Did my AB taper?

Indiana Wayne · Post by **Indiana Wayne** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:46 pm

We went on a hike today and right after we started it started to lightly rain and after about a mile it started to rain really hard and we continued to hike until the trail was now a stream so we decided to turn back. Well, to make a long story, short my Adventurebilt was soaking wet, the whole hat, except the inside was wet and I think it tapered. Here are some pictures I just took and I want to know if it tapered or not.

Here are some pictures of when I received it.

Here are some pictures after the hike.

Does it have taper?

Thanks, Indiana Wayne.

Mat Cauthon · Post by **Mat Cauthon** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 7:59 pm

Looks like it has tapered from front to back. From side to side maybe a little bit but not that noticable to me. But I wouldn't take my word for it im not that great of a judge when it comes to hats.

Brendon

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:13 pm

Yes, I'm afraid to say it certainly looks a bit tapered to me.

This is EXACTLY what happened to my HJ, so I fixed it back up and sold it.

Sorry this has happened to your lid mate.

I'm sure a reblock will put things right!

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 8:31 pm

If these photos were taken right after your hike, you really can't judge yet. That hat will be wet for three days, even if it feels dry to the touch. Turn the sweatband out and use it as a hat stand, then leave it alone for a few days, then go back and look at it. Don't worry. The worst thing you're in for is a reblock.

Of course, you may want to speak to Fedora; he is the authority on his own hats afterall.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:49 pm

It looks like it tappered but, it also looks like the bash came out ( if thats the best way to say it ). The center dent mostly. I hope that was clear and helpfull. I'm sure someone better will be more helpfull.

Feraud · Post by **Feraud** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:54 pm

Heminway Jones has a very good point regarding the hat being wet. It might be too early to tell.
It looks like it has tapered a bit in the crown. Try to shape it a bit and let it dry out completely for a couple of days.
Good luck.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:03 pm

Why is it that the ribbon looks purple? This happened with my PB Custom. It appeared black to me at first, then later seemed very purple. Was just wondering if it's just me. On the two Adventurebilts I have owned, neither of the ribbons looked purple in any pictures.

But yeah, it looks slightly tapered. After it dries, if it still appears tapered to you, then I would suggest a reblock. Slightly costly, but worth it.

Regards,

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Jun 08, 2005 11:34 pm

It looks like it tapered a bit. But If I were you I'd let it dry and then try rebashing it. You may see a big difference.

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:01 am

Why is it that the ribbon looks purple?

Yeah, that happened to mine too. I think the ribbon just starts to fade as it gets exposed to the elements. :junior: -IJ

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:07 am

Yep, that is taper. I am afraid, if you get the hat wet enough, it will try and return to the original body shape, i.e. a cone. Nature of the beast, I am afraid. Fedora

Alabama Jones · Post by **Alabama Jones** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:58 am

Well, that seals it. I was wanting to wear the new AB on my semi-annual trek along The Applachian Trail on the Tenn/NC line (one of the rainest places in the country). I just can't take the chance with the possiblity of heavy pop-up thundershowers this time of year ... don't want to lose my stovepipe.

I'm also struggling with wearing my Aldens over the J Crews...

Is that a beaver Wayne?

Marc · Post by **Marc** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:02 am

Looking at that bump halfway up the rear of the crown, it looks as if your head pushed at least part of the taper into it. Are you a long oval wearing a reg. oval hat?! - When you send it in for a reblock, be sure to specify.

Regards,

Marc

Texas Raider · Post by **Texas Raider** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:19 am

Well, look at the bright side, now you have a Temple of Doom cockpit scene fedora! "fuel!?,

fuel!?"

Should of sprayed it with protectant! Fedora, didn't you say you use that one particular water repellant on all of your lids before they go out? Or is this just an extreme example of a hat getting WAY too wet?

have a nice day.

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:42 am

There seems to be a lot going on with this hat. If Fedora says it tapered, then it tapered.

I also see that the top bash is even less pronounced than it was to begin with and that was very little. The front pinch appears to have been tightened as well which can bring the sides in. I did not read anywhere where the hat was still wet when the second batch of pictures was taken. If it is not wet, how was it dried? I think things can be done to lessen the taper effect starting by deepening the top bash to push the sides out a bit. Loosen the front pinch a bit as well. Add water repellent next time. It will not stop the taper, but it will slow it down considerably.

Hemingway Jones · Post by **Hemingway Jones** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 8:57 am

rick5150 wrote:I did not read anywhere where the hat was still wet when the second batch of pictures was taken. If it is not wet, how was it dried?

Rick, that is a great point; it is my understanding that a hat should only be allowed to dry on its own, air-dry, so to speak. I would imagine hair-dryers, dryers, oh, I don't know, microwaves, are bad ways to dry a hat.

Fedora once told me that once a hat is soaked completely, it can take up to a week to dry to its core. For example, even Panama hats are left on their blocks for at least four days to dry thoroughly. So, a hat may feel dry and not actually be.

As for this hat, it looks like it is reblock time. I think it is a good idea to have two hats, so if one is being reblocked, you have a spare.

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:25 am

As for this hat, it looks like it is reblock time. I think it is a good idea to have two hats, so if one is being reblocked, you have a spare.

Only two?

uh..oh Using that logic, I said to myself, what if there are two hats being reblocked. I better get a third. Then a fourth, then a fifth... Of course, I do that with all my gear. 5 jackets, 5 MKVII's, 5 NH shirts. I have always had the mentality that if you depend on something and it breaks, you are screwed, so I have backups for everything important to me. 3 guitars, 4 cars. Only one wife though. Some things cannot be replaced

Luisiana Jones · Post by **Luisiana Jones** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:53 am

For everything else use mastercard

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:57 am

How come I knew someone was going to say that.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:34 am

There seems to be a lot going on with this hat.

Yeah, it looks like something more than rain affected it. Wrong block shape for his head shape. Send it back and I will either fix that one, or make you a new one. To be honest, that is the worst looking Indy hat that I ever made, even when it was new. Not enough brim. Heck, I can't even find the records on it, but may be looking under the wrong name.

Also, 99.9 per cent of the hats that I have sold came from the USA stock felt. But, I did use some of the Argentinian beaver a few times, as I had it in stock.(I would substitute it, if they ordered rabbit) I would not be surprised if this hat came from the South American felt. Regardless, send it back and I will give you a free reblock, and if it turns out to be the South American felt, I will use American felt this go around. Fedora

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:49 am

As I recall, Wayne's hat is rabbit. I have one of the Argentine rabbit felts, and after several soaking rains, it has not tapered yet, so I'm betting it's one of the standard stock rabbit cones you're dealing with here, Fedora. Then again, you blocked mine on the original 1920's blocks that has more taper than the others, so maybe mine is a tighter taper than your standard blocks. I can't tell. Regards. Michaelson

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:57 am

Yup, I'm pretty sure it a rabbit. In the first pics the felt looks the same as my rabbit. I've had my AB wet once or twice and no taper so far. But I haven't had it soaked though.

Alabama, I have the same worries as you. Here in southern WV a summer storm can pop up on any humid day. As much as I hate those plastic hat covers, maybe we should carry one just incase we're caught in a heavy rain.

BendingOak · Post by **BendingOak** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:25 am

J-weaver, those plastic covers you are talking about wont work on the Adventurebilt. They have to be a lot stiffer like the Peterbrothers hat.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:29 am

I guess I'll just have to get wet then.

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:46 am

Pagey wrote: My MKVII hat is holding up well though.

Yes Pagey, its lookin' good and you even have some reverse taper going on there. Very nice!

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:55 pm

Probably the worst taper I've seen after my Gary White hat shrunk.

Good luck on a reblock.

Indiana Wayne · Post by **Indiana Wayne** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:04 pm

Thanks for your replies.

Fedora wrote:Regardless, send it back and I will give you a free reblock.

Thanks, Fedora! You just have to wait until I get back from South Carolina. I will be there all of next week. How much is it to have the hat shipped back?

Marc wrote: Are you a long oval wearing a reg. oval hat?!

No, my head is a regular oval. The hat is a regular oval.

rick5150 wrote:There seems to be a lot going on with this hat. If Fedora says it tapered, then it tapered.

I also see that the top bash is even less pronounced than it was to begin with and that was very little. The front pinch appears to have been tightened as well which can bring the sides in. I did not read anywhere where the hat was still wet when the second batch of pictures was taken. If it is not wet, how was it dried? I think things can be done to lessen the taper effect starting by deepening the top bash to push the sides out a bit. Loosen the front pinch a bit as well. Add water repellent next time. It will not stop the taper, but it will slow it down considerably.

It was not wet when I took the pictures. I let it dry on my head, but I was in the sun for about 5-10 minutes helping my dad put on the spare tire on our way home from the hike. I loosened up the front pinch last night, because I thought it was too tight.

I forgot to mention that this hat was in heavy rain for two hours! The rain was nonstop!

IndyFlyer · Post by **IndyFlyer** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:12 pm

As for drying a very wet/soaked fedora, aside from increasing the center dent and the other suggestions, what would truly be ideal? My hat will inevitably be there at some point, as I am of the 'hats are to be worn' mindset. Would it be best to pop out the bash and let it dry on a block of some sort followed by a re-bash? I realize that sounds an aweful lot like a re-bash to begin with and may be creating work pre-maturely. Now I am confusing myself and my hat is bone dry. Just a curious newbie.[/quote]

Luisiana Jones · Post by **Luisiana Jones** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:33 pm

UHm forgot to ask lets say ur beaver AB gets soaked up what do you do? u let it dry just how it came from the street?

:

Indiana Wayne · Post by **Indiana Wayne** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 2:34 pm

Texas Raider wrote:Well, look at the bright side, now you have a Temple of Doom cockpit scene fedora! "fuel!?, fuel!?"

Indiana Wayne · Post by **Indiana Wayne** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:19 pm

Anybody who is scared to wear their AB in the rain, don't be. Mine was in heavy rain for 2 hours! Wear it in all weather! Also don't be afraid to beat it up, it can take it!

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:35 pm

True, but 'screen accurate' all the same.

Regards. Michaelson

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 6:39 pm

Ah, come on guys, its not that bad.

Really though, before you send it to Steve you coud try to rebash it yourself. Besides, you can't do much to hurt it.

Richard~Buxton · Post by **Richard~Buxton** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:03 pm

Has their ever been a AB Beaver, get taper? I will definitely be getting some water repellent for mine. I think this might be one more resin to save up and get the Beaver.

Indiana Wayne · Post by **Indiana Wayne** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:05 pm

Don't forget that mine was in heavy rain for 2 hours!

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 7:07 pm

True, Wayne's situation is an extreme case here, and no amount of after market treatment would have kept his, or anyone else's hat from doing something, regardless of make or felt! Regards! Michaelson

Alabama Jones · Post by **Alabama Jones** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:23 pm

J_Weaver wrote:Yup, I'm pretty sure it a rabbit. In the first pics the felt looks the same as my rabbit. I've had my AB wet once or twice and no taper so far. But I haven't had it soaked though.

Alabama, I have the same worries as you. Here in southern WV a summer storm can pop up on any humid day. As much as I hate those plastic hat covers, maybe we should carry one just incase we're caught in a heavy rain.

I'm not above it,

... along with pastic footies to cover my aldens.

Yeah, similar climate. I want to wear the hat, don't mind it getting dirty, sweaty, rained on etc.. Thats the reason I went for the Beaver. But I DON'T want to get caught out in a long heavy downpour and have my brand new hat taper right off the bat. With the weather right now and since I'm going on a three night trip away from civilization, I think I'm going to leave it behind.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:47 pm

True, but just look what Steve did to this tapered hat with just his hands.

Before
After

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:54 pm

Is that the vintage ribbon on it? I'm wondering why it has such a purple tint.

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 5:47 am

Michaelson wrote:True, Wayne's situation is an extreme case here, and no amount of after market treatment would have kept his, or anyone else's hat from doing something, regardless of make or felt! Regards! Michaelson

I agree with this. I got caught in a downpour while peakbagging above the treeline. The hat fared better than the jacket thought. I brought the Wested along for temperature reasons as no rain was forecasted

Anyways, what is did notice is that when I first got my GH beaver hat, I brought it out in the rain about 6 or 7 times. Heavy rain, but not for prolonged periods. I did this intentionally to see how the beaver felt would hold up as it was not well-documented at the time. In fact, Steve way having arguments ahout the merits of beaver felt - sometimes vehement ones. Now it is accepted as top notch even by newbies.

Now after the hat intitially tapered during the major downpour (Mt. Eisenhower to Mt. Franklin), Fedora reblocked it. This time when it got wet, the hat did not taper much at all when it dried, and it virtually dried on my head during the trek back as the rain stopped and the sun came out.

Steve once said something about after a while the "life" is gone from the felt and it may last longer between reblocks. That may explain why the vintage felt seems to hold up better. I am thinking that after 10 reblocks or so, the hat will be darn near untaperable...

Mattdeckard · Post by **Mattdeckard** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 2:27 pm

As much as Steve has touted Beaver as the beat all end all, I have also touted that beaver depends on the quality of fur used and that a rabbit hare hat or a beaver nutria blend hat can on occasion be better quality felt than a Beaver felt hat. It depends on the quality of the fur used when you are dealing with a soft dress hat.

As for taper, most of my vintage hats are fresh out of the box and since they still had price tags on many I assume that they were never cleaned or blocked prior to my owning them.

Either the felt has mellowed over the years through 60 years of oxidation, or there is something in the process for making dress hats back then that is not being done today. Vintage hasn't tapered while modern has.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:14 pm

Vintage hasn't tapered while modern has.

Matt is right. Vintage hats last a whole lot longer before they taper. It is uncanny. I discovered when pouncing vintage bodies that instead of fuzz coming off the hat, you get powder instead. My theory is aged fur felt is taper resistent due to the felt actually dying. It is no longer living and reacting to the environment. The reason that I say that is, the felter that I use has been making quality felt bodies since the 20's or 30's. They are using the same equipment today, as they did back then. There is an art of blending furs to make a blend, but they mostly produce only pure rabbit and pure beaver, so that throws the art part of fur selection out the door.

Matt is right too about the quality of the beaver felt. You can buy some really crappy high content beaver bodies(supposedly high content, but that is another question all together), and most come not from this country but other countries. (Will no mention who) I was totally dismayed at some of the stuff I have seen, before I settled on my current felt maker. I have seen the other, new, pure beaver bodies out there, and I gotta tell you, none are any better than what I am using. The only change that I would make in what I am using is more consistency in the level of stiffener. If I could get it, I would have zero in the crown and more in the brim. Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:34 am

You guys are amazing.... Do NOT wear your fedoras in the rain, NUMBSCULLS! Don't your necks get cold? Wear a hooded plastic raincoat in the rain. ...Most of you are emulating H.F. in ROTLA. His hat did NOT get rained on in that all time classic, so you are GOOD if you NEVER get your hero hat rained on! (But, feel free to soak it in a river in Peru/Hawaiii if you are finished with it and want to wreck it.) Would you leave your car windows open overnight in a rainstorm, walk though ankle deep puddles in your swede Nikes?.. The Raiders hat was for sun protection. Modern day archaeologists still wear hats for sun protection when they dig. When it's raining, they don't dig in mud, and they don't wear shade hats. You know...it's summertime, and I've noticed the supermarkets, chain drugstores, ect. are stocking cloth and straw wide brim hats, some fairly Raiders-like. They are SUN HATS. Fedora, you need a disclaimer. "Not responsible for shrinking due to rain. Do not get your felt hat wet." Fedora, I think your main desire is to get people their Raiders hats. That hat NEVER got rained on. Would have wrecked it.

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:57 am

Indiana Texas-girl wrote:Is that the vintage ribbon on it? I'm wondering why it has such a purple tint.

Anyone?

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:34 am

You guys are amazing.... Do NOT wear your fedoras in the rain, NUMBSCULLS!

Very nice...

I completely disagree. Some of us get outside more than others and the weather changes from time to time. Sometimes we get wet. Sometimes you cannot help it, sometimes you can. Hats are to protect us form the elements. Not just sun or we could all wear a straw hat, since a felt fedora is not the most comfortable thing to wear in the hot sun in the first place. It just looks the coolest. (BTW, "Numbskulls" is spelled with a "k"...)

Mulceber · Post by **Mulceber** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:47 am

All I can do is reiterate what you've already said Rick. Fedoras are meant to keep us out of the elements (rain, sun, what have you) and babying a hat will just deteriorate your enjoyment of it. Also 3k$, I fail to see what the differencee is between having your hat rained one and jumping into a river with it on. It gets wet in both circumstances, Numbskull! (at least I can spell "numbskull" correctly). :junior: -IJ

Indyjim · Post by **Indyjim** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:50 pm

I'm thinking maybe both camps are correct. The purpose of a hat is to protect you from all of the elements, including rain and snow and moisture is going to damage the hat. But back when hats were sold by hat shops, they had cleaning and reblocking services. So when your hat was ruined by the rain, you sent it in for a reblock. Kind of like having your suits cleaned all the time. So the hat was worn for protection but was restored afterward. Now we have hats that are subject to the same potential damage but only limited resources for having them restored. Therefore, do not get your hat wet if you have no way of restoring it. The police in my town all wear smokey-the-bear
hats, and when it is raining or snowing, they all have plastic covers on, so
damage can apparently occur with any felt hat, or they wouldn't take such efforts to protect theirs.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:58 pm

ITG,

I asked this same question to Pagey not too long ago in a PM when he commented that he had a similar thing happen to him with his AB's ribbon, and here was his reply to me. Hope it helps you.

Pagey wrote:I think the ribbon gradually fades and the purple tones become more pronounced. The ribbon on my hat is hardly darker than the felt. I may take it to a hat shop and switch to a darker ribbon.

Regards,

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:06 pm

I completely disagree. Some of us get outside more than others and the weather changes from time to time. Sometimes we get wet. Sometimes you cannot help it, sometimes you can.

I get outside plenty. I just check the weather forecast the night before and prepare accordingly. It really isn't that hard. Somebody has to take advantage of all those meteorologists getting paid those big bucks. It helps to be prepared.

Hats are to protect us form the elements. Not just sun or we could all wear a straw hat, since a felt fedora is not the most comfortable thing to wear in the hot sun in the first place.

I agree. That is why someone invented Gore-Tex.

It just looks the coolest.

Yes, a fedora is very classy and cool looking. We all believe that, but there are a lot of folks today that don't. I could care less what they think and will wear what I want to, whenever I want.

However, I wear what is best for me at any given time. I baby my felt hats and I am not afraid to say so. Water and felt don't mix. Period, dot, the end. Water ruins a felt hat, period. Not permanently, but ruins it nonetheless.

I know that you will say, "wear it in the rain and then have Steve clean and reblock it". Well, Steve is not going to be reblocking our hats forever. One day, he will stop. There is not a hat shop anywhere around me that would reblock a hat. Shipping it off somewhere is more of a hassle than I am willing to put up with.

I take real good care of all of my things, not just my felt hats. My felt hats will not be out in the rain. I wore one in the rain once and it made it too big for me when it dried. I didn't like that. Pain in the posterior.

You can wear your felt fedoras in the rain if you want to, that is your choice. I'm not. I will wear mine when I feel like it and when it rains, I will wear a hat made for the rain or wear my Gore-Tex hooded rain jacket. I would rather be dry and warm and toasty than stylish.

If you say, "well, back in the day, they wore their felt hats in the rain". That may be true, but they didn't have better materials to make their hats from back then. We do.

I don't have to be tough and brave the elements when they make items that make it so that I don't have to. I don't have to prove anything to anyone. I am too old for that @#$%.

I am not trying to change the way anyone treats their hats. That is everyone's choice to make with their own hats. The way I treat my hats, it wouldn't surprise me if several years from now, they still look like they did the day they came out of the box.

Just my opinion. Your opinion may vary, as well it should.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:03 pm

You make a good point Bufflehead. I've considered getting an Akubra Snowy River or something similar to use as an alternate to my AB while hiking. I know I don't want to get my AB caught in a rain like Indy Wayne did. But I also know that it will eventually happen if I keep using my AB as an outdoor hat in the summer. Ah decisions, decisions.

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:21 pm

Strider wrote:ITG,

I asked this same question to Pagey not too long ago in a PM when he commented that he had a similar thing happen to him with his AB's ribbon, and here was his reply to me. Hope it helps you.

Pagey wrote:I think the ribbon gradually fades and the purple tones become more pronounced.

Regards,

Thank you Strider! It makes you wonder why since the hats are not that old. That's some fast fading, especially for vintage ribbon. I wonder if Fedora dyes the ribbon (nuttin' wrong with dying the ribbon but I'm just trying to figure out why it wouldn't have faded a while back if it's vintage ribbon unless it's not seen daylight til now).

Did my AB taper?

Did my AB taper?

hat

hat

hat

AB Taper!