Thin Jacket

Indyjim · Post by **Indyjim** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:09 am

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/p ... 2/indy.jpg
Looking at this picture of Indy, I noticed the very thin appearance of his
jacket. I have 2 US Wings jackets, and they are both heavier and thicker looking than this.
I have the vintage cowhide and the New Zealand lamb.
Both nice jackets but the lamb is definitely better suited for colder weather,
as it is a heavier, thicker, puffier leather and looks more like a heavy cold weather jacket.
My question is, does the goat or the lamb, from either Wested or Flightsuits, achieve the very
thin look of the jacket in this picture? It looks more like a heavy leather shirt than it does a jacket.
The jacket worn in LC also appears, to me, to be a thicker and heavier leather as well, when compared to this picture.
Which leather would be most likely to achieve this look?

Flattery · Post by **Flattery** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:14 am

I have a Raiders lambskin from Wested that looks exactly the same (save for the nickel zipper and the color).

Lambskin will look "thinner" once it's broken in some.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 11:52 am

I agree with Flattery; my Wested authentic lamb is just as thin.

agent5 · Post by **agent5** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:22 pm

Lambskin will look "thinner" once it's broken in some.

Bingo!

Ghos7a55assin · Post by **Ghos7a55assin** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:05 pm

lamb is definitely better suited for colder weather,
as it is a heavier, thicker, puffier leather and looks more like a heavy cold weather jacket.

I'm not sure if you mean cow for this? I mean, all leather can be used in cold weather, as it is a good wind breaker/seal over any layering, but lamb is infamously known as the lightest of the bunch.

Indyjim · Post by **Indyjim** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 2:42 pm

To clarify my statement, my New Zealand lamb looks and feels like a cold
weather jacket. It is bulky, even without any insulation of any sort.
Wearing it in even 50 degree temps, to me, looks somewhat out of place, due to the bulk of the jacket.
The vintage cow is better, still warm and all that, but has a thinner more tailored look to it.
The reason I am asking about the lamb or goat is because I have an A-2 in goat and it has a "thin" feel to it.
I've had the A-2 for some time and I remember when it arrived I immediately noticed its lack of bulk and weight.
It obviously doesn't hang or drape as well, due to the knit cuffs and waist but the jacket doesn't look or feel bulky or heavy
but trim and fitted. I've worn it in a variety of temps and it doesn't look like you have a winter jacket on in late spring when
temps are in the 60's. Possibly sizing has something to do with how bulky a jacket fits as well. A 44R in fitted jackets fits me
just about right but a"Large" especially in Wings products, may be a little big, contributing to the bulky look.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:50 pm

I think the difference is in the quality of the hides.

Flattery · Post by **Flattery** » Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:57 pm

I think the difference is in the quality of the hides.

Precisely how I would've put it.

In the end, though, leather will only keep you warm if the temperature isn't too cold. Even though it's thin, the Wested lambskin can keep you fairly toasty, but only if you layer properly.

I don't remember who it was (Michaelson, maybe?) who had said that when it comes to choosing leathers, don't pick what would keep you warm, but what would keep you coolest in warm weather. Something like that. Anyway, it was good advice.

Alabama Jones · Post by **Alabama Jones** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:01 am

Jim, I too perceive the original Raiders jacket to be a lighter and "thinner" leather than the Wested I got. I have a Leather Concessionaires jacket (pre-Wested) from 1990 that is much lighter and "thinner" than my current Wested. It could be age and "duress", but I suspect its due more to hide differences. The "LC" drapes and zips much looser and lighter than the current Wested I own and, IMO, gives more of a Raiders-esque look.

The Raiders jacket, to me, looks almost like a leather windbreaker which is more belivable to what one could wear in 100 + temps.

Indyjim · Post by **Indyjim** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 6:49 am

That is exactly what I am looking for, a jacket almost like a leather windbreaker or heavy shirt, that could be worn in warmer temps.
I think this has been mentioned before, but does anyone know which leather is actually thinner, goat or lamb? I know there is a big difference in the tensile strength between the two for a given thickness.

Flattery · Post by **Flattery** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:20 am

...but does anyone know which leather is actually thinner, goat or lamb?

I have both, and my lamb is thinner. Over time my TOD goat has become almost as "loose" as the lamb jacket and hangs just about the same, but there's a little more bulk with the goat (not in a bad way).

I guess if you're looking for a jacket that is the closest match to the film jackets, you should go with lambskin, but for durability I'd choose goat or cow. So if you're going to get a lambskin jacket, be sure to ask for x-box stitching on the side straps; otherwise they could tear off if snagged or pulled without much effort.

Overall, goat is relatively the same while being more stiff, but the lamb sure is nice to wear.

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 8:35 am

And then to add even further discussion to the topic - coming from Peter, yesterday's lamb compare to today's goat in thickness and drape due to different methods in treating and preparing the hides.

Regards,
Swindiana

Kt Templar · Post by **Kt Templar** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 9:15 am

Here's one for you, I have a couple of samples in my desk drawer. Don't ask me why!

The goat is definately still thicker than the lamb. Measures in at approx 1.5 -1.75 mm thick, the lamb is in comparison approx 1mm thick.

Top is lamb bottom is goat.

Ditto

Both dark brown.

Regards,

KT

Indyjim · Post by **Indyjim** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:09 am

Is Peter saying current goat is thinner than previous goat hides, which maybe accounts for greater suppleness and drape in goat. Goat was always considered somewhat stiff, if I recall past threads about vintage goat jackets.
I know my A-2 isn't stiff, and I really like it. It might drape exceedingly well
if it weren't for the knit cuffs and waist.

Great comparison photos of the thickness. Thanks. When you are referring to something only 1mm thick, 50 to 75% more makes a great difference.

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:17 am

No, the other way around I think. Lamb was thick back then, or would at least compare to todays goat.

Regards,
Swindiana

Bjones · Post by **Bjones** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:47 am

Great pics...

Hmm..the lamb is really thin. Based on the thickness ~1mm and lamb's inherent properties, I doubt I will consider one in this hide(at least given my track record for wear and tear). But then again, for the sake of appearance, this explains in a simple picture why the lamb drapes so well - soft and thin. It really is the best looking, and now with some minor investigation, we all can see why.

For comparison, I measured my HH to be ~2mm thick.

Indyjim · Post by **Indyjim** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 11:59 am

That's twice as thick. Substantial difference!

shadwell55 · Post by **shadwell55** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 12:04 pm

Back in March I ordered the US wings indy goat. when I got it I was amazed by how heavy the jacket was. It felt like you described--a cold weather coat--very thick and bulky.

I returned it for a refund (after a month of calling them asking for the refund) and got a wested. Lighter, thinner, more comfortable. The jackets were toally different.

My office is 59 degrees because of a new a/c system and I wear my Wested. I am totally comfortable in it. I could not do that in the Wings

Indyjim · Post by **Indyjim** » Fri Jul 15, 2005 2:11 pm

That's interesting Shadwell. When I first got my Wings goat A-2, the first thing I was struck by was how light and thin the jacket was compared to two other leather jackets I owned. I expected a much bigger package when it came. Anyone know how the Flightsuits goat or lamb compares to the Westeds we've been discussing?

Thin Jacket

Thin Jacket

US wings vs Wested