WHY is the jacket worn over the bag, and not vice versa?

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:33 am

I admit, I *think* I know the answer here, but as a new MKVII wearer, I'm having an issue getting used to this...

...why is it worn (Indy-accurately) under the jacket?

(If someone recalls a thread on this, let me know, I searched for several variations of 'jacket' 'over' 'strap'/'bag', and got bupkus.) Even money on whether it's Swindiana or VP collecting the pints on this round.

If I treat the bag like anything else (work bag, laptop bag, luggage, i.e., NOT part of my person), then it is an accessory that goes on AFTER the jacket. This makes more sense getting into the truck - toss the bag on the seat, leave the jacket on. If it's under, I'm taking the jacket off, then the bag, putting the jacket back on...

But if I treat it like essential stuff that DOESN'T COME off (like, say, a soldiers gearbelt, a toolbelt, a bat utility belt, a shoulder holster, etc. - something PART OF ME), then the jacket is an extra that goes on afterward, and even getting in the truck, that bag would be at my side. Even if it does get crunched in the door a wee bit.

I'm guessing the answer is that - for the character - this is an essential piece, and the jacket, although pretty dear, comes off depending on the weather, but the bag never does - it's his wallet, it's his utility belt.

And likewise, for the sake of the look of the movie - the jacket lines are unbunched and unbroken by wearing it over the bag.

If I'm right, then it depends on the mode of my day, right? If I'm going to the office, I'm not wearing that bag everywhere, so it's an extra. If I'm out hiking or at the zoo w/ the kids or something, it's going to STAY on, so it's essential equipment.

Have I missed something?

Commence mocking me and my man-purse.

Thanks,
J

Indiana Jess · Post by **Indiana Jess** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:39 am

I dunno all the reasons why, but it might be under the jacket to keep the strap from getting hung up on something like a branch. Just my two cents ... wait ... I have no sense.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:52 am

Indiana Jess wrote:I dunno all the reasons why, but it might be under the jacket to keep the strap from getting hung up on something like a branch. Just my two cents ... wait ... I have no sense.

Good point, we don't want it getting snagged on a branch, a post, a tank gun...oh, rats...nevermind.

EDIT: That's something that bugged me...wasn't his bag UNDER his jacket then? Good luck getting it off!

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:16 am

If you're in Cairo, you don't wanna be wearing your jacket in the day, but will at night... you always wanna keep your artifacts and such close at hand, but the jacket can come and go as needed.

or, if someone grabs you by the jacket, you can slip out of it and still keep your secret stuff.

It's really tricky to remove your jacket when the day's turned from chilly to sweltering when you're driving and there's a strap holding it on. I hate steering with my teeth, so it's easier and faster to whip off the jacket that way.

Plus you don't want them purse snatchers peeling that strap right off ya. the jacket protects the goods.

all that being said, I rarely wear the bag under the jacket. Gotta get used to it though, because it makes a lot more sense.

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:19 am

Indiana Jerry wrote:we don't want it getting snagged on a... tank gun...oh, rats...nevermind.

EDIT: That's something that bugged me...wasn't his bag UNDER his jacket then? Good luck getting it off!

What bugs me more, is that in order to have gotten it snagged at all, Indy'd have to have gone right to the end of the gun and then all the way back to the middle where he was hung up.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:20 am

Snakewhip_Sable wrote:
Indiana Jerry wrote:we don't want it getting snagged on a... tank gun...oh, rats...nevermind.

EDIT: That's something that bugged me...wasn't his bag UNDER his jacket then? Good luck getting it off!
What bugs me more, is that in order to have gotten it snagged at all, Indy'd have to have gone right to the end of the gun and then all the way back to the middle where he was hung up.

Hey, he was figuring it out as he went along.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:21 am

Snakewhip_Sable wrote:all that being said, I rarely wear the bag under the jacket. Gotta get used to it though, because it makes a lot more sense.

Hehehe...I was wondering what you'd say about this, because you'd pointed out before in your pics that your bag was over your jacket...so does my rationale for why you did that fit? When you were urban spelunking (forgot what you called it), was the jacket more essential than the bag?

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:44 am

That's a tough call, because the bag has the flashlights, spare batteries, water bottle and snack/granola bars, which are lifesaving, but the jacket keeps a fella warm and free from barb wire stabs and roadrash.

Something to keep me up at night, I guess.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 2:50 am

Snakewhip_Sable wrote:That's a tough call, because the bag has the flashlights, spare batteries, water bottle and snack/granola bars, which are lifesaving, but the jacket keeps a fella warm and free from barb wire stabs and roadrash.

Something to keep me up at night, I guess.

"Doc, I had that dream again..."
"The one where your bag strap is stuck on the gun barrel, and you realized you're wearing your jacket over it and so you're going to die?"
"That's the one..."

ij1936 · Post by **ij1936** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:19 am

With all the pick-pockets and purse stealers that were out there in the 30's it is much harder to steal from someone who has their bag wrapped around them and under a jacket or coat!

Havana · Post by **Havana** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:49 am

When traveling I always pack my shoulder bag and laptop bag under my jacket, even when it's quite hot. This prevents anyone from performing the classic "snatch and run" and also discourages pick pocketeers. In the Indy films, I think they decided to keep the bag under the jacket for appearance sake and also to keep it on during all the action. I mean it's hard enough to keep the hat on, Indy doesn't need to worry about the bag too.

Neolithic · Post by **Neolithic** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:54 am

I think it comes from the early Steranko designs for Indy.
Originally it looks as if it wasn't a bag strap but some kind of strap that didn't really serve any purpose but to look cool.

So I think when they came to make the costume for the film it was a case of just making what was close to the design and why not make it a little more practical than just having a belt around one's chest.

Alabama Jones · Post by **Alabama Jones** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:01 am

Heh, "Bat-Belt".

I may be wrong, but I don't think he wore the bag at all during the Raven scene in Nepal.

I Just wish my strap would hurry up and get here so I can wear my purse.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:56 am

In real life there are several goods points to wear the bag under the jacket. But when it comes to the movie I think it is just for looks. I've often wondered about this while hiking. If the bag is over the jacket it will effect the drape of the jacket. However, if the bag is under the jacket the jacket will drape naturally.

Dakota Ellison · Post by **Dakota Ellison** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:38 am

I'm guessing the answer is that - for the character - this is an essential piece, and the jacket, although pretty dear, comes off depending on the weather, but the bag never does - it's his wallet, it's his utility belt.

This is my thinking, too. What if Indy had to run further than he did with all those Hovito warriors chasing him. He could strip off the jacket without bothering with the bag.

Shawnkara · Post by **Shawnkara** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:01 pm

This has a very simple answer: it looks stupid over the jacket. Sure it's practical in real-life and easier to deal with but we're talking about a movie costume here. It's designed for the maximum heroic dynamic.

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:06 pm

If it's over your jacket it looks like a purse.

Indiana Jess · Post by **Indiana Jess** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:42 pm

zeus36 wrote:If it's over your jacket it looks like a purse.

Under the jacket it looks like a "man bag".

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:01 pm

Even money on whether it's Swindiana or VP collecting the pints on this round.

Hey, I do the pint-collecting around these parts!

But I don't know the answer to your question.

Try asking Swindiana or VP, they might know.

Do I get my pint now...?

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 11:01 pm

For creative inclusion of yourself first in line, sure. Swindy, VP, at ease.

Thanks for the answers, guys...nice to know I'm not the only one who's pondered this.

J

Swindiana · Post by **Swindiana** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:36 am

I did a search for pints... And found THIS thread!

Regards,
Swindiana

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:54 am

That's a tough call, because the bag has the flashlights, spare batteries, water bottle and snack/granola bars, which are lifesaving

Strange, I've never had my life saved by a granola bar before. You'll have to regale us with that story sometime... ;-)

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:25 pm

I'm envisioning a Granola bar raft in TofD...

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:53 pm

I thought it was common knowledge that if you don't eat you'll eventually die. Do I gotta spell everything out for you? It doesn't so much save a life as sustain and maintain it. If I weren't around to remind you to eat, it would look like a Jim Jones kool aid party cleanup in here, wouldn't it?!

As an added note, the foil wrapper from the eaten granola bar used with flashlight batteries can start a lifesaving campfire, and a rubberband and toothpick can be used as a makeshift bow and arrow to shoot guards and as a lockpick to escape your wrongful confinement in a prison cell.

Oh, Richard Dean Anderson, you crazy muther.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:56 pm

Aw, heck, Snake-man, just pull your 'man purse' off and hit the guards over the head with it!

Regards. Michaelson

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:58 pm

Masher! Fresh!

Like that?

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:21 pm

Just don't 'swivel' when you run away.

Regards. Michaelson

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:36 pm

Run away?! Are you kidding, I'd get all 'Ruth Buzzy' on the perp. Beat him into the sidewalk, try to make sure the metal disc on the MKVII catches skin and such.

There, I mentioned the MKVII, back on topic...

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:26 pm

I thought it was common knowledge that if you don't eat you'll eventually die. Do I gotta spell everything out for you? It doesn't so much save a life as sustain and maintain it. If I weren't around to remind you to eat, it would look like a Jim Jones kool aid party cleanup in here, wouldn't it?!

Geez, way to take a joke! Sorry if I offended anybody.

Bufflehead Jones · Post by **Bufflehead Jones** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:40 pm

Snakewhip_Sable wrote:I thought it was common knowledge that if you don't eat you'll eventually die. Do I gotta spell everything out for you? It doesn't so much save a life as sustain and maintain it. If I weren't around to remind you to eat, it would look like a Jim Jones kool aid party cleanup in here, wouldn't it?!

Obviously, you have never seen me eat. A granola bar would sustain and maintain me for about five minutes. Just long enough to start wondering where we were gonna go to eat.

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:58 pm

I was jokin' too, ya knuckleheads! C'mere, I'll give ya noogies.

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:08 pm

...then he'll hit you with his man purse!

Regards. Michaelson

Snakewhip_Sable · Post by **Snakewhip_Sable** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 6:48 pm

go Ruth Buzzy on ya's.

Serial Hero · Post by **Serial Hero** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:31 pm

Maybe, Indy wore the strap under his jacket to try and conceal the fact that he carried a purse.

ob1al · Post by **ob1al** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:32 pm

Hey!

Its a MAN purse!

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:38 pm

"WHY is the jacket worn over the bag, and not vice versa?"

Easy. The bag has no sleeves and the jacket has no carrying strap. 'Nuff said.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:57 pm

Scandinavia Jones wrote:"WHY is the jacket worn over the bag, and not vice versa?"

Easy. The bag has no sleeves and the jacket has no carrying strap. 'Nuff said.

hahahahaha

...okay, I think I finally got the 'definitive' answer. Thank you all for playing!

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:01 pm

P.S. Wore my man purse for the first time today - at a government conference. One of the younger airmen actually said, "Nice man-purse." Good thing he already owes me beer.

But the older military took a good long look at it, and thought it was pretty cool. They actually used the words 'vintage' and 'antique'.

(Although probably not old enough to be technically antique...I forget, is that 50 years, or 100?)

One guy even asked if I was using a rifle sling for a strap. These guys were SHARP.

Only one person thought I was a boy scout...

Serial Hero · Post by **Serial Hero** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:22 pm

(Although probably not old enough to be technically antique...I forget, is that 50 years, or 100?)

Michaelson should be able to clear that up.

rick5150 · Post by **rick5150** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 8:35 pm

The jacket would look goofy after a while with the strap causing a lot of distressing on one shoulder.

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:27 pm

Sorry for jumping to conclusions. Back to my writing.

Indiana Neri · Post by **Indiana Neri** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:14 pm

Lemme tell ya that I just recently got back from a weekend in NH, my friend who goes to Plymouth State U showed a bunch of us this cabin up the Apalician Trail. Anyways, I was in complete Indy-mode for this (believe you me, I got the laughs and snickers to proove it, lol), and naturally I had my bag under my jacket. I think having it underneath makes it so the bag doesnt want to slip off your shoulder when you hike up a mountain trail. In the past I've had camera bags over my shoulder, over a jacket and they tend to slip. To me, having the bag under the jacket makes things a bit easier....dont forget that Indy did a lot of walking/hiking in the movies. He's rarely seen in a vehicle in his "fight-clothes". And to clear up a previous point, Indy does NOT wear the bag in the Raven Bar sceens (I wonder why?). Just a few observations for ya.

Indy N.

Indiana Texas-girl · Post by **Indiana Texas-girl** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:40 pm

I find a "murse" to be to sizzlin' hot on a guy...well, okay only if the guy has Indygear on and the murse happens to be an Indy murse.

Indiana Jess · Post by **Indiana Jess** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:16 am

rick5150 wrote:The jacket would look goofy after a while with the strap causing a lot of distressing on one shoulder.

I use saddlebags as my briefcase. The shoulder of my old leather jacket that I carry it on is a little darker than the other. but I guess it's all part of the natural distressing process called "the daily grind".

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 6:30 am

I have a theory.

Maybe if the bag was worn over the jacket, the strap and buckle would eventually cut into or wear on the jacket over time.

VancouverVic · Post by **VancouverVic** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:12 pm

I have to agree with the idea of uneven distressing on the jacket.

This habit does lead to a minor continuity goof in LC, when Indy and Dad escape from the castle. In one shot, Indy collects his bag and Dad's satchel and slings the bag over his shoulder, over the jacket. In the next shot, the bag is worn underneath the jacket.

J_Weaver · Post by **J_Weaver** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:35 pm

Welcome to COW!

I agree that one shoulder would become more distressed than the other. However, the thing about natural distressing is that it IS uneven. I think that the reason that it is worn under the jacket in the movie is looks. Wearing the bag under the jacket allows the jacket to drape naturally.

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:01 am

And here I thought I'd really be starting another dead thread. Hunh. Okay, appreciate all the input!

Man-purse got worn around the LA Zoo today - emminently useful, and almost bottomless! (I checked for a big hole, but no dice, it really holds a lot of stuff!) Now I know why so many of the wives/girlfriends steal them...my wife actually stopped looking at it so silly for a while, too...

LA weather is getting TOO HOT for the Wested - even the lamb - so I'm going to be Cairo for a long time now. And pray for rain...

J

zeus36 · Post by **zeus36** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:09 am

Neolithic wrote:I think it comes from the early Steranko designs for Indy.
Originally it looks as if it wasn't a bag strap but some kind of strap that didn't really serve any purpose but to look cool.

So I think when they came to make the costume for the film it was a case of just making what was close to the design and why not make it a little more practical than just having a belt around one's chest.

I think Neolithic is on the right track here. The strap in the illustrations does serve a purpose however:

It appears to be a carry over of the Sam Brown belt design. From the Web:

"Who was Sam Browne?
The belt worn by so many officers is named after British General Sir Samuel Browne (1824-1901). It is described by Webster's as "a belt with a shoulder strap running diagonally across the chest, worn as part of a military or police uniform." Common legend has it that the belt was designed by Browne after his left arm was severed during battle in India. The original strap is said to have helped to stabilize the belt for the one-handed drawing of a saber and also may have helped to take weight off the hips. "

If you look at the illustrations, you'll see the strap attaches to the left side of the leather or the pistol belt, in this case a khaki cotton 2 inch military web belt. It sort of looks like the shoulder strap is attached to the leather belt, but due to the leather belt running thru the belt loops on the pants, I believe it is attaching to the web belt just aft of the .45 magazine pouch. That is a tough call since it would seem that a leather strap would afix to a leather belt.

I'm thinking that it was drawn that way to utilize the whip which would be carried on the left, non-gun side.

Canyon · Post by **Canyon** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 4:13 pm

VancouverVic, welcome to Club Obi Wan!