Webley MKVI grip. What is really accurate?

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:41 am

I visited the Imperial War Museum in London last Friday and found this gorgeous Webley on display. When I saw it, I thought that I would have to get a good shot of it so that I could share it with everybody. As the days passed, I kept thinking about that Webley and the nice grip that it had. I took another look at the grips shown on the Indy-gear handguns section and saw that they had one with entirely different grips.

Last night I did some focused LC “research” by watching the DVD carefully, often times, pausing the film frame by frame in hopes of getting a glimpse of the grip used in the film. Unfortunately, I was unable to find even one single view.

I am curious if Indy-gear’s Webley photos are of the actual props or a photograph of another one, unaffiliated with the film.

Here is photo of the other grip style:

Does anyone have any insight into this quandary? I suppose that since you are unable to discern it from the film, that it could not be wrong either way. I am a little partial to the grips with the Webley lettering, but oh well. In lieu of screen accuracy, I would be happy enough just to have one in my collection.

Thanks!

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:52 am

There were several Webley's used in LC. There was even an officer's 'birds head' grip version used in the last scene (you can plainly see it when Indy surrenders the gun, butt first, to the German soldier). The standard grip issued was the one you photographed at the Military museum, and your first photo. The second looks like a walnut replacment grip, as Webley usually had their name plainly embossed on their gun grips, regardless of class or size. Many times they were replaced at the factory between service assignments, and if the original rubber grips were cracked or broken, these wood grips were substituted.

Funny, but your first photo looks like a Mk IV to me, rather than a MkVI. The IV was a .38, where the VI was a .455 (bigger gun). That could also explain the difference in appearance to you. They shared the same outlines, but were different sizes.

Regards. Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:07 pm

I agree with you, Michaelson, it does look like a MK IV in the top picture. I didn't realize they used several Webleys in LC, though!

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:09 pm

The one on the beach and the one in the Knight's cave were completely different revolvers and models. Regards. Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:16 pm

Different revolver as in "non Webley?" Do you know what make and model it is?

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:25 pm

No, they were both Webley MkVI's....just different butt frames. Regards. Michaelson

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:09 pm

As I look at the cylinders, I can see that the museum piece has one that is slightly shorter than the bottom MK VI model. I was swept away by the first Webley because the barrel length seemed very close, if not spot on with the normal barrel length of the MK VI.

I had seen some MK IVs in the past with shorter barrels and have thought that this was standard to the model.

I can't imagine why the LC crew would go to the trouble of giving him several different Webleys for use throughout the film. It is such a photogenic handgun in the first place. If I had no knowledge of its use in the LC, I would still want one.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:16 pm

This is slightly off-topic but, does anyone know what this .45 half moon chips thing is? I know that these Webley MKVIs were originally issued as .455 but later converted to .45 ACP. I am still confused about the chips thing.

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 1:31 pm

The .45 ACP is a rimless cartridge. It was developed for feed into a magazine of a .45 semiautomatic pistol. The .455 was a rimmed cartridge, and it sat on a shoulder inside the revolver cylinder chamber. When the revolver was modified for use with the .45 ACP, the .45 required something to hold it in place on the 'shoulder' of the cylinder, as if just put in the gun, it would literally fall clear through the chamber. The 'half moon' and 'full moon' clip was devised. It was a piece of wire that could hold up to 3 rounds, and could be dropped into the cylinder for loading. The wire would sit on the shoulder of the cylinder, allowing for easier and faster reloading of the gun, as you would be dropping in 3 rounds at a time. A 'full moon' clip held all 6 rounds in one round wire 'clip'. It's sort of like todays 'speed loader', but a much simpler design. Hope I didn't muddy the water up more for you.

Regards. Michaelson

Scandinavia Jones · Post by **Scandinavia Jones** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:04 pm

What Michaelson said. Here's a fullmoonclip:

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:07 pm

THANK you! I couldn't find any quick examples to show him.

Regards. Michaelson

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:59 pm

I need to get one of those. I ordered one from a local gunsmith last year, paid him $5.00 without getting a receipt, and haven't heard from him since. :evil:

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:04 pm

I think I'd be paying the man a visit.

Regards. Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:26 pm

Michaelson wrote:No, they were both Webley MkVI's....just different butt frames. Regards. Michaelson

That's what I thought. I just got confused for a second. Oh, and you said "butt."

bink

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:58 pm

I considered paying him a visit, but he probably wouldn't remember me. And this is the same guy that I brought my Webley to have inspected!

Post by **Michaelson** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:02 pm

That may be your edge. Not that many Webley's get carried into a mans gunshop these days, so it may jog his memory. I suggest you give it a try! Regards. Michaelson

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:45 pm

binkmeisterRick wrote:
Michaelson wrote:No, they were both Webley MkVI's....just different butt frames. Regards. Michaelson
That's what I thought. I just got confused for a second. Oh, and you said "butt."

bink

Bink, I thought you promised not to make a big deal out of Michaelson's butt anymore.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Sat Jan 22, 2005 4:27 pm

Well, it IS screen accurate...

Post by **Michaelson** » Mon Jan 24, 2005 11:11 am

Regards. Michaelson

Indiana Jerry · Post by **Indiana Jerry** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 12:37 am

You think that's natural distressing, or did he intentionally sit on it a lot?

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:52 am

I don't think Michaelson would've artificially distressed it in any way, though I'm sure his wife kicking him from time to time probably helped the process.

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:19 am

Not true, bink. That would require me getting up out of a chair, which I rarely do.

Regards. Michaelson

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 11:46 am

Michaelson wrote:Not true, bink. That would require me getting up out of a chair, which I rarely do. Regards. Michaelson

Of course not, because that's when she kicks you!

ANYHOW, somewhat back on topic, did the MkVI really have the Webley labeled grips on them as original issue? I've never seen a MkVI with anything other than the checkered grips. The MkIV's I've seen usually have these grips, but again, I've never seen them on a MkVI.

bink

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:34 pm

I used to think that the two styles of grip were common for the MKVI but I have since begun to think that they may have been restricted to certain models. I have seen lots of MKVIs and I am pretty certain that I have never seen it with a "Webley" logo. I could be wrong though.

I am undecided as to which one I like better. Both are nice, but the logo is fairly nifty.

I bought the Webley in the bottom picture posted at the top of this thread. I should have it by the end of the week. I can't wait to shoot it. It will be a blast, I just know it.

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:36 pm

My personal preference is the the grip on the one you purchased. MUCH easier to hold when firing, and when wet, not slick like the Webley marked version. I've owned and shot both types, and the checkered versions (your gun) is in my opinion the best of the two. Congratulations on your purchase!! High regards. Michaelson

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:40 pm

Congrats from another Webley owner! They are very sweet guns: http://www.geocities.com/pangaeascape/webley.html

Post by **Michaelson** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 1:43 pm

Of COURSE that would HAVE come from yet ANOTHER happy Webley MkVI owner!

High regards. Michaelson

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:09 pm

Whipwarrior, is that your Webley? It is gorgeous!

The original serial numbers on my Webley were removed and reissued a new one after WWI.

My biggest wonder is about the half-moon chips. Is that something that most people have to obtain for their converted 45s? If mine comes without one, I am wondering how easy it will be to find some. I would like to shoot it before I take off for a big trip next week.

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 12:16 pm

Actually, they're not that scarce, if you know where to look. A lot of reproductions are being made, so you may want to do a websearch. Regards. Michaelson

whipwarrior · Post by **whipwarrior** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

Yeah, that's my Webley. Surprisingly, it ended up being the most expensive part of my Indygear. I'm not really a gun person, so it's definitely the last one I'll ever buy. I would like to shoot it someday, though!

Post by **Michaelson** » Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:11 pm

Whip, your revolver is a fine example of the model. You'll surprised how easy it shoots, as it's weight frame vs. the short .455 round was a great match for target work. The .45 ACP conversion really wasn't, as the .45 rattles around a bit (being different in caliber), so accuracy will never be achieved. Close enough, but no tack driver. High regards. Michaelson

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:33 am

Does anyone know how easy it is to obtain .455 ammo?

If it is as easy as I would prefer, it would be worth it to get a non-converted Webley MKVI. Even though, it wouldn't be entirely accurate to the film.

I keep thinking that it will be a pain to deal with the half-moon chips and all that.

binkmeisterRick · Post by **binkmeisterRick** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:55 am

I believe a few companies are making .455 ammo as a specialty item these days, though the price for a box of rounds is pretty expensive. I thought I saw a box of 50 rounds priced at over 40 bucks not so long ago. I have an 1895 Russian Nagant service revolver that I'd love to shoot, but the ammo is pretty pricey for that one, too. (And no, I don't want the conversion barrel. I've heard way too many bad things abbout it to make it worth the while.

)

bink

Post by **Michaelson** » Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:48 pm

So, bink, you have a 'Nagant' revolver? I have a Mosin-Nagant model 1944 7.62x54R carbine myself. LOTS easier to get ammo for that your revolver. MAN that's one weird caliber!!

Last I remember, Old West Scrounger had the .455 ammo. You might want to do a search under that name. If I recall, they weren't to bad, price wise. Lot's cheaper than the $40 you've been payin, bink!

Regards. Michaelson