David Morgan

taikonaut · Post by **taikonaut** » Tue May 31, 2005 5:53 pm

So who actually own a Indy type David Morgan whip? Do you think a US$795 is worth it for a leather whip of this calibre or do you think the price is inflated because of the film connection?

taikonaut · Post by **taikonaut** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:29 am

Did you buy your whip from David Morgan direct? How much did UK custom charge you or did you arranged for it as a gift?

Is Joe Strain's Indy style whip made of kangaroo skin?

taikonaut · Post by **taikonaut** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:11 am

I have been checking up on whats been said about the various whip makers on this forum and it does seems that DM only supervise while actual works are done by apprentice, unlike old DM whips these newer ones have a much looser braiding. Someone said Joe Strain's whips are similar to what DM use to be when he made them himself so I am kind of leaning towards that especially price wise. Does anyone know how to order one directly from Joe Strain rather than from a company that stocks it?

taikonaut · Post by **taikonaut** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:33 am

Thanks Pagey, does he have an email?

Looking at Joe Strain's CV it does appear that most of the films in the last 10 years that involves whips are made by him while those before that are made by DM, maybe the teacher is passing the baton over to his heir apparent? It would be interesting to know if DM or Joe Strain will be the whip maker for the new Indy film.

ij1936 · Post by **ij1936** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:04 am

I have an 8' DM that I bought back in 2002. They are priced way too much. Maybe a professional whip cracker can tell the difference in the handling of various whips, but for me the difference between the DM and the 2 whips that I bought out in S.D. (which look identical) are so miniscule. I can tell that the DM is made of different leather than the S.D. whips, and the grip is different between the two, but in actual usage, they feel and crack the same.

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:31 am

Last I heard Joe doesn't do email. I think you have to phone the order. He has posted here, so international phone charges are an issue you might be able to PM him on this forum.

Whipcrack · Post by **Whipcrack** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:19 am

I have 3 Morgans, I agree there are several makers who produce very high quality whips for significantly less money than Mr. Morgan charges. However to me the Morgans have added value the others don’t have. David Morgan invented the American bullwhip we know as the Indy whip. He alone made the whips for the IJ movies.

As someone who cracks several times a week and has 3 boys that whip too durability is very important. The Morgan bull is a working whip that is made to crack every day. With a little care 10+ years of use is not uncommon. Morgan whips have stood the tests of time. That is why the professionals chose them then and continue to today. Remember Glen Randall Jr. chose the Morgan whips for Raiders, not George Lucas.

I don’t think about all of this every time I am in the back yard cracking but sometime soon David Morgan will retire and no longer make them. When that day comes I may retire mine, put them on the wall, go out and buy a Stenhouse or a Strain but probably not. They are all great whips but it just wouldn’t be the same.

Thanks
Bill Walton

Whipcrack · Post by **Whipcrack** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:24 am

It will be interesting to see who makes the whips for Indy IV and if Harry Ford still has the juice to snap that baby off.

Thanks again
Bill

taikonaut · Post by **taikonaut** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:25 am

Indiana Texas-girl wrote:Last I heard Joe doesn't do email. I think you have to phone the order. He has posted here, so international phone charges are an issue you might be able to PM him on this forum.

Can you remember his username?

Bernardodc · Post by **Bernardodc** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:12 am

Totally agree with Whipcrack. You hit the mark Bill!

Joe's email:

isbacowboy@yahoo.com

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Bernardo

Alabama Jones · Post by **Alabama Jones** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:44 am

As much as I would love to have a David Morgan, I just don't think I can justify that price, especially when its not a guarantee its even made by him, and the handle is different. Been looking at the Strain and Stenhouse, with the latter being the least expensive, but I'm thinking I'll split the difference and go with the Strain.

I may always regret never getting a Morgan, especially when he retires, but right now I just can't see paying an extra $300.00 for a *name*.

The_Edge · Post by **The_Edge** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:45 pm

Maybe a professional whip cracker can tell the difference in the handling of various whips

You're right...they can. Anybody who can't tell the difference in handling, balance and performance between different whip makers shouldn't be weighing in with an opinion.

There is a heck of a lot more to a David Morgan bullwhip than just the name. But David uses his notoriety to his advantage and sells his whips at a price based on the demand. Making whips is a tiny portion of his business and he doesn't have to do it. But if some one wants to pay him several hundred bucks for a whip then so be it.

But don't expect a Morgan, Strain, Stenhouse, Duke, Murphy or Nolan to handle with the same performance attributes. There is more to whips than just a loud noise.

taikonaut · Post by **taikonaut** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 12:46 pm

Thanks Barnadoc.

I also dont understand its justification if DM isnt making it himself especially when you consider Joe Strain is the best apprentice he ever had and whoever is working with DM at the moment braiding whips on his behalf is most likely not near the level of skill to be independent at the moment.

Whipcrack · Post by **Whipcrack** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 1:31 pm

taikonaut wrote:Thanks Barnadoc.

I also dont understand its justification if DM isnt making it himself especially when you consider Joe Strain is the best apprentice he ever had and whoever is working with DM at the moment braiding whips on his behalf is most likely not near the level of skill to be independent at the moment.

All this has been discussed before, David Morgan may have an assistant for the dog quirks and pocket whips but the David Morgan made bulls are by his hands alone, as they have always been.

Bill

taikonaut · Post by **taikonaut** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:07 pm

Whipcrack wrote:
taikonaut wrote:Thanks Barnadoc.

I also dont understand its justification if DM isnt making it himself especially when you consider Joe Strain is the best apprentice he ever had and whoever is working with DM at the moment braiding whips on his behalf is most likely not near the level of skill to be independent at the moment.
All this has been discussed before, David Morgan may have an assistant for the dog quirks and pocket whips but the David Morgan made bulls are by his hands alone, as they have always been.

Bill

We cant be sure if the whip sold by DM are indeed handmade by DM, it may have been supervised by him but no proof he made it. It was said the Mask of Zorro whip by DM was actually completely made by Joe Strain when he was serving as an apprentice, can anyone verify this? If its true its even more likely works get passed onto his apprentice these days. DM might be doing this to pass on his skill to another generation.

DavieM · Post by **DavieM** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:09 pm

I have handled the DM, Strain and Duke versions of the Indy whip and can honestly say that for me Strain's whip impressed the most.
It IS braided far tighter than the DM and has less weight about it but in my opinion is a better whip, especially given the cost of a new DM whip.

Whipcrack · Post by **Whipcrack** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:21 pm

If David Morgan says it's so that's good enough for me. To a more honorable man I have never spoken. Who was it in Last Crusade whom said "some things have to be taken on faith"?

Thanks

DavieM · Post by **DavieM** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:28 pm

An honorable man with pots of cash.....

ij1936 · Post by **ij1936** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 2:31 pm

The_Edge wrote:
Maybe a professional whip cracker can tell the difference in the handling of various whips
You're right...they can. Anybody who can't tell the difference in handling, balance and performance between different whip makers shouldn't be weighing in with an opinion.

I think you need to back off. I found your reference highly offensive. I am not a professional with the whip although I have the basics of cracking down. I stand by my statement.

The_Edge · Post by **The_Edge** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 4:46 pm

David Morgan does have an apprentice working in-house. However, this apprentice makes all the whips under David's supervision and according to his design philosophy of whip construction. He still makes whips himself but due to several health related issues recently he has had to cut down his own output drastically. Cut the BS and give the man and his "pots of cash" (LOL!) a break.

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 7:34 pm

taikonaut wrote:
Indiana Texas-girl wrote:Last I heard Joe doesn't do email. I think you have to phone the order. He has posted here, so international phone charges are an issue you might be able to PM him on this forum.
Can you remember his username?

I want to say it's JStrain. Not for sure though. You can do a search in the memberlist or search the posts for an author with that username to see what comes up. But since Bernie posted his email, you probably won't need to contact him via PM here at COW.

Bernardodc · Post by **Bernardodc** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:26 pm

A few points I now know and that I would like to share:

Joe Strain was not a D. Morgan apprentice. Joe is making whips since his was 15 or so, (and now he is 28 I think). He met Mr. Morgan and improved his work some years ago through his expert advise. Even so, Morgan did not teach him how to make a whip, Joe already knew that. And both Joe and Mr. morgan told me this.

Mr. Morgan still makes most of the whips coming out of his shop. However, he is very busy writing a new book, among other things.

He told me he likes other people to braid for him, but under his strict supervision. That was the case of Paul Stenhouse, who used to braid for him on the weekends some years ago.

Currently he has a very skilled assistant (please note I did not say apprentice) doing some items for him, including whips. He told me she's very talented, specially at cutting. He is so happy with her work that he does not really need to supervise her. (although he still does it).

I asked him if he could tell the difference between his whips and hers, and he told me: " Well, actually no."

If you think about it, she's learned from the master. She braids like he does, using the same materials and construction. If Mr. Morgan can not tell apart the difference between his whips and hers, I'd said those whips are pretty good!

If you like a whip made by him, you just have to tell him so. I have two bullwhips made by him, and I'll order my third one in August. And I'll keep buying whips fom him as long as he makes them and my wallet allows.!

On the handle issue:
The handle is still the same 8 inch spike. The only cosmetic difference is that the ring knot is not directly over the end of the spike, unlike the old whips, because that a high stress area. Just that. No big deal.

I also have a Joe Strain bullwhip, and the thing is perfect! A flawless work by another master whipmaker. A different whip, with its own personality and character.

Again, hope that helps

Bernardo

taikonaut · Post by **taikonaut** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:25 am

I cant claim to have any knowledge about whip makers but something I am not entirely clear about is who made the whip for the "Mask of Zorro"?
I saw on DM website its his company that supplied the whip but in Bullwhip.com it mentioned Joe Strain as the maker while apprenticed to DM.

Herr Jones · Post by **Herr Jones** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:56 am

Just to let anyone who is considering getting Paul Stenhouse whip I went to place an order from him back in early May and this is what he told me, "I'm taking a hiatus from whipmaking as the quality of skins coming out of Australia are terrible (I've read this also through others here) right now. . . . I won't be making any until I have more free time, and the quality comes back up."

The_Edge · Post by **The_Edge** » Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:56 pm

taikonaut wrote:I cant claim to have any knowledge about whip makers but something I am not entirely clear about is who made the whip for the "Mask of Zorro"?
I saw on DM website its his company that supplied the whip but in Bullwhip.com it mentioned Joe Strain as the maker while apprenticed to DM.

Morgan made the bullwhips used in the beginning of the film with all the wraps and swinging. As well as the the bullwhip at the end of the film. Strain made the target whip that is used to snuff candles. That's how I have come to understand it.

taikonaut · Post by **taikonaut** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:36 am

Thanks Edge, still not sure why whips by two different makers were used.
Is it going to be Strain or Morgan being chosen for the whips in the new "Legend of Zorro"?

taikonaut · Post by **taikonaut** » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:46 pm

I was certain Joe Strain was logged onto here just a moment ago, I would have liked more of his inputs here as we all do.

eaglecrow · Post by **eaglecrow** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:02 pm

My first whip was a 6ft. mexican swivel-hand bullwhip.
Second was a 12ft. David Morgan Indiana Jones. I really won't tell you what I did with it in my early whip days but I can tell ya it was one of the few whips who get punished and not the other way round

But what I can tell that this whip was made for heavy duty.
Anyway, I decided to sell it after 3 years of using since I was frighten to death that it may break some day. This fear came with the price of the whip.
which I got for the half price

Anyway, I bought a slightly used, well broken in 9ft. Paul Stenhause (which I bought for the half money I got for the old Morgan).

Although I'm not satisfied with the thin handle and the missing wrist loop of this pice, I like it more than the 3 Morgans (mine includet) I saw.
Don't hit me, but Paul Stenhause became the better whipmaker to me. I never did this bad things with it which I did with the Morgan, but I guess it would stand it.

Just my 2 cents

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:29 pm

BreinederIndy,

Edit your post and put a space between the .jpg and the My. With My highlighted as part of the link, your link doesn't work.

eaglecrow · Post by **eaglecrow** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:32 pm

Thanks, the link I posted on top was actually a mistake

winrichwhips · Post by **winrichwhips** » Mon Jun 06, 2005 11:40 pm

All this talk about David Morgan really makes me want one of his whips. I think I'll call him up tomorrow and order one. I'm leaning towards a 10 footer.

Between Paul Nolan, Chris Camp and Bernardo del Carpio, I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't have a Morgan. As someone who started out idolizing DM and his work, I'd be willing to pay the money out of sentimental reasons.

-Adam