The Big Head Dilemma

Little Venice · Post by **Little Venice** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:55 pm

I visited the Herbert Johnson shop during my lunch break today. Funny I've been there before but never realised they made the Indy hat until I started reading COW (this forum, not some bovine dialect).

I asked the kind gentleman to show me the Indiana Jones fedora, and he was most obliging. I was honestly a little unimpressed with what it looked like, it was very floppy and the bash didn't seem to hold at all - and was different from one hat on the stand to another. The brim was also a bit off too. In fact if he hadn't told me it was *the* model then I never would have guessed it. Please don't think I'm trying to offend HJ owners, this is just my own opinion

Okay on to the meat of this topic. I tried on all the sizes they had and nothing fit me. I even tried one on that was marked 7 5/8 (my approximate size is 61cm) - but it just didn't fit. I felt dejected when I left, finding hats to fit me has always been a nightmare - I don't want to be stuck with beanies and ski masks - the latter is particularly difficult to explain in social situations!

I think my problem is that I have a more oval shaped head, and not a more "normal" ?rounder shape. I'm almost at my wits end when it comes to finding something that fits, and bespoke hats can be painfully expensive.

Does anyone know of a good manufacturer who makes hats for the cranially well-endowed?

Does anyone else have this problem?

ScottFree · Post by **ScottFree** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:25 pm

Hi Little Venice, I see on the Fedora Lounge that Rocky Mountain Hatters caters to larger heads up to 8 3/8. I also read on the Sterling Beaver Saloon, that ###### seems to actually have some special accommodations for the cranially endowed. There is one gentleman there as well that seems to be an 8 3/8 if I recall it correctly and some mention of sizes up to a 9 I think I read or got an email on this. I thought I was a huge size at 7 5/8 until I inquired if they produced hats this large in custom.

Cheers

Scott

Zach R. · Post by **Zach R.** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:26 pm

Size nine? Looks like Strider will need one of those to fit over his helmet.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:30 pm

Have you actually taken a tape measure and measured around the area of your head that you wear a hat to see what size you DO wear? I'm surprised they didn't do this at HJ rather than just hand you hats to try on for size.

The shape over/long oval etc factors in, of course, but the actual measurement determines your size.
Regards! Michaelson

DanoSaurus · Post by **DanoSaurus** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:33 pm

Little Venice wrote: I think my problem is that I have a more oval shaped head, and not a more "normal" ?rounder shape. I'm almost at my wits end when it comes to finding something that fits, and bespoke hats can be painfully expensive.

This is called a "long oval" and you're right, a regular round hat will never fit right. You can either look for a 7 5/8 L.O. (I think some manufacturers still make these, certainly custom hatters do...maybe Steve D.?) or get a regular size and use a stretcher (like the "Hat Jack") to stretch it front to back creating a long oval shape. Check out this page:

http://www.noggintops.com/cgi-bin/webc. ... 5321547.c1

To create a long oval, you should use a smaller stretcher than is specified for your hat size, like maybe the medium.

Good Luck!

ScottFree · Post by **ScottFree** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:52 pm

LV, I should correct myself here. I have always worn 7 5/8 but found them tight front to rear and large on the sides. I ordered a custom hat some time back and go this halo thing that took my head shape and found that I am actually just over 7 1/2 but a long oval. The hatter is going to make a block of my head bust and the then build the hat to conform to it. This is a rather unique experience for me and I am quite intrigued by it all. I have near 50 hats in 7 5/8 and some of the softer ones have adjusted over a life time to my head shape but the western and stiffer hats never fit me well and got little wear.

Cheers

Scott

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:54 pm

Ah, so you've used a 'conformer' for sizing. That's the VERY best way to measure for your true head size and shape. Regards! Michaelson

Little Venice · Post by **Little Venice** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:08 pm

Wow, talk about an encouraging response

I think Steve "Fedora" at Adventurebilt has, or had, a block for 7 5/8". Unless that was the one a dog ate. Looks like you're headed for an Adventurebilt, Little Venice. Wink

I sent Steve a message, just waiting until he wades through what must be plenty of other enquiries

Have you actually taken a tape measure and measured around the area of your head that you wear a hat to see what size you DO wear? I'm surprised they didn't do this at HJ rather than just hand you hats to try on for size. Eh? The shape over/long oval etc factors in, of course, but the actual measurement determines your size.
Regards! Michaelson

Indeed I have measured my head with a tape measure and it comes to 61cm's around. They didn't rush me with a tape measure, maybe I looked like a ruffian after my tube trip in a hurry to get there

LV, I should correct myself here. I have always worn 7 5/8 but found them tight front to rear and large on the sides.

This is exactly what I've experienced! I have a standard fedora that fits "okay" front to back, but the sides are almost too big, wow.

This is called a "long oval" and you're right, a regular round hat will never fit right.

This is true, I always measured the best I could with a tape measure but the sizing always seemed off when I tried a hat on.

Well you've answered some years-long questions, and have presented more! ScottFree, do let me know how your hat quest goes, sounds like we share similar challenges.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:15 pm

Yep, 61cm's is a 7 5/8, so with the proper head shape in place, you should be able to obtain an AB with no problems. Regards! Michaelson

Little Venice · Post by **Little Venice** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:28 pm

Michaelson wrote:Yep, 61cm's is a 7 5/8, so with the proper head shape in place, you should be able to obtain an AB with no problems. Regards! Michaelson

Fedora I need your help

Thanks for that encouraging post Michaelson, accept my regards!

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:29 pm

My pleasure, my friend. Your noggin is big, but rest assured, you're not the Lone Ranger with the size, and I KNOW Fedora can take care of you. Regards! Michaelson

DanielJones · Post by **DanielJones** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:46 pm

Little Venice,

Another thing you can use is some antique verners or calipers. They can be had cheap at an antique store. Along with the tape which will give you the cercumference, the calipers will give you measurements from side to side & front to back. This is a less expensive method to get the correct shape of one mellon than finding a conformer. Hope this will work out for you my friend.

Cheers!

Dan

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:55 pm

Step 1: Get a big bowl
Step 2: Get 1-2 pounds of Alginate ($12-16 each)
Step 3: Get a plaster such as Ultracal ($50 bag) or even plaster of paris (Casting plaster - $12 bag)

Shave your head, or put a tight fitting swim cap on. Use Vaseline to slick down any showing hair, just in case.

Put on the cap, mix the aginate in the bowl, and dip your noggin in. Two minutes later, take your head out, mix a batch of plaster, and pour it in.

In about 5 hours (give or take) you will have an exact plaster replica of the top of your head. Sand off the botton so it's nice and smooth, wrap it in a bit of bubble wrap, and send that badboy to Steve (fedora)

You will get the greatest fitting hat in the history of hats!

How is that for a 5 min FX lesson?

ScottFree · Post by **ScottFree** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:03 pm

Ah, so you've used a 'conformer' for sizing. That's the VERY best way to measure for your true head size and shape. Regards! Michaelson

Hi Michaelson, yes it was called a conformer. The ###### emails also encouraged me to optionally use a card board and cut out my head shpe if I choose to conserve on money. I choose to buy one of the conformers to not have to return it instead.

Cheers

Scott

Little Venice · Post by **Little Venice** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:35 am

Another thing you can use is some antique verners or calipers

Anything that would help a hat maker get a better idea of my head shape, plus an antique set would look nice anyway

How is that for a 5 min FX lesson?

That's awesome

If that's what it takes then I'd do it!

ScottFree, where on earth did you locate a conformer? I searched the net for them but I got nothing helpful.

I've got the feeling that Fedora/Steve is the man to help me, just waiting on his reply. At least now I don't feel like a mutant because of my head size, and have more than one fantastic way to measure my head.

You guys 'n gals are great

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:52 am

Zach R. wrote:Size nine? Looks like Strider will need one of those to fit over his helmet.

You know I got a big dome.

Seriously, though, you could try having the hat stretched just a smidge to see if that fits. I do that for customers who request it from time to time. Alternatively, you may have a "long oval" head. Did you see whether or not the hats you were trying on were "regular oval"? Sometimes, when a 7 5/8 regular oval just won't fit right, a 7 5/8 long oval might have a better shot. Again, a little stretching isn't that bad also.

Regards,

Little Venice · Post by **Little Venice** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:36 am

Strider wrote: Did you see whether or not the hats you were trying on were "regular oval"? Sometimes, when a 7 5/8 regular oval just won't fit right, a 7 5/8 long oval might have a better shot. Again, a little stretching isn't that bad also.

Regards,

I read the labels and none of them mentioned anything other than the size itself. The thing is I measured my head properly and it came to 61cm or 7 5/8, so the actual size should be perfect, it's just the shape is all wrong. In your experience, how often do people ask you for long oval in hat sizes?

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 3:57 am

Well, my hat store is not a haven for people who know these kinds of things. Most customers who come in there are casual hat wearers, and are just looking for a lid to cover their dome from the sun. Sometimes, they don't understand why the hat they are trying on doesn't fit, even though it is their size.

To answer your question, barely anyone ever asks for long oval. Most don't know they ARE a long oval. I have stretched more hats for people than people have asked for LO size.

I just happen to know the difference between regular oval and long oval. Most hats are made regular oval, long oval being something you have to either hunt for, or special order. I believe Michaelson can tell you more about that, as he is an LO, I think. Also, see Bufflehead Jones.

Next time you're in Herbert Johnson, ask about long oval size, and see if they have any. If not, ask them what they can do for you, and I am sure they will provide a helpful answer.

Regards,

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:48 am

Little Venice,

You know some of us have these big coconuts because we need extra storage capacity for our brains.

Don't worry about it, Fedora will fix you right up with the best hat in the business.

Little Venice · Post by **Little Venice** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:51 am

Bufflehead Jones wrote:Little Venice,

You know some of us have these big coconuts because we need extra storage capacity for our brains.

Don't worry about it, Fedora will fix you right up with the best hat in the business.

I'm hoping Fedora will fix it up for me. Some of us do have big heads, imagine the size of the chilled monkey brains

- it would be like opening a watermellon! Goodness I'm so relieved I now have a definitive way of describing my head size and shape, you wouldn't believe how odd it was trying to tell people at hat stores "It's a 7 5/8 Jim, but not as we know it", or I guess "Long oval, why did it have to be long oval!" 8-[

ScottFree · Post by **ScottFree** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:15 am

ScottFree, where on earth did you locate a conformer? I searched the net for them but I got nothing helpful.

The ###### Hat Company sold it to me. They also send you one out to use when you buy a hat but I preferred to keep the thing as I like to think I will develop a relation with several hatters. I ask if I could purchase it and they agreed to it and said in fact he was phasing out that version of it and had several of them to sell.

Its really just a simple plastic ring or halo or circle with sliders that you adjust to your head shape. They informed me this is a mail out version and not to be confused with the shop conformateur which is some antique giant tool that does the same job. Interestingly they indicate that the simple devise is actually more accurate than the complex antique models.

Cheers

Scott

Little Venice · Post by **Little Venice** » Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:55 am

ScottFree wrote: The ###### Hat Company sold it to me. They also send you one out to use when you buy a hat but I preferred to keep the thing as I like to think I will develop a relation with several hatters. I ask if I could purchase it and they agreed to it and said in fact he was phasing out that version of it and had several of them to sell.

That sounds like a grand way to do business, make sure your customer can measure their head properly. I must admit some hat stores don't really bother to offer help on sizing, it's almost like you're imposing on their time to get some help. There is such a huge difference in service when the sales assistants are really "into" what they're selling, as opposed to seeing it as just a job.

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:06 am

Also, I experienced the hats in the HB shop to be a tad smaller compared to what I was used to on other hats I had tried on and had to go up a size for it to fit, maybe even two sizes with more hair.

(My standard size wasn't even close.)

Generally, it seems that UK hat sizes are a bit smaller with hats, at least at HJ -

http://www.hatsdirect.com/help/sizechart.html

Regards,
Swindiana

Little Venice · Post by **Little Venice** » Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:05 am

Hmm that's an interesting post, that's why it's so important to measure your head. Oh and when I was at HJ I was told they're providing the hats and luggage for the film version of the Da Vinci Code, starring Tom Hanks.

The Big Head Dilemma

The Big Head Dilemma

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