Deborah Nadoolman's fedora comments - verbatim

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 3:33 pm

Ohhhhhhh, he said "sit"......whew

...the other thing you do in the hat rather than on it.

IndianaGuybrush · Post by **IndianaGuybrush** » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:53 pm

Gimme your hat...
Why?
Because I'm going to sit in it

OK, Ok, that one skated the line

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:21 am

This guy sounded Australian. Probably an Akubra...?

Pop the top, centerbash it////there's your Raiders hat! Just kidding!

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 12:26 am

Ah-ha! You are right, 3K! Check out the credits at the end of the film- there's a list of Australian Climber or something like that! I only noticed his accent recently on the DVD because of the improved sound quality...

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Fri Feb 04, 2005 3:32 am

Here's the Akubra Squatter from the David Morgan site

And here's the the block formed version. http://www.everythingaustralian.com.au/ ... 0&cat_id=2 Look how much taper a telescoping crown puts into this hat. Pop that out and it would look pretty much like the open crown one?...With very little taper? THAT is the question. My recent experience with tear drops indicates the answer is "yes" - but with a bit of wierdness added..., and it's why I have hope for my gestating Akubra Colly, Down Under. Gestating like an A L I E N. ... I just now noticed... It says this grey is their "hat of choice" to be shaped into an Indiana Jones Hat! -I'm going with the Colly though, because I see evidence of the rear of a tear drop on the top of the Raiders hat, but I don't see evidence of this Squatter's oval, not tear drop, telescoping crown, in the front on top of the Raiders hat. Plus the formed Sqatter is too low in front. I just e-mailed everythingaustralian to see if I could get the Colly in Super fine, rather than Imperial quality felt. I still think the Colly is "a little too high" with a "v e r y wide brim" --- What I'm doing is trying to find the original hat...I can try and reverse engineer a block...I'd rather find the real deal and save myself the trouble. ...I don't think that Cury has a deep enough "moat" in the tear drop to translate into a low taper hat...in fact yesterday, I thought I found the exact same crown cowboy hat, a Dorfman-Pacific. I couldn't shape it into a Raiders hat.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:06 am

After 3 months I've got my Akubra Colly. This is not the original Raiders hat. -And I thought it would be. I turned it and tried to convert it, but it has too much taper front and back, and a 6 and 3/4 inch open crown. The search continues. .... However, I love this hat! It's an SUV of a hat. It's huge, (plus I ordered it a size big and folded the sweat.) Crocodile Dundee might say "..Now THAT'S a hat..." You could say it's just a cowboy hat, but it's not quite that. It reminds me of the Van Helsing look. The brim is very stiff, while the crown is soft. Just with fingers I've put a hint of snap in the back half of the brim and a tighter front pinch. The sweat is the most thin and supple I've encountered and reeks like a new Wested. I got a brown one, not this tan one, otherwise it came exactly as pictured.

I'll be telling the sun to "Take a hike" plus, I got air holes.. A bit heavy, and it will need a chin strap in strong wind, since the brim is fairly board-like.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:25 am

Well, it was worth a try I guess.

The Raiders hat is very, very unique. I always wondered how many different hat Ford might have worn in Raiders.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:57 am

Two. The Hawaii hat and the one and only. Maybe 3- I doubt it. I prefer the Raiders hat over this Akubra. The Raiders hat is sweet and stylish, which kind of makes you look like a "Dandy", unless you've got attitutde as well. This Akubra just rolls over everyone... which is O.K. with me, because I'm just sheltering under it, minding my own bizz-quizz. It's a dang umbrella! If you have extra money, and want a big-### hat that' s not an average cowboy hat, and is a serious hard working real world workig lid, you will apreciate this AKUBRA... from the land of OZ zzzzz.. I'd quess there's 5 rabbits in this sucker!

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:07 am

when I bought my HJ, I went to the shop and I asked for their australian model, the dude there didnt know what I was on about and took me downstairs and showed me some australian bush hats, but when I came upstairs there was a black and white photo of ford in gear on the right hand side of the shop along with the hats. I asked for something with a 3 inch brim and 5 inch crown and the guy instantly knew what I was on about. FYI.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:07 pm

Two. The Hawaii hat and the one and only.

I agree. The hat he wore while traveling to the Temple entrance was used only for that scene. Once inside, the hats changed, as this was filmed earlier in the UK. The hat used inside was the same one that he used in the rest of the film. The only one that I have a question about is the one from the Well of Souls. I don't know when this was filmed in the sequence, but that one looked a bit different too. The rest of the film seems to use the same hat, and it shows the weathering from wear and tear as the filming progresses. Fedora

crazylegsmurphy · Post by **crazylegsmurphy** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:56 pm

Sorry if someone said this...but couldn't "A little too tall" mean that they were looking for something taller than everything else...

Meaning, everything else is short, we were looking for something a little too tall...meaning taller=better=different than everything else, meaning odd for the norm?

I dunno, the way I hear it she was looking for something not at all like the rest and it was too tall, and too wide and that was perfect.

As for the australian thing...I think you guys need to realize that this person has probably worked on many-a-film and has no idea what is what. If some "gearhead" asked me what brand of fur we used on that lame sasquatch movie, I couldn't tell you at all!

As a costume designer (judging from the few I have met) they basically have a look in mind, and they just grab stuff to make it work. I mean in the case of the hat, if they couldn't find a 30's style hat that looked like they wanted, she could have grabbed a cowboy hat and just shaped it 30's style..

ok, lunch time.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:00 pm

Well then, crazylegs, I hope you've learned an important lesson by joining this rowdy band of cutthroats! You best get back there and do your research about that lame sasquatch fur, as you never know....there may be a 'Lame Sasquatchgear.com' site in the future, and they'll be bugging the stew out of YOU for details!!!

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:34 pm

Alright, who's making fun of LameSasquatchGear.com? They used REAL muppet fur, you know! They didn't have quite enough real fur to use when they shaved Jerry, and Jess' hair was the wrong color.

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:38 pm

See there?! I sense the momentum building....

Regards! Michaelson

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 2:47 pm

I think Noodleman had no clue about Australian hats. She saw a Poet at HJ and thought it looked Australian. You really can't take her statements much further.

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:38 pm

I don't know. Maybe I'm falling a bit out of the "purist" line here on this one. We'll never know exactly what hat was used, and does it matter? Thanks to Fedora and other hatters out there the hat can be replicated. The Raiders look is all in the shaping and that just takes practice and tinkering. As far as "THE HAT".... we may as well try to trace the bloodline of the exact kangaroo used in Ford's whip and make whips from his anchestors.

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 6:40 pm

Shawnkara wrote:I don't know. Maybe I'm falling a bit out of the "purist" line here on this one. We'll never know exactly what hat was used, and does it matter? Thanks to Fedora and other hatters out there the hat can be replicated. The Raiders look is all in the shaping and that just takes practice and tinkering. As far as "THE HAT".... we may as well try to trace the bloodline of the exact kangaroo used in Ford's whip and make whips from his anchestors.

amen brotha.

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:28 pm

Dakota Ellison wrote:I think Noodleman had no clue about Australian hats. She saw a Poet at HJ and thought it looked Australian. You really can't take her statements much further.

Amen to that as well!

McFly · Post by **McFly** » Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:48 am

Shawnkara wrote:we may as well try to trace the bloodline of the exact kangaroo used in Ford's whip and make whips from his anchestors.

You're absolutely right... we could make millions!

In Christ,
Shane

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 3:07 am

If Professor Michaelson, or anyone else that has this HJ catalog would like to check, maybe it says "Australian model" in the blurb under a hat somewhere??

What year is this one? 80? 81?

Vannevar · Post by **Vannevar** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:08 am

3thoubucks wrote:If Professor Michaelson, or anyone else that has this HJ catalog would like to check, maybe it says "Australian model" in the blurb under a hat somewhere?? What year is this one? 80? 81?

need bigger pic!

Canadave · Post by **Canadave** » Sun Apr 24, 2005 11:50 am

3thoubucks wrote:...It's huge, (plus I ordered it a size big and folded the sweat.) ...

Just curious...why did you do that?

David

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:51 pm

My hard copy is buried out in one of my boxes in the garage. My HJ catalogs date from the early 90's, and are exactly like the page shown. I don't recall any of them having the 'Australian' statement under the listing. The ad is showing an uncut Poet in the center (the one with the huge brim) and all the variations of hats that are/were made FROM the uncut Poet. Regards! Michaelson

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:54 pm

I could swear I can make out "McAlpine" on the hat in the center. The blue-grey hat on the bottom left looks like a Poet. Does any one else have a copy of this page they could scan and e-mail?

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:30 pm

Ah, now I understand!!! It was right under my nose all of the time as I have that pic saved from a few years ago. Here is the deal, in my opinion. The hat in the center is the McAlpine, as I can enlarge and read it. The original Raiders hat is at 8 o'clock, in gray. That is the block shape, no doubt in my mind. Now, at 3 o'clock and 5 o'clock is the LC block. They both look identical to me. So, the first hat was one like the gray one. The next hats were a different block, i.e, 3 and 5. The current hats are like the 3 and 5 as well. I have never been more certain in my life, after looking at this catalog page. I am convinced. Fedora

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:07 pm

I wonder if someone could contact HJ about the block used for particular hat?

Although I'm sure that they don't know anything more about it than we do.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:42 pm

J_Weaver wrote:I wonder if someone could contact HJ about the block used for particular hat? Although I'm sure that they don't know anything more about it than we do.

Well, when Swales was there, we tried and tried. He swore up and down that he used the same block. But, we think he best remembers the LC. With Raiders being 8-9 years before that, it was pretty much a lost cause.

Now that he no longer works there, it's even more of a guessing game. The only thing I can figure is that the block used for Raiders was commonly used for some other hat. For some reason HJ just never associated the block shape we were looking for with the Poets they were selling.

Pyr.

Pyroxene · Post by **Pyroxene** » Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:47 pm

And in my experience.

You have to have an insanely (6 in or higher) tall block to get the deep center dent with no taper front or back.

I have been very happy with my block shape. When I saw the Indyfedora, my first reaction was "that's the shape".

http://www.indyfedora.com/indyfedoraopen.jpg

Pyr

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:00 am

I bet if we could get Fedora into where ever they store their blocks he could spot it.

Who knows? Perhaps the block is still waiting in some antechamber for us to discover. Perhaps there is still some vital bit of evidence that eludes us.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:38 am

Hmm, I never really gave it a thought, but your right Pagey.

There is still some antechamber full of The Raiders Bolck in various sizes.

I know one thing though; if I ever found it I would probably melt when I opened the door.

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:45 am

Here's a serious suggestion to Prof. Michaelson... Pitch this idea to your friend Josh Bernstein (Digging for the Truth - History Channel) Josh seems to be the master of access) ... He'll think it's funny, but remind him that Jones is his roll model, and Hollywood's main roll model for the last 25 years. Suggest it may be too recent historically to be seen as Archaeology, ..but what if the search for the Grail started 25 years after it's disappearance....The trail would still have been fresh! If Raiders turns out to be the most popular motion picture of the first century of motion pictures, maybe archaeologists will be looking for the actual block 2,000 years from now, but Josh could make HIS move NOW! I'll bet the show would get the largest audience of any he's done. He could supplement the show with the whole documented history of the "digging" that's already been done in Indy Gear recreation. What a SHOW!

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:10 am

Well, it would get MY vote (and a time recording on my VCR!), but unless he gets to climb rocks, swim with sharks, wade through hip deep snow, ride a horse through a desert, etc., I don't think he'll get to excited with this idea. I mean, come one, he got the job because he's the CEO of a survival school!

Regards! Michaelson

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 1:43 pm

There is still some antechamber full of The Raiders Bolck in various sizes.

The thing is, HJ may well still have the block. The one used to block that gray hat in the HJ catalog. Nothing magical about that particular block, but is is different than the traditional fedora block, at least the American fedora block. Therein lies the Raiders look. Fedora

3thoubucks · Post by **3thoubucks** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:50 am

I believe what was "magical" about the Raiders block was that it has block formed bash indentations. I think the crown was roomy like that grey, but look at the front peak of the grey...it's very rounded (and thanks Michaelson), it's 9 or 10 yers older than the Raiders hat... I don't think it's bashes were block formed, like perhaps the bottom brown fedora's bashes were- the top bash in that one looks block formed, so there's a corner at the front peak. I think I got off the track with these "telescoping teardrop" crowns, like this Colly, and was on the right track with the Miller 256. The 256 has a Raiders type block formed top bash, (there's just too much taper everywhere.) .... I think a Josh encounter with the reticent Mr. Swales could be the most dangerous thing he's ever attempted. Tunisia is just about as wild as anywhere he goes... he could visit there and get dragged behind a truck.

Renderking Fisk · Post by **Renderking Fisk** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:47 am

crazylegsmurphy wrote:As a costume designer (judging from the few I have met) they basically have a look in mind, and they just grab stuff to make it work. I mean in the case of the hat, if they couldn't find a 30's style hat that looked like they wanted, she could have grabbed a cowboy hat and just shaped it 30's style...

I can usually tell when a movie is made that's shown on Turner Classic movies... the 1930's had taller crown fedoras and after 1941 they started to come down. 1950's had the micro brims.

jock123 · Post by **jock123** » Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:50 am

ScandinaviaJones said:

Old Burlington Street runs parallel to Saville Row. Not the same place... I believe the area is called Mayfair (Londoners, correct me if I'm wrong).

Again, this shows that not everything Nadoolman says is necessarily true.

Whilst cartographically and geographically spot on, SJ, “Saville Row” is also applied to the gentleman’s tailoring area of London, the bespoke tailoring industry of London in general and even to a quality of product, so it wouldn’t be thought unduly deceptive for someone to talk about a “Saville Row” suit or hat, which comes from one street over. “Mayfair” is also applicable to a good part of the west-end, including the Saville Row area, and the actual street.

It’s not uncommon here for this to happen; “Harley Street” is used to suggest private doctors and consultants, although there are many consulting rooms extending into neighbouring roads. People still use “Fleet Street” to refer to the newspaper industry, although that trade left for Wapping and other areas with a lot of fanfare in the Eighties…

I think we can let her off on this one.

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:17 pm

First of all, sorry if i redig this old topic, it was posted and talked about just before i registered in this wonderful forum.
With mr 3thoubuck's amazing theory i started to read more about what all of you already know (yeah i never really searched for The Truth about ROTLA hat before now) and i was shocked to discover that very few is known about the origin of the raiders hat. This topic was really interesting to read and i added some comments here and there
....

3thoubucks wrote:Thanks Michaelson. Do you know the term "Australiano" came from?

In Italian it means "australian", that's all

Shawnkara wrote:we may as well try to trace the bloodline of the exact kangaroo used in Ford's whip and make whips from his anchestors.

Fedora wrote:
Ah, now I understand!!! It was right under my nose all of the time as I have that pic saved from a few years ago. Here is the deal, in my opinion. The hat in the center is the McAlpine, as I can enlarge and read it. The original Raiders hat is at 8 o'clock, in gray. That is the block shape, no doubt in my mind. ... I have never been more certain in my life, after looking at this catalog page. I am convinced. Fedora

That's interesting, is it possible to know the name of the model at 8 o'clock?

No one found a better copy of the previous image i presume. Michaelson, i remember you had to dig into your garage searching for old HJ catalogues.. why are you still on the keyboard????

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:22 pm

It's the blue-gray one on the bottom left or 8 o'clock (20:00 hours).

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:24 pm

in this webpage of Swaine Adney http://www.swaineadeney.co.uk/bespoke_o ... adies_hats

are they joking?

Since the huge success of the films, we have had the pleasure of making dozens of Indy’s for the aficionados of the films. Each one is carefully cut by hand using the original patterns. Each size is ever so slightly tailored to keep the hat in proportion to the wearer’s hat size and each one hand rubbed to give it its unique shape. Every hat to this day is given the same unique attention as was given to that first one on that eventful day.

For what i know they badly threat all the fans which go there looking for the indy hat and they are not even able to reproduce the original shape!

Dakota Ellison wrote:It's the blue-gray one on the bottom left or 8 o'clock (20:00 hours).

Yeah i got that but i wish i could know the name of that hat

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:28 am

Swindiana wrote:
I find her description interesting: the crown was a bit too high? So we assume it had some sort of bash when they found it (or os this a false assumption?), but the crown was too high and they lowered to the Indy height. I find that amazing.
I've always assumed from hearing her saying it that they used the 'a little bit too high' as a feature for the final hat, the shape that they were looking for and that they didn't want it lower. Compared to other 80's movies featuring fedoras, the hat just seems a bit bigger than your standard shaped hat, unique in its appearance in that manner. You think?

Regards,
Swindiana

Swindy,

That is exactly the way that I always took her comments. I was going to post the same thing, but you beat me to it.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:18 pm

erri, I'm not sure I understand your question about wanting the name to the one at the 8 o'clock position. Each and everyone of those hats are Poets, and all are based on the standard hat (the large one in the middle of the page with the wide brim). They're ALL Poets, just different colors, bashes and brim widths, but all the same hat.

Oh, and I'm still digging through my boxes. Found some OTHER items I've been looking for, but not that catalog yet. I have more stuff out there than I remember!!!

Regards! Michaelson

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:29 pm

There all Poets? I just assumed that they were different hats. Check out the porkpie Poet at 10 o'clock! Old 3thou$ might just be on to something with his theory.

Perhaps they were out of open crown hats and Swales poped the bash out of a porkpie and stuck the Raiders bash in?

Feraud · Post by **Feraud** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:17 pm

Nice to revisit old topics.

J_Weaver wrote:Perhaps they were out of open crown hats and Swales poped the bash out of a porkpie and stuck the Raiders bash in?

I do not think this ever occured. Here is my thinking.. Nadoolman said the hat she was looking for was "a little bit too high". She wanted to create a distinct, identifiable look. Too high for an 80's fedora or a 30's lid is irrelevant. Would anyone ever look at a porkpie and think 'too high'? I seriously doubt it. If one is looking for a tall crown, you can find most any fedora with a taller crown than a porkpie to re-bash.
Is the conclusion we should assume is Nadoolman was looking for something "distinct", saw a porkpie and rebashed it into the higher crowned Indiana Jones fedora? Is is just me or does that make absolutely no sense?

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:01 am

I must confess that Fedora's post about the distressing causing the marks is most plausible. But the idea of the porkpie, etc is fun to talk about!

Erri · Post by **Erri** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:46 am

Michaelson wrote: Each and everyone of those hats are Poets

Ow i didn't know that. I thought they were different models, sorry

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:43 am

As far as I can see, only the 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock are named "The Poet". The middle one's a McAlpine. Pork Pie hat's calle "Pork Pie hat" and the top one is a Trilby of some kind.

Post by **Michaelson** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:53 pm

The McAlpine was the like the one that Indy Magnoli had stolen in New Zealand, as I recall. Heavier felt, but same styling. According to Mr. Swales of HJ, those are ALL Poets based hats on that page...just different styles. (A trilby is a short brimmed hat style, by the way, and made by a LOT of hat makers in England. A very popular hat there too!)

Regards! Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:47 pm

"Stolen?"

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:09 pm

Michaelson wrote:The McAlpine was the like the one that Indy Magnoli had stolen in New Zealand, as I recall. Heavier felt, but same styling. According to Mr. Swales of HJ, those are ALL Poets based hats on that page...just different styles. (A trilby is a short brimmed hat style, by the way, and made by a LOT of hat makers in England. A very popular hat there too!)

I see... so 'twas Swales who named them all "Poets". I always believed the "Poet" was a specific model, just like "McAlpine", not a base for the entire HJ line of hats - Swales' definition, if I'm reading this correctly, gives that impression.
The trilbies are indeed made by many British hatters. Hence my phrasing "Trilby of some kind", and that upper left hat looks very much like one. The trilbies are nowhere near as high-crowned as a "regular" fedora - it seem strange to me that the Poet would be a base for them.

Not questioning your input, Mark - it's Swales' statement I find extraordinary.

Fedora · Post by **Fedora** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:14 pm

Look at the back of each crown. All hats EXCEPT, the one at 8 o'clock appear to be the same block shape. The taper on the back side tells the tale. Of course, the telescope crown hat is hard to call, but the others look remarkably like the same block shape. Just different brim widths and a nuance in style jobs. But, the hat at 8 o'clock is a different animal. IMHO. Fedora