brown coat from ESB is one that comes to mind.

I say we just call it a draw...

Can you buy a brown ESB Solo jacket? Is that possible?

[Bufflehead Jones]

By my calculations, there seems to be exactly two people on planet earth that think the hat is brown. I guess it is not a bad thing to be a member of an exclusive club.

[Mattdeckard]

So my questionis, can you see the wire in the brim of the grey hat?

[Renderking Fisk]

By my calculations, there seems to be exactly two people on planet earth that think the hat is brown. I guess it is not a bad thing to be a member of an exclusive club.

There's you, me... who else?

[Bufflehead Jones]

Oh, no, no, no, not me! I am one of the millions that think that it is gray. I didn't know that you thought it was brown. If that is the case, then I guess you are the brown club's newest member. Just think, they just had a growth rate of fifty per cent.

[Mattdeckard]

Don't forget, Indiana John thought it was brown too.

[agent5]

So my question is, can you see the wire in the brim of the grey hat?

OMG, that made me laugh out loud!

Just for the record, I don't think it's a brown hat, but gray with the brown undertones to match the obvious brown ribbon and the red tones in the rest of the costume.

[MK]

One thing that you need to consider is that most of you have average monitors that have not been professionally calibrated for color. Lets take a look at something.

Describe the colors you see. What is grey and what is brown? Which one do you think is the color of the hat in question? This is not a trick question.

[Dalexs]

Geez, you'd think he'd at least give ustheanswers in inviso text or something...

And no Agent5, I wasn't joking... dead horse no smell good anymore...

[Mola Ram]

Im using a high Def drafting monitor,
and all of that looks blueish, purpleish, grey.

[agent5]

See, with MK's color chart this is nowhere near a dead horse. In any case, this is a forum, right? A place of discussion? Nobody was out of line AT ALL so why can't some of us just go on discussing this even if you or others think it is dead? What does it matter? It just doesn't make sense to me, but then again, I'm not a mod and I probably just don't know any better. I mean, if we were all down each others throats about it and argueing the point, but we're simply discussing our opinions on the matter, peacefully. I could care less if there were previous threads, I'm enjoying this one and it seems I'm not the only one. I mean, I don't wanna start any arguement over this since there wasn't one to begin with but look at it from my point of view, please. I keep checking back on this thread, very interested in it and all of the sudden it's like, "OK, we think that's enough". :

In any case, I played quite a bit with the temps on my monitor and I keep seeing gray for 2 and 3 but 1 and 4 stand out as having a more brownish hue. What's the answer?

[BendingOak]

they all have grey in them two with some blue(2&3) and the other two with some brown(1&4).

[MK]

Don't forget to say which one you think is the color of the flying boat hat.

[Alabama Jones]

I posted this in the other thread...

Here is a pic of a gray Stetson Indy from the 1980's . I had one just like it and it looked much more gray in person than in this pic, which looks , admittedly, brownish-gray.



Compare it with the the brown fur Indy Stetson from the same era ... (I had one of these also, several actually and dang look at the price. )

http://pages.tias.com/12435/PictPage/1922600343.html

I think this demonstrates the difference in the two film hats as I believe they were different colors. Still not CONCRETE evidence the hat was gray, but combined with the fact the manufacturer and Props Dpt say it was, a majority of gearheads who think it was, and the fact Stetson produced TWO treplica hats (one in each color Indy wore in Raiders IMO) and its a pretty dang good case.

On my work computer the pic looks gray, at home it looks brownish. In real life though, it was VERY gray.

[Mattdeckard]

I'd say #1 looks like the color of the hat.

I think they are all grey with #4 LEANING toward brown.

[agent5]

On my monitor, #2 is the color match of the hat.

[Indyjim]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y103/I ... er1-vi.jpg
#1 and #4 look brown, #2 and #3 look gray, with the closest to the hat in the link above being #3

[MK]

This is a good lesson because I learned something myself.

CMYK: Cyan, Megenta, Yellow and blacK. These are the four colors that all color printing are made from. That is my world because I am a magazine publisher. When I created these colors in photoshop, I did it in CMYK. In order to post it on the web, I had to convert it to RGB (red, green, blue).

Grey is normally thought of as a combination of black and white. RGB has no black, so it simulates it by combining equal amounts of all three colors with the white light of the screen to produce black or grey.

For example number three was created with 0% cyan, 0% megenta, 0 yellow and about 65% black. (the original CMYK file is at the office) Yet in RGB it is 93% red, 93 % green and 93% blue.

Number three was the greyscale equivlent (sp?) to the hat in question. Number 2 is the color taken straight from Ford's hat in my example photo. It has 95% red, 89% green and 89% blue. What this means is it is a warm grey.

Number four is 100% red, 89% green, and 83% blue.

Number one is 102% red, 94% green and 91% blue. It has 102% red because RGB can't convert everything from CMYK.

The warm tan background of these pages also played a part in the way you saw the colors.

[BendingOak]

mk , how does all this help? images you made up off a computer to match something shot on film ,then a sreen cap. taken and then posted. Something had to be lost in all that transfer.

[Bufflehead Jones]

Unfortunately, I didn't get to post before MK posted his answers, but before I read any further, I thought it was #3. #2 was a real close second. I do wish that the screen cap of Ford and the color samples had been on the same page and preferably right next to each other so that I could see them at the same time.

I was trying to match these color samples to the front of the brim of the hat as I think this is the truest color of the hat. I think in that photo, the crown of the hat has some shadows from the front pinch and front dents.

Thanks MK for taking the time and effort to provide a fun exercise that I think really added to this discussion.

[Indyjim]

MK, this is very interesting. I opened the photo of the hat from this link http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y103/I ... er1-vi.jpg
then copied the image to my clipboard, then opened the image in Photoshop. I took the color picker and
picked a point on the front brim of the hat. When
the color is shown on the little box on the bottom of the tool bar on the left
I clicked on that to view the component colors. From the point I picked I got values of R-125, G-121, B-120.
Almost a perfect middle, but not quite neutral, gray. If the hat had been all black, the values would have been RGB 0,0,0
or pure white RGB 255,255,255. The hat I'm viewing on my screen is indeed gray.
Of course this still doesn't proof the hat is gray (I believe it is) because the color of the hat could be altered on my screen,
but then all the other colors would be altered as well. As a further check, I set the color picker on the white shirt collar
and those values were R-234, G-225, B-230. Pretty darn close to neutral white, with not much color bias.
So the values of the shirt are white and the values of the hat are gray.
I checked a brown hat from the venice pier scene, with values of RGB 70, 43, 32. A long long way from gray by any stretch.

[Texas Raider]

MK, what screen grab or pic did you take your sample color from? Can you post it to see. If you pick a scene where it LOOKS predominantely grey, your color experiment is going to be scewed. Obviously, I could do the same experiment(if I knew how ) and come up with the opposite(brown) if I picked a frame where it is predominantely brown. My whole argument here is that THE LIGHTING is making the hat APPEAR grey! If you take a sample from a frame where the illusion of grey is there, than the computer will simply re-create that illusional color that is on the screen( is this clear at all?). The problem is that people are taking the color at face value and not trying at all to discern between the two. The proof I've seen are postings of members BROWN hats that suddenly look GREY! With the caption "I don't know why my hat looks grey in the pics, but it is brown".. It's because the LIGHTING-MAKES-IT-LOOK-GREY!

If it is from this pic
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y103/I ... er1-vi.jpg
than please do the same with the ribbon in that frame, (if you wouldn't mind)


have a nice day.

[Texas Raider]

O.K. which of these hats is the grey one? Left, right, or middle? Click pic for larger image.

[URL=http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php ... .jpg[/img][/url]

[Pandora]

I'd say the first one is grey.

[Marc]

None at all, but I still believe that the hat in the clipper was grey

Regards,

Marc

[Dre]

off topic but i just had to ask - is there really controversy over the colour of han solo's jacket in ESB?

i thought it was definetely dark blue and nothing else? and can you actually buy these han solo jackets?

[Pyroxene]

off topic but i just had to ask - is there really controversy over the colour of han solo's jacket in ESB?

i thought it was definetely dark blue and nothing else?

Yes. http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_060403b.htm


http://www.jedinet.com/collecting/asset ... parkas.jpg

[Dre]

oh right...thought they meant the jacket he wears the rest of the movie

[Texas Raider]

I'd say the first one is grey.

Thank you, Pandora. It's nice to see that someone has the manners to give a respectful, courteous response.


have a nice day.

[BendingOak]

I would have to say the first one is grey, but I also had a pic of my brown AB look very grey.

[MK]

MK, what screen grab or pic did you take your sample color from? Can you post it to see. If you pick a scene where it LOOKS predominantely grey, your color experiment is going to be scewed. Obviously, I could do the same experiment(if I knew how ) and come up with the opposite(brown) if I picked a frame where it is predominantely brown. My whole argument here is that THE LIGHTING is making the hat APPEAR grey! If you take a sample from a frame where the illusion of grey is there, than the computer will simply re-create that illusional color that is on the screen( is this clear at all?). The problem is that people are taking the color at face value and not trying at all to discern between the two. The proof I've seen are postings of members BROWN hats that suddenly look GREY! With the caption "I don't know why my hat looks grey in the pics, but it is brown".. It's because the LIGHTING-MAKES-IT-LOOK-GREY!

If it is from this pic
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y103/I ... er1-vi.jpg
than please do the same with the ribbon in that frame, (if you wouldn't mind)


have a nice day.

Please go back and re-read my posts in this thread and you will find the information and hopefully clear this us.

[Texas Raider]

MK, thanks, yes it does. Now, if I could please convince you to do this same experiment this way. Instead of reproducing the color of an area of the hat that is predominantly grey looking, please do the ribbon and the upper right side of the hat-- ie, the right bash(our right,his left). I would ask you to do this to show that it is all in the lighting. This type of experiment will be tainted that way. You picked out the greyest section of hat to reproduce your colors, so obviously the computer will reproduce that grey color. If I am incorrect , this will also show that as well. It's an unbiased experiment. If you could, please post the colors in a block just like you did, with your greyish color you came up with in one corner, the ribbon color in another corner, and the bash color in another corner. Just put white in the 4th corner as a control. Can you do this ,please?

thank you for taking the time!



have a nice day.

[Texas Raider]

I'd say #1 looks like the color of the hat.

I think they are all grey with #4 LEANING toward brown.

Now this is interesting, I NEVER saw it this way! #1 and #4 were OBVIOUSLY tannish/brown to me. #2 and #4 were greys. Does this mean I'm still color blind to anyone?

It's no wonder this is at a deadlock!! Everyone sees greys and browns differently! It's that same argument, "is grey to me REALLY grey to you? or is it green?or brown? or blue?"



have a nice day.

[Texas Raider]

Never mind, MK, I figured it out (I'm horribly LAME on the computer ) anyway, I took that frame and separated the colors by sampling the color I wanted and coloring the squares(duh)- SO- I sampled the brim,bow,both bashes,ribbon,his tie,the collar of his shirt, and his suit. All for comparison. I also sampled the back wall and that wicker-looking wall. ALSO to show the diversity of this experiment and how it is flawed, I sampled his face-his left cheek and his face under the brim of the hat. Look how drastically different they are. And his suit looks BLACK! (I know, I know, it's blue!)

In conclusion- you cannot go by this experiment. The lighting changes every color. So if the lighting makes the hat SEEM grey(which I say is happening) then the computer will just duplicate those (albeit wrong) colors. Hence, it's biased! You can pick out the greyest looking section and place it here as an example and everyone will go "SEE!! it IS grey!"(and by the same token, I could pick out the brownest looking section and do the same)
Please clik on the pic for larger,clearer image.

[URL=http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php ... .png[/img][/url]


have a nice day.

[Texas Raider]

Hmmmm 4 posts by lonely 'ol me guess I'm discussing this w/myself--oh, well. Anyway-

exhibit B- (as always, clic for bigger image)

[URL=http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php ... .png[/img][/url]

As you can see, you can do this with any pic. I mean , come on! Do we really think the ribbon is THAT color on the Cairo hat?

Once again, I'm not trying to cause trouble here I just think this discussion in far from over and being solved. So I'm trying to help everyone understand where I am coming from here. The lighting can play tricks on our eyes.

Yes, yes, we have the unindubitubblly irreffuuttiblel evidence from Michaelson, but that just cannot be the determining factor of WHICH HAT was used in THESE SCENES,,because we just DON'T KNOW for sure! There is no proof(sadly).



have a nice day.

[Canyon]

Gee.....I'm scared to reply to this thread in case I get things thrown at me, but here goes.

I have been watching Raiders for 16 years now, and have always been of the opinion that the hat seen where Indy boards the plane for Nepal, and the scene at the end in Washington that the hat is grey. However, I am unsure as to what colour the ribbon is.

A theory I have is that different people see colours differently, which has been medically proven. http://ep.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_ ... SION_NUM=1 and just out of interest, women see colours differently to men
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20 ... color.html

Lastly, I love this place, but hate it when people jump down each other's throats, simply because they do not share the same views.

Oh dear...