Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Taper?

VancouverVic · Post by **VancouverVic** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:37 pm

Silly question, I know. It's just that I'm a bit surprised by all the concern about a taper.

Two years ago I got a Stetson Temple from hats.com. Already tapered, I know, and I've worn it through a Vancouver rainstorm, had boots dropped on it when it fell off a chair, etc. I admit I wince when I look at my shadow on the ground and note a resemblance to a Mayflower Pilgrim, but it kept the rain off my head and the sun out of my eyes, and still looked fairly stylish compared with a baseball cap.

Two days ago an Akubra Federation arrived. I noticed a difference immediately: tall enough that my jowls were de-emphasized in my front profile. Put a top bash and a couple of dents in per instructions from HatsDirect, and it looked pretty nice. One light coat of Scotchgard and I'm good to go.

Am I going to wear it in weather? I don't see why I shouldn't -- after all, Indy's hat is supposed to take a pounding, right?

I mean, the hat's supposed to be out in the Egyptian sun, survived a swim in the Amazon river and a stormy ocean, been smacked by a fake Ming vase, been rained on by dirt and dried mud, and come through all of that with a few battle scars.

And then I see a post from someone who's worried that taking his Adventurebilt to Hawaii will result in the top shrinking.

I mean, come on now. The hat is supposed to endure abuse, right?

Skippy · Post by **Skippy** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:57 pm

I think there is a bit of contradiction in that we all want to follow in the foot steps of our rough & tough hero, but feel the need to baby our hats, lest they get 1mm of taper. Certainly I'm guilty as charged!

The trouble is, the Raiders hat catches the Indy hat in such an iconic way, that that is the image burnt into our minds. Hence if you hat isn't an exact match because it's tapered, much heart-ache follows, when the stovepipe shape is probably the worst to try & maintain.

Reality, I think, is that replica Indy hats are looking better & better & we are getting even more demanding as a result. We want it too look EXACTLY like this scene or that scene now & not just satisfied with "The Look".

Taper is not a fatal illness! It's just what happens to a hat if it gets to much moisture involved, that's all

CHAUVEL · Post by **CHAUVEL** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:37 am

VANCOUVER VIC, how refreshing to read your post, i couldn't agree more, outta the box, bash, scotchguard and face the world. I feel that maybe some of us forget that the hat is to protect the wearer, not the wearer protect the hat. Akubra have been acutely aware of this basic philosophy and make their product accordingly for over 100 years. Be brave gentlemen. Cheers chauvel.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:05 am

In everything I own I have a philosophy of use it and maintain it. You cannot keep things perfect for very long. My brand new Jeep Cherokee already has some marks on it, my Brigg umbrella has some scrapes in the handle, my knives get dull, my boots get scuffed and I polish them, and my hat gets worn and worn and worn. And when it tapers, I will maintain it: I will follow Fedora's tutorial or I will send it to him for a reblock. Use your stuff; maintain it; and when it finally dies, buy more stuff!

Luisiana Jones · Post by **Luisiana Jones** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:18 am

Totally agree there HJ

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 9:39 am

Interesting. What was once old is now new again. I've been preaching this for decades, literally, and was made fun of. Now I read folks preaching the 'word' anew, and it's a breath of fresh air? Interesting indeed

Sorry for the cynical reply. It's been a long week.

Taper is not the anti-Christ, folks. Sure, there are SOME examples that can not be tolerated....like the hats that taper to the shape of a dunce cap. My Miller did that after many years of wear and abuse, but the examples of taper I've seen in the past week doesn't even make the mark in my opinion. The 'stove pipe' styling is the best example of the Raiders hat, but with use, even THAT hat lost it's shape. So will ours, but like HJ and everyone has said, it's all in the wear and care of our gear that gets us by, and there are so many professionals and products around us to HELP us keep it in good condition that it's not something that I'd lose any sleep over, and never WILL. The care of the gear is all part of the enjoyment, so let it your hat taper, then send it off and get it cleaned and re-blocked! No biggie! It's been done as long as folks have worn felt hats!

Regards! Michaelson

Feraud · Post by **Feraud** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:02 am

There has been a lot written on the fear of taper. Some is justified and some is not. People worry over 1 degree of taper in their hats and whether or not they should wear 'em in incliment weather. All hats should be worn and not babied. The better the hat the less you should worry about it!

Unless you are looking like a conhead-

I suggest we wear these great hats and get as much enjoyment out of them as possible.
Life's too short to worry about taper....

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:39 am

One of the resons why vintage hats are so sought after is the fact that many owners say they don't taper. I think the reason why is that the internal presure and desire for the body to return to the original shape of a cone has been beaten out of it after mulitipul re-blockings.

My Akubra Deluxe and Regular tapered in the back only slightly but then stopped regardless of how I used it in regular New England wear.

I swear on on that is holy and good that the problem with many fedoras is how they're blocked. If your head is a 7 1/8th Oval and your fedora is blocked to a 7 1/8th regular, your fedora will have artifical taper when your the bottom conforms to the shape of your head and the top of the crown does not.

Steve Delk proved this theory with the deluxe rebock and the Adventurebult that he made for me with the proper block.

Mojave Jack · Post by **Mojave Jack** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:02 am

Renderking Fisk wrote:I swear on on that is holy and good that the problem with many fedoras is how they're blocked. If your head is a 7 1/8th Oval and your fedora is blocked to a 7 1/8th regular, your fedora will have artifical taper when your the bottom conforms to the shape of your head and the top of the crown does not.

Other than perhaps resembling a Jack-O-Lantern (a Mojave-Jack-O-Lantern, that is) that is somewhat past its prime, I have no idea what shape my head is! How does one determine one's head shape? I'm picturing someone tracing around their head like you trace around your foot when you order custom shoes!

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:29 am

Somewhere on the internet there's a graph and chart that helps you figure out if your shape.

You have to take shots of yourself as if they're booking photos. Streight and profile. I didn't need to do this because I already have a stack of photos of myself in these poses that I stole from the wall at the post office.

Thanks, FBI!

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:47 am

Those graphs and photos used to be on the Peters Bros site, but it looks like they've changed the page.

Regards! Michaelson

Mojave Jack · Post by **Mojave Jack** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 12:04 pm

I googled a few key terms, but I can't find any charts. Is it basically a ratio of length to width? I think my ratio might be closest to a loaf of Italian bread.

DanoSaurus · Post by **DanoSaurus** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 6:10 pm

Don't forget that Indy's lid appears to survive all these perils in the movies, not real life. In reality his lid probably would have tapered and got all out of shape pretty quick.

Many of us have a lot invested in a good replica fedora to capture the look of the film hat, and it can be very disappointing when one good rain storm ruins that look.

And then I see a post from someone who's worried that taking his Adventurebilt to Hawaii will result in the top shrinking.

If this comment is directed at my recent post, hmm I never said anything about taper or shrinkage. I'm more worried about crushing it on the plane or the weather being too warm for a lined felt hat...

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 10:10 pm

Actually, the question is: "Who isn't?"

On a non-Indy hat, I don't mind taper at all. In fact, I like it. I have several fedoras that came tapered when I got them, and I love their look with a suit, or other dress attire. I'll keep this to a minimum, as this is more Fedora Lounge material, and move on to Indy hats.

On my Indy hats, I don't want a hat to taper too soon, but when it eventually does, it's not going to rattle my shoes too much. It is an unavoidable thing. Not when I can simply send it back to Steve for a quickie reblock, if need be. On top of that, if I start with a Radiers hat, just think! At some point, I will have a ToD hat! See? Silver lining, right there.

Regards,

fedoralover · Post by **fedoralover** » Sat Jun 11, 2005 12:38 pm

Renderking Fisk wrote:One of the resons why vintage hats are so sought after is the fact that many owners say they don't taper.

You are right Ren, at least mine haven't or don't anyway. As has been brought out by Steve, when the new bodies get excessively wet the felt relaxes and remembers it's cone shape and reverts back to it to some degree.
If a hat has sat in a closet for 50 to 60 years, over that period of time the felt will relax and "forget" it's original cone shape and basically develop a "new" memory, that of the shape it's been sitting in for 50 to 60 years.

I know the taper basically takes away from the Indy Raiders look, but everyone has to understand that those were Movie's and obviously not real life and things in real life won't come out like they do in the movies. If one has unreal expectations of what they can expect out of a new felt body, be it Steve's or anyone else's they will just constantly be fretting about it and end up dissappointed in what they have.

In the manufacturing process some bodies will turn out better than others, so some will taper more than others. Again that's just the way it works, they can't make every run EXACTLY the same. There are too many variables. We all know this from our own experiences in life, try making anything in vast numbers yourself, you know that you will make some better than others.

If you want to wear your fedora in every kind of weather and give it the beating Indy did his, it will taper, some more than others. If that concerns you, I would suggest getting another fedora you don't care so much about and let it take the beating on your outings and save your quintessential classic Indy Raiders fedora for when you want "The Look".

regards fedoralover

darthbish · Post by **darthbish** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:11 am

searching for something completely different, I came across "this" thread, and think it's worthy of further discussion.

I for one couldn't agree more with the originator.

Darth Indiana · Post by **Darth Indiana** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:32 am

i don't fuss over a bit of taper, especially since is can be fixed. my first "Indy" hat was a crushable wool felt from Cabelas, and i wore it in all weather conditions. i recently found an old picture of me wearing it, and let me tell you: you guys don't know the meaning of taper. it looked like one of those straw hats Japanese rice-farmers used to wear(BTW, if anyone knows the proper term for those, i'd greatly appreciate it). I still have no idea what happened to that hat, but i wish i still had it, being my first-ever Indy hat and all.
i never fuss over any of my gear getting beaten up; i bought it as gear, not a costume, which is why i look for the toughest stuff available.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:39 am

Actually, some hats come with a bit of taper, and I think they look good. It was blocked in to start with. And, back in the old days, a hatter might very well fit a customer with a tapered hat because that shape suited the facial shape better. Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:44 am

Who WAS that masked man?

Regards! Michaelson

indyrocks · Post by **indyrocks** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:00 pm

As a rule, if you get caught in heavy rain it's ideal to pop the crown out and let it dry that way and then re-bash....right? (to avoid taper)

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:19 pm

As a rule, yes.

I never do....but it's a good rule.

Regard! Michaelson

indyrocks · Post by **indyrocks** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:58 pm

Michaelson wrote:As a rule, yes.

I never do....but it's a good rule.

Regard! Michaelson

Well I suppose "character" is always nice to have in a hat. Indy's had it and that's why we love it.

Chewbacca Jones · Post by **Chewbacca Jones** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:13 pm

Fedora wrote:Actually, some hats come with a bit of taper, and I think they look good. It was blocked in to start with. And, back in the old days, a hatter might very well fit a customer with a tapered hat because that shape suited the facial shape better. Fedora

To me, this is cuts to the heart of the matter. One should only fear taper if one looks terrible in a tapered hat. Pure an simple.

Yes, a Raiders hat shouldn't have much taper, if any. But taper is fixable. I also find taper more objectionable on a tall crown. It just seems more "dunce cap" to me. But tapered crowns are nothing to fear. It's like hair styles. You have to maintain them to keep them, and sooner or later, our hair will need to be restyled in response to the passage of time. The up side; buying a new hat that looks good and natural is much easier than getting new hair when it wears out!

laughograms · Post by **laughograms** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 5:22 pm

Hemingway Jones wrote: You cannot keep things perfect for very long. My brand new Jeep Cherokee already has some marks on it, my Brigg

I read a great interview with a guitarist -- can't remember who -- and he was always so relieved when he got his first scratch on a new guitar. "Now I don't have to worry about getting a scratch on it," he said.

carolinamike · Post by **carolinamike** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 1:52 am

A pastor friend of mine used to always tell a story about his dad. Whenever the family got a new car, they would all go outside, stand around the car, thank God for the new vehicle and ask for Him to bless it. Then the father would pull out the key and make a tiny scratch on the bumper. Everybody would breathe a little sigh of relief and they would enjoy the car because it was no longer "brand new."

DR Ulloa · Post by **DR Ulloa** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:03 am

laughograms wrote:
Hemingway Jones wrote: You cannot keep things perfect for very long. My brand new Jeep Cherokee already has some marks on it, my Brigg
I read a great interview with a guitarist -- can't remember who -- and he was always so relieved when he got his first scratch on a new guitar. "Now I don't have to worry about getting a scratch on it," he said.

I don't "baby" my guitars, but about a montha go I got my first ding on my Gibson Les Paul. My fiance dropped it and banged it up a bit, nothing serious. It was quite a relief, though it hurt me deeply. Now it has more character than it did before. Just thought I might throw that in.

Dave

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:28 am

don't "baby" my guitars, but about a montha go I got my first ding on my Gibson Les Paul. My fiance dropped it and banged it up a bit, nothing serious.

Ouch!!! A reacurring nightmare I have had is dropping my 1959 LP Jr(dual pickups). I am always relieved when I get up, walk into my music room/Indy room, to see she is fine and well, sitting on her stand.

Out of my 4 guitars, ( I also l own a 1944 Martin acoustic) this little Jr. blows the rest away in tone. I handle it like I would handle a newborn infant. I am not so careful with my regular LP, or G and L S-500( which actually sounds just like an old Leo Fender Strat). I can handle scratching a new car, or anything else for that matter, but my guitars I am really careful with. Anyone ever seen Willie Nelson's acoustic?

Looks like it has been smashed a few times in bar fights, but he still plays it, holes and all.

And terribly off topic. Fedora

JulianK · Post by **JulianK** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:09 pm

because that shape suited the facial shape better.

I resemble that remark! Frankly I've been told that my tapered safari hats look better on my face than my Federations do.....sadly I think they're right.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:35 pm

JulianK wrote:
because that shape suited the facial shape better.
I resemble that remark! Frankly I've been told that my tapered safari hats look better on my face than my Federations do.....sadly I think they're right.

Post them, lets see.

CM · Post by CM » Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:38 am

Michaelson wrote: Taper is not the anti-Christ, folks. Sure, there are SOME examples that can not be tolerated....like the hats that taper to the shape of a dunce cap.

Michaelson, I got a good laugh out of this - thanks. Well put indeed.

Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Taper?

Who's Afraid of the Big Bad Taper?

who's afraid of the big bad taper?